TH forfeited any rights to Arthur went he was complicit in his murder. Olivia is still his mother and should have the final say about the funeral arrangements. The Hughes family needs to back off, they have caused too many problems already.
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Schools were never closed to children at risk of harm, were they?
That would be amazing! I had no idea such scheme existed. I am very upset about particularly TH sentence as it is too lenient. I think TH did everything he could to weaken Arthur and encourage ET so that in turn she could kill him with his "permission" as he couldn't bring himself to do it.
Our school did well being checks. Both online by asking the child to make the self seen on google class. and also home visits where they would ask the child to come out. it wasn’t great but they would notice a child loosing weight etc. We were also contacted weekly by primary school asking if we needed anything , food, laptops stationery
No but it was still parents choice wether to send them or not.
What the hell is all that? "she didnt give a 2nd thought to Arthur, taking drugs, staying in an abusive relationship" is that victim blaming I detect? Are you blaming a battered woman for staying with an abusive partner because her son died? Have you read the case on his mum? He beat her up and raped her a few times, she had defensive wounds on her body where they were obvs scrapping and she tried to fight back, grabbed the knife and stabbed him in the leg. What was she supposed to do? Let him kill her? Her and Arthur would have been fudged either way - her winding up dead and him ending up with his dad, or her ending up in prison and him ending up with his dad.
What has Joanne Hughes been saying about her son - someone mentioned previously that she’s burying her head in the sand over her son?
He wasn’t classed as risk of harm though as ss didn’t have him flagged. In the first lockdown vulnerable children were still actively encouraged to keep children at home due to covid. I only got a phone call twice the entire first lockdown, no one would have any idea what was going on at home.
I havent read the whole of this thread because my eyes cant handle it, but I am good friends with a girl who used to grow up with ET. They were neighbours. We were talking about it yesterday after the sentencing and she was saying that ET has always been trouble. She spread lies around the estate saying someone else was her dad and caused loads of trouble, she would get boyfriends - have their babies to keep them, then hurt herself when they tried to leave, or go out, or do anything she didnt want them to do. She had her first lot of kids took off her when she threw herself off the multi-story car park, then met someone else, had kids with them and got to keep them. I've never met her but she's local and theres always that debate of nature vs nurture... I think she's just broken. She's not wired right because she's been trouble from the start!
I did wonder if this would happen and I think this may actually open a can of worms,
As I have previously said, I thought she would be looking at between 35-40 years, as I was sure the judge would class the murder as sadistic, which attracts a starting point of 30 years, with more time added for all the aggravating factors.
Here's what he said in his sentencing remarks:
"I judge this to be a case of particularly high seriousness and thus one with a starting point of 30 years. Although, save for the element of sadism, it does not fit into one of the examples of a murder of particularly high seriousness as set out in the code, it is a matter for the sentencing judge to decide whether any case is properly so described. The killing, coupled with the persistent and repeated cruelty which preceded it leads me to the conclusion I have reached. Many of the aggravating features have already been factored into my reaching my conclusion as to the starting point and I take care not to double count those features. However, there are further aggravating factors that I must take into account at this stage, namely the gross breach of trust, Arthur's age and vulnerability, and your lies to conceal your conduct. Against that I set the fact that you were effectively of good character and that, while you were constantly cruel to Arthur, I cannot find that his death was premeditated. I can only safely conclude that you formed your intent to kill him shortly before your final assault on him. I accept that your time in custody will be hard and that you pose a real suicide risk. Weighing up these factors the minimum term in your case will be one of 29 years"
So, he's basically saying it doesn't really fit into the criteria set out for the 30 year starting point, as there was only a bit of sadism, but it's down to him and he's making an exception really (much like the judge did in Wayne Couzens case so he could make a whole life order)
And some of the aggravating factors, that I thought would increase the term beyond 30 years, he's already had to take them into consideration in order to get him over the line to rule the case as particularly high seriousness. There are extra ones though, that he has detailed, which I reckon would take us up to around 32/33 years.
We didn't hear the mitigation her defence presented and there doesn't seem to be a lot mentioned in his sentencing remarks - lack of premeditation, previous good character, she'll have a tough time in prison and will continue to be a suicide risk. So I'm guessing he's taken three years off for all that thus arriving at 29 years.
His sentence I have no issue with. It was more than I was expecting. Christ, that oxygen thief Mick Philpott only got fifteen years on a manslaughter verdict and he (indirectly) killed six of his own kids and they'd probably all had a tit life. There's not really a lot a judge can do with a manslaughter verdict - that's on the jury. Same as with the sentencing in PC Andrew Harper's case. And I'm not criticising the jury at all - it was the right verdict for him, in my opinion. He clearly was not there when the fatal blows were struck. Incidentally, it was the right verdict in PC Harper's case too, no matter how much that pains me to say that, given that those particular defendants will wear killing a policeman like a badge of honour.
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I personally knew Emma, she was the year above me in school, she’s always been odd and evil
In school she cried out for attention.
I remember bumping into her over the shops, she had her daughter with her who I knew from being over her Facebook then a little boy, I asked who’s it was as she hadn’t mentioned having a younger son and she told me it was her son but he never got a mention it’s like he didn’t exist but her daughter was the apple of her eye. (she can be over heard in one of the voice recordings online that she would cuddle Arthur)
I knew she had met Tom but I didn’t know she had a step son either and she didn’t see her older 2 boys so I wonder if she had deep issues about boys, she clearly hated Arthur.
I think death would be the easy way out
for Emma. She tried to commit suicide by jumping off the local car park after a dispute trying to see her older
Lads but there was a reason she couldn’t.
She would want that, she’s tried multiple times but she should be made to live, a long suffering life where she’s tortured every single day and not let her escape.
dear prisoners of
HMP Peterborough please lace every
Meal with salt.
Make her live a living hell
She don’t deserve a single second of happiness ever again.
In school she cried out for attention.
I remember bumping into her over the shops, she had her daughter with her who I knew from being over her Facebook then a little boy, I asked who’s it was as she hadn’t mentioned having a younger son and she told me it was her son but he never got a mention it’s like he didn’t exist but her daughter was the apple of her eye. (she can be over heard in one of the voice recordings online that she would cuddle Arthur)
I knew she had met Tom but I didn’t know she had a step son either and she didn’t see her older 2 boys so I wonder if she had deep issues about boys, she clearly hated Arthur.
I think death would be the easy way out
for Emma. She tried to commit suicide by jumping off the local car park after a dispute trying to see her older
Lads but there was a reason she couldn’t.
She would want that, she’s tried multiple times but she should be made to live, a long suffering life where she’s tortured every single day and not let her escape.
dear prisoners of
HMP Peterborough please lace every
Meal with salt.
Make her live a living hell
She don’t deserve a single second of happiness ever again.
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I don’t see how ET having a hard time in prison and being a suicide risk has anything to do with the case. Women going into prison for petty theft can have a hard time and feel they can’t cope and be suicide risks during their sentence I doubt they get any time knocked off their sentence. Also, ex heroin addict here 
and victim of child abuse and child SA (my mother has never drank or taken drugs in her life), I know of couples in high reputable careers have rife hidden heroin addictions and you’d know none the wiser and their children looked after very well. We only hear of the ‘bad’ addicts where when you’re in the game yourself it’s not how it is. Addiction doesn’t discriminate nor dictate the love for your child. Olivia stabbed her partner in the leg. If not she probably would have been killed herself.
and victim of child abuse and child SA (my mother has never drank or taken drugs in her life), I know of couples in high reputable careers have rife hidden heroin addictions and you’d know none the wiser and their children looked after very well. We only hear of the ‘bad’ addicts where when you’re in the game yourself it’s not how it is. Addiction doesn’t discriminate nor dictate the love for your child. Olivia stabbed her partner in the leg. If not she probably would have been killed herself.I agree with your views on addiction.I don’t see how ET having a hard time in prison and being a suicide risk has anything to do with the case. Women going into prison for petty theft can have a hard time and feel they can’t cope and be suicide risks during their sentence I doubt they get any time knocked off their sentence. Also, ex heroin addict here
It can happen to anyone.
But Olivia didnt just stab her partner in the leg. She stabbed him 12 times and killed him and has been convicted for manslaughter. She said she had no memory of the attack and her partner was abusive to her as well, but she wouldn't be in prison for that long if she only stabbed him in the leg
Exactly. It also wasn’t the first time she’d stabbed him as she’d also done it a few months previously when poor Arthur was present.
The judge said she was very intelligent but also very manipulative, and had told a pack of lies on the stand.
None of this means she deserved what happened to Arthur of course, no one deserves that, but I also don’t think we should minimise the crime that she committed herself.
Oh god, don’t apologise! I believe she stabbed him in the chest multiple times, as well as the leg, so it doesn’t sound like a ‘one stab in self-defence’ thing (which would obviously be a totally different scenario).Oh god, from what I read she had stabbed him in the leg.So sorry!
There’s an article from the time she was convicted here: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/olivia-labinjo-halcrow-jailed-11-20956475.amp
So playing devils advocate - if people are happy to victim blame Olivia and ultimately hold her 'responsible' for Arthur's eventual death - why aren't they questioning the fact that Gary stayed with her? Why didn't HE leave HER? Then he wouldn't have ended up stabbed.
ET is cunning and manipulative. There is no doubt in my mind that she will negotiate her way into a hospital prison setting, these settings are like a holiday camp where the whims of these 'mentally ill' prisoners are met on demand. I know this because I've worked on one of these wards and all we did was trips to the lake district, therapeutic activities, relaxation sessions, choir singing, baking classes, sky TV, board games and takeaways..... if she ends up in a place like this I'll be mortified but not surprised.
I’m not sure what you’re on about to be honest, I quite clearly said she didn’t deserve what happened to Arthur. But that doesn’t mean that we should excuse the crimes that she also committed herself.
Believe it or not, it’s possible to feel sympathy for someone for losing their son in hideous circumstances like these, while also believing she should be held responsible for killing someone herself.
It’s possible to understand that TH and ET were entirely to blame for Arthur’s death, but that his mum also let him down terribly and caused him a significant amount of trauma.
If you’ve somehow equated that to be ‘victim-blaming’, quite frankly I think that’s some reach
I also don’t think people would be quite so desperate to defend Olivia if she were a man, but that’s a whole other debate and not for this thread.
The only truly innocent party in this complex and tragic case is poor Arthur.
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