Fathering Autism #51 We'll do us, you do you, if you get sick, oh well boo-hoo!

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He’s such a dick. He replied to a comment I made on one of their Tiktoks, Abbie asking for chicken nuggets with her iPad. I asked why everything is about food with them, and why when they add a new word, it’s almost always food. Ass is saying all the ones that are not food. (Which is good) but pretty sure he just added most of those VERY recently. Either bc Brandy said something, or from reading people’s comments (for months and months) here about the lack of words on her iPad. Edit: I now see he said “recently” at the end. That’s not something to be proud about.
 

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So I am being very simplistic about ABA, but the way I see it is that is one method with proven success to get through to and teach autistic children. Are there no other ways? Rewarding with food seems no better than inducing a Pavlovian response. Surely other reward systems have been tried? I let those of you who have experience answer this rather complex question. I just feel that with Abbie in particular it has turned into an obsession for food which her parents reinforce due to their own food obsessive problems. I just know she is going to become an unwieldy, uncontrollable obese adult and that is scary for all concerned,
It is not Pavlovian, as that is classic conditioning and ABA is firmly based in operant conditioning. And yes, there are other reward systems. Abbies school tried to install a token system to teach delayed gratification for example. There are also attempts to make finishing the project the reinforcer. There are some issues with that, as breaking everything down into reinforcers/punishments is selling human characteristics short. and reinforcing something that the person liked doing anyway actually takes away the joy and makes the person less likely to do it. There is also overdepndence on prompts/reinforcers (forgetting to feel a sense of accomplishment without outside validation) and a lack of explanation/proper response to "stalling"/lack of progress/ disregarding therapy fatigue.
Yes, Abbies dependenc on food and getting it for every little thing is an issue. Same with the "good job". It is inconsistent and not used properly and has lost any meaning. And you are right, she is gaining quite a bit of weight right now which in turn makes her hardert to control. Her parents weighing the same as a schoolbus and being less mobile doesn't help.
 
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For the newbies....
In the need to know video.....around the 2:30 mark, Ass says anyone who videos someone who is mentally challenged is a bully and their videos should not be monetized. Did I misunderstand that part?
 
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I am not completely pro ABA, but I am also not completely against it. I didn't have any support network growing up (apart from beatings and locking me in a cupboard until I just did what I was told). I think it can be useful tool for some things, but i don't think that it should be used exclusively or for excessive amounts of time (think multiple hours a day every day). I was never lazy and had an intrinsic drive to achieve and learn things, so maybe thats why I never came in contact with it.
I have an issue with a lot of those Autism self advocacy groups (like the Autism inclusivity group on Facebook), to be perfectly honest. The general consensus is usually that any therapy is bad, because "just let them be their true selves". Autism is not a disorder (The DSM, ICD and scientific community would beg to differ here) and basically that society should do everything to acommodate people with autism (do I even have to explain why this is a bullshit sentiment?). Add some serious groupthink (think leghumpers but worse), dogpiling everyone who even slightly deviates (I have personal experience with that) and unwillingness to compromise and you have a perfect echo chamber....
I dont understand your last paragraph - please elaborate.

It is not Pavlovian, as that is classic conditioning and ABA is firmly based in operant conditioning. And yes, there are other reward systems. Abbies school tried to install a token system to teach delayed gratification for example. There are also attempts to make finishing the project the reinforcer. There are some issues with that, as breaking everything down into reinforcers/punishments is selling human characteristics short. and reinforcing something that the person liked doing anyway actually takes away the joy and makes the person less likely to do it. There is also overdepndence on prompts/reinforcers (forgetting to feel a sense of accomplishment without outside validation) and a lack of explanation/proper response to "stalling"/lack of progress/ disregarding therapy fatigue.
Yes, Abbies dependenc on food and getting it for every little thing is an issue. Same with the "good job". It is inconsistent and not used properly and has lost any meaning. And you are right, she is gaining quite a bit of weight right now which in turn makes her hardert to control. Her parents weighing the same as a schoolbus and being less mobile doesn't help.
So is her general lack of performance due to her obviously severe intellectual deficit? I would have thought so. She is in my opinion incapable of any type of logical thought processes bar those of obtaining food which they are reinforcing every day. A completely lost cause which I cannot see the point of sending her to a specialist school. Another truly autistic child with a higher IQ would benefit in her place. Harsh but stark reality.
 
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He’s such a dick. He replied to a comment I made on one of their Tiktoks, Abbie asking for chicken nuggets with her iPad. I asked why everything is about food with them, and why when they add a new word, it’s almost always food. Ass is saying all the ones that are not food. (Which is good) but pretty sure he just added most of those VERY recently. Either bc Brandy said something, or from reading people’s comments (for months and months) here about the lack of words on her iPad. Edit: I now see he said “recently” at the end. That’s not something to be proud about.
Lol Becca just recently added pool and he requested she move it to a certain category. He pissed me off in that moment. You didn’t care pool was on her iPad but since someone else added it, you still had to put your two sense in on where it should go. He has control issues and I bet it’s worse when the cam is off.
 
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So I am being very simplistic about ABA, but the way I see it is that is one method with proven success to get through to and teach autistic children. Are there no other ways? Rewarding with food seems no better than inducing a Pavlovian response. Surely other reward systems have been tried? I let those of you who have experience answer this rather complex question. I just feel that with Abbie in particular it has turned into an obsession for food which her parents reinforce due to their own food obsessive problems. I just know she is going to become an unwieldy, uncontrollable obese adult and that is scary for all concerned,
I am sure there are numerous ways to reward more effectively. Im not autistic and has never been an area I have worked.
But what annoys me...and anyone with a psychology background should be annoyed about is that ABA is not just for autism and the methods vary. Parents, employers, teachers use ABA/Behavoiral Mod every day. And the "leads to PTSD" argument. Guess what method of treatment is commonly used to treat PTSD? ABA. LOL.
Im ok if someone doesnt care for it but I feel only one side is represented here a lot of the time.
And Salty I agree. Even if A&P could do so many things so much better....no one can live their life around what Abbie wants...its beyond ridiculous. Her needs are no more important than anyone elses, even though Asa thinks she is god-like lol
 
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I dont understand your last paragraph - please elaborate.
What don't you understand? I was merely saying that there are issues with autism self advocacy groups. I was responding to @RocketQueen, who in turn was responding to an article hat I am unfamiliar with, but - judged by it's tone and the blanket condemnation of ABA - was published by one of those groups/sites.
 
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Unfortunately those items will not satisfy someone with PICA.

I have had PICA my entire life, like Abbie. It is actually a bit more complicated than a lot (not saying you) of people think. It isnt about "texture" at all. It is a literal craving for a non-edible item. Texture can be a factor, some people seek out their item along with texture, but it is not the dominant issue.
The cause/effect of PICA has been discussed, studied and disputed for years. Some studies believe it is strictly a result of the body's inability to absorb certain nutrients (like Iron) which cause the odd cravings. Other studies show that it is actually PICA itself that cause the nutrient deficit, because the ingestion on non-food items are hindering digestion and the body's ability to absorb proper food items. Kind of a which came first? The chicken or the egg scenario.

Its also very very common in people with DD, ADHD, and certain mental illness like schizophrenia. Its considered a Eating Disorder but now studies are leaning toward PICA actually being an OCD, and treatments vary from medicinal to behavior modification. I had both. I mentioned before that I had severe ADHD as a child. Severe. This was in the mid-70's...treatment was new, meds were new, and ADHD was simply "Hyperactivity" then. I spent my elementary years in a windowless room one on one with an therapist because even though my IQ tested well above grade level, I was deemed behaviorally unteachable. I was the first child in my county to take Ritalin, and my mother had to challenge the school board to allow me to take a dose at school. By age 7, my behaviors caused my parents to divorce, my brothers hated me, my mother was in therapy, and I damaged our home and belongings at a relentless pace. And the PICA. I craved and ate chalk, ice, dirt, cigarette ashes, Play-Doh...you name it. Even though ABA eliminated my horrible and unsafe behavior by my early teens, and I began to thrive in school and socially....here I am, just turned 50, and the PICA remains. I have Iron infusions every 12 weeks and also take oral supplements daily. Yet I still crave chalk. I eat Tums like candy, or drink Milk of Mag, because they taste like chalk and will not harm me.

Sorry so long. Just wanted to point out how PICA can stand alone as a sole disorder, or be a comorbidity to many others. (There are also significant cultural and socioeconomic factors that are super interesting, but I digress. :)) I have always been truly bothered that they talk about her PICA, but I have never ONCE heard them address how they are working toward (or had in the past) treatment options. Its really unpleasant guys. I joke about it myself, that I have to stop myself from literally licking my own ashtray when I have an episode...but how can Abbie express, or even substitute an item for a need that she cannot communicate, and parents who shrug and giggle it off? I have never said this before (due to the length of all this) but as someone who has lived my life with PICA- I 100% believe that at least half of the time that she is signing for "food" she is trying to communicate that unmet craving and need. It makes me sad. Again, this isnt like craving a donut. It is overpowering and uncomfortable. :(
Sorry Im kinda late commenting on this I have been playing catch up. Thank you for writing this out! It's hard for people who don't have PICA to fully understand what that means. I now have a better understanding of how much of struggle it really is for people. You are amazing to have overcome all that you have!
 
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I know I quite like that one myself. There used to be a cooking program with two older ladies ( posh ) and they really indulged themselves with the ingredients, it was called ‘ two fat ladies ‘ I loved them both, real British eccentrics and one of them used to say it. I suppose the show will be on google somewhere.
I used to watch Two Fat Ladies when I was younger and it was interesting to watch. It's a shame they both passed away.
 
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Without revealing too much, I have had a message from the wonderful Torrie Williamson who was giving Pig a hard time on Lipshit Mama. She is not yet a member here but reads what we say. She has now been blocked (what a surprise!) But says she will return under another name to wreak havoc. Good on her.
She has returned! Check out her comments on Lipshit Nonmama , if they haven't been deleted.
 
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So I am being very simplistic about ABA, but the way I see it is that is one method with proven success to get through to and teach autistic children. Are there no other ways? Rewarding with food seems no better than inducing a Pavlovian response. Surely other reward systems have been tried? I let those of you who have experience answer this rather complex question. I just feel that with Abbie in particular it has turned into an obsession for food which her parents reinforce due to their own food obsessive problems. I just know she is going to become an unwieldy, uncontrollable obese adult and that is scary for all concerned,
ABA is Abusive Imposter Training and can cause PTSD. I am speaking as an autistic person. Behaviour is communication and it teaches autistic kids that their feelings don't matter and their body doesn't belong to them. It also trains them to be more neurotypical so that they can "fit in" to society. Autistic people need to be themselves so that they can thrive and they need to have their needs met.

Here's an article for you to look at: https://neuroclastic.com/2019/03/28/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/
 
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Time for a new thread. I am going to create a new one and I am going to use the title by @Hotographer512, if that's okay.
I might have to shorten the title a little.

ABA is Abusive Imposter Training and can cause PTSD. I am speaking as an autistic person. Behaviour is communication and it teaches autistic kids that their feelings don't matter and their body doesn't belong to them. It also trains them to be more neurotypical so that they can "fit in" to society. Autistic people need to be themselves so that they can thrive and they need to have their needs met.

Here's an article for you to look at: https://neuroclastic.com/2019/03/28/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/
Neuroclastic is not an unbiased source. Can I ask: Do you have any personal experience with ABA? You seem to be very adamant to hate it and you always use the same phrases why that is. Just being autistic isn't going to cut it, because so am I and I am firmly in the middle of the argument.
You also say that autistic people need to be themselves and not trained to fit into society. But what if them being themselves clashes with the rest of society? Or with other people with other disabilities? Abbies honking was a topic yesterday. How far is society required to move and how far is the autistic community willing to move?
 
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ABA is Abusive Imposter Training and can cause PTSD. I am speaking as an autistic person. Behaviour is communication and it teaches autistic kids that their feelings don't matter and their body doesn't belong to them. It also trains them to be more neurotypical so that they can "fit in" to society. Autistic people need to be themselves so that they can thrive and they need to have their needs met.

Here's an article for you to look at: https://neuroclastic.com/2019/03/28/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/
Here is the thing, @ABAPQueen1995 , you are not the only autistic person or parent to an autistic child. I see you have your views about ABA, but to completely discredit others who say it has helped them or their child is bugging me. What do you suppose is the way to treat ND kids that doesn't allow them to offer an excuse of "well, I am autistic, so it's okay?
 
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Time for a new thread. I am going to create a new one and I am going to use the title by @Hotographer512, if that's okay.
I might have to shorten the title a little.


Neuroclastic is not an unbiased source. Can I ask: Do you have any personal experience with ABA? You seem to be very adamant to hate it and you always use the same phrases why that is. Just being autistic isn't going to cut it, because so am I and I am firmly in the middle of the argument.
You also say that autistic people need to be themselves and not trained to fit into society. But what if them being themselves clashes with the rest of society? Or with other people with other disabilities? Abbies honking was a topic yesterday. How far is society required to move and how far is the autistic community willing to move?
there was another one that had more likes

Eatin, Drinkin, Poppin Pills, Pigcilla’s comin for all the boys.
This is the one I saw
 
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there was another one that had more likes


This is the one I saw
thanks. Who posted it? I can still change the title as I am still writing the recap.
Edit:Nevermind, I saw it. The screen wasn't loading quick enough.
 
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Isaiahs views are also trending down from his first video. He also got a bump up from the comming home video.. and would have been even higher if they showed Abbie on the thumbnail instead of P. I'm sure this "surprise visit" was well planned out for content and a bump in views for both channels.

FA one was of course click bait as it left us thinking he possibly came home because of COVID and school shut down .. and not a silly surprise after only being gone a couple of weeks.

Were Isaiah and Summer really needed at CampIamspecial.. or did they go to record for content? They were floaters..
They must really dope Abby up to make her sleep. The night Isaiah came home, everyone was so loud right next to her bedroom and she didn't wake up.

there was another one that had more likes


This is the one I saw
Eatin' drinkin' buying all the toys
Look out Pig is comin' for ya boys!
 
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Here is the thing, @ABAPQueen1995 , you are not the only autistic person or parent to an autistic child. I see you have your views about ABA, but to completely discredit others who say it has helped them or their child is bugging me. What do you suppose is the way to treat ND kids that doesn't allow them to offer an excuse of "well, I am autistic, so it's okay?
I don't mean to upset anyone on here. I know some behaviours are not ok but you need to look at what is triggering these behaviours and why they're behaving a certain way so that their needs can be met.
 
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