COVID-19 vaccine #20 & general vaccine conversation

[grampositive]

For balance, there are similarly hysterical threads where posters list the *same* people who have sadly died, but instead link their deaths to COVID.

I would say only difference is that the tone here is gleeful, where on the other threads it's more like fear.

In both cases - causality is being assumed whilst publicising the thousand or so sudden death in young people we see each year (predating the pandemic).

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

They don’t know what’s contributing / exacerbating the heart issues, you clearly are moderating when you ask a poster to stop posting stuff YOU feel is irrelevant.

Monga you posted an article about a person and their cause of death has ALREADY been established.

I clearly am not moderating and nowhere did I say ‘stop posting stuff’ so please do not put words in my mouth. I didn’t understand the relevance and wasn’t sure if you were questioning the cause of the death. Here is my post.

 

[Ensay]

For balance, there are similarly hysterical threads where posters list the *same* people who have sadly died, but instead link their deaths to COVID.

I would say only difference is that the tone here is gleeful, where on the other threads it's more like fear.

In both cases - causality is being assumed whilst publicising the thousand or so sudden death in young people we see each year (predating the pandemic).

Yes it definitely feels like there's a gleeful element to it. I remember a while back when a young person's death was posted on here - the covid-19 vaccine thread - and the cause of death hadn't been established at that point so no one could say it was or wasn't the vaccine.

Anyway, after a few weeks had passed and the cause of death was established to be unrelated to the vaccine, it was posted here and we got told off because apparently the only reason for posting it was to say "I told you so". It was deemed OK to speculate the vaccine caused that person's death, but not to later clarify that it didn't. I just saw it as a follow up post to clarify something that had been previously speculated about.

It's pretty much what we've been experiencing for ages in one form or another...

 

[monga]

Monga you posted an article about a person and their cause of death has ALREADY been established.

I clearly am not moderating and nowhere did I say ‘stop posting stuff’ so please do not put words in my mouth. I didn’t understand the relevance and wasn’t sure if you were questioning the cause of the death. Here is my post.

View attachment 1590804

I already answered the post and you continued to ask why I posted it here.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

I already answered the post and you continued to ask why I posted it here.

You mentioned the sudden spike in heart disease but again in this particular case the cause of death has been established - it is not a mystery.

 

[monga]

You mentioned the sudden spike in heart disease but again in this particular case the cause of death has been established - it is not a mystery.

They died of heart disease that has suddenly spiked due to unknown causes that’s the mystery.

 

[grampositive]

I haven’t changed any goalposts! I’m as invested as to the rise in heart disease as the scientists…..

But the key difference is that research scientists don't have a bias to blame every death they see on vaccines.

You linked an article, alluding to it providing weight to your arguments, but in it the research team say nothing of the sort.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

They died of heart disease that has suddenly spiked due to unknown causes that’s the mystery.

That isn’t what the medical examiner reported. This particular case (Valencia Prime) is not a mystery so not sure why you are attributing it to the above. It has not been flagged as a mystery by the medical examiner, it has not been reported as one case of many sudden spikes of heart disease.

“The Philadelphia medical examiner listed Prime’s cause of death as heart disease and classified the manner of death as natural causes, 6ABC reported.”

Philly drag queen Valencia Prime, 25, collapses and dies while onstage

A Philadelphia drag queen collapsed on stage mid-performance and died, prompting an outpouring of support for her family.

nypost.com

Regarding heart failure and heart disease you linked this from the British Heart Foundation.

Heart failure hospitalisations and deaths rise during second wave of Covid-19 pandemic

The number of times people were hospitalised due to heart failure rose significantly in Blackpool during the second wave of the Covid-19 pandemic

www.bhf.org.uk

It doesn’t really say that the increase in heart failure/hospitalisations/deaths are a mystery. It mentions the increase during the second wave of the pandemic.

It also touches upon that when the pandemic hit, the number of people going to hospital with suspected heart attacks halve. This was due to people’s fear of being exposed to the virus which they suspect is a factor in the rise of heart failure/hospitalisations/deaths.

We know the pandemic has put a strain on many of the services and many people are waiting for treatment.

 

[monga]

That isn’t what the medical examiner reported. This particular case (Valencia Prime) is not a mystery so not sure why you are attributing it to the above.

“The Philadelphia medical examiner listed Prime’s cause of death as heart disease and classified the manner of death as natural causes, 6ABC reported.”

Philly drag queen Valencia Prime, 25, collapses and dies while onstage

A Philadelphia drag queen collapsed on stage mid-performance and died, prompting an outpouring of support for her family.

nypost.com

I already read the article .If the post bothers you that much that it turn into a quoting marathon I suggest you report it and have it removed, otherwise it comes across as obsessively weird and disturbing

But the key difference is that research scientists don't have a bias to blame every death they see on vaccines.

You linked an article, alluding to it providing weight to your arguments, but in it the research team say nothing of the sort.

What weight? I’ve already linked articles mentioning the spike in heart disease of unknown origins that seems to be happening.

 

[grampositive]

From your previous posts you seemed firmly unmoving on the claim that the coronavirus vaccines (and maybe other vaccines) had caused an increase in cardiac issues @monga

So you accept this might not be the case, and that repeated coronavirus infections, or other related/unrealated factors may be contributing?

 

[monga]

From your previous posts you seemed firmly unmoving on the claim that the coronavirus vaccines (and maybe other vaccines) had caused an increase in cardiac issues @monga

So you accept this might not be the case, and that repeated coronavirus infections, or other related/unrealated factors may be contributing?

Where? Link where I’ve said coronavirus vaccines have caused the rise in cardiac issues

 

[grampositive]

Where? Link where I’ve said coronavirus vaccines have caused the rise in cardiac issues

You've linked tweets & videos that have claimed this, which is why I thought it was your view.

Is it not? Then great, we agree

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

I already read the article .If the post bothers you that much that it turn into a quoting marathon I suggest you report it and have it removed, otherwise it comes across as obsessively weird and disturbing

So a discussion is obsessively weird and disturbing? Right…

 

[monga]

You've linked tweets & videos that have claimed this, which is why I thought it was your view.

Is it not?

What vids?

So a discussion is obsessively weird and disturbing? Right…

It is when I’ve already given my reason for the post and you continue to hound me on the subject…very weird

 

[grampositive]

What vids?

From youtube - generally when I share stuff it's because I agree with it, and if I don't 100% then I'll say so.

I appreciate this is harder with videos, which is why I wouldn't link them with claims like that.

I'm genuinely interested and you seem weirdly evasive about answering the q - so you do accept this may not be causal, and there are other factors contributing? If so, then we agree.

But if so, why all the posts about sudden death due to cardiac issues, on a vaccine thread?

 

[monga]

From youtube - generally when I share stuff it's because I agree with it, and if I don't 100% then I'll say so.

I appreciate this is harder with videos, which is why I wouldn't link them with claims like that.

I'm genuinely interested and you seem weirdly evasive about answering the q - so you do accept this may not be causal, and there are other factors contributing? If so, then we agree.

I want you to link the vids I’ve shared stating covid vaccines and others are the reason for the increase in heart issues..,

 

[grampositive]

I want you to link the vids I’ve shared stating covid vaccines and others are the reason for the increase in heart issues..,

Are you saying you haven't? You've made no claims about vaccines causing heart disease - tweets or videos or anything else? I was certain you'd linked one of the John Campbell videos where he claims this.

I can't work out how to search for a username, and I'm not going to spend my evening manually going through page by page when I'm not being paid consultancy fees for it lol.

If you haven't and you think I'm wrong, just say so!

If you've never made these claims, then that's great and I'm glad we agree.

 

[monga]

Are you saying you haven't? You've made no claims about vaccines causing heart disease - tweets or videos or anything else?

I can't work out how to search for a username, and I'm not going to spend my evening manually going through page by page when I'm not being paid consultancy fees for it lol.

If you haven't and you think I'm wrong, just say so!

If not, then that's great and I'm glad we agree.

You’re completely wrong I’ve never put anything of the sort on here .I’ve already stated it’ll most likely be the next generation will have the answers to the pandemic.
I’ve clearly stated unknown origins

I’ve always kept an open mind throughout the pandemic, unlike you.

 

[grampositive]

I’ve always kept an open mind throughout the pandemic, unlike you.

We've been interacting for about 7 days, and the pandemic has been ongoing for over 2 years

I've said many times my opinions are informed by the most up to date evidence - I'm completely flexible about changing my views (and have done) when there is new robust evidence that challenges them.

Example: I like many other was hopeful about the prospect of ivermectin as a COVID treatment due to a strong biological rationale & some promising early studies - I thought it wouldn't be long before it was routinely used. Unfortunately most of the studies were found to be fraudulent and RCT evidence demonstrated a null effect - so *I changed my mind*.

The reason I disagree with the majority of the views on this thread is that they are *not* backed by robust evidence.

However, we seem to agree on cardiac issues, so that's cool.

 

[monga]

We've been interacting for about 7 days, and the pandemic has been ongoing for over 2 years

I've said many times my opinions are informed by the most up to date evidence - I'm completely flexible about changing my views (and have done) when there is new robust evidence that challenges them.

Example: I like many other was hopeful about the prospect of ivermectin as a COVID treatment due to a strong biological rationale & some promising early studies - I thought it wouldn't be long before it was routinely used. Unfortunately most of the studies were found to be fraudulent and RCT evidence demonstrated a null effect - so *I changed my mind*.

The reason I disagree with the majority of the views on this thread is that they are *not* backed by robust evidence.

However, we seem to agree on cardiac issues, so that's cool.

Only a few days ago you said the vaccines stopped transmission when even the gov scientists have said that’s not the case, yet you argued about that as a reason why we need to be boosted even though it would take the entire world vaccinated simultaneously to have a proper herd affect from vaccines alone.