Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #3

[Haveyouanywool]

Is it quite normal to sentence a juvenile to that length of time in the states? This was obviously back in the 80s, did they do mental health assessments prior to sentencing back then, especially given that a 14 year old commited such a terrible crime. I just think theres an awful lot more to all this.
I agree with what someone else said too about the possibility that CM and MG are trauma bonded, they just seem so mismatched that thats the only thing that makes sense.

I’ve no idea, but it was a horrendous crime, so I don’t think it would be too outrageous, for the States.
Did he get out early for good behaviour and/or participating in rehabilitation programs? Because he appeared to be a reformed character? Or a ‘technicality’.
Trauma bonding could be a possibility.

 

[Pumpkin84]

I just find it so hard to fathom that a 14 year old boy commited those acts. It begs the question are people born evil? Or did he have a very serious mental health condition or was he himself a victim of child sexual abuse (which goes without saying but its not an excuse before anyone comes at me). I just have lots of questions, but of course we have very limited information. I find certain aspects of this case confusing and somewhat interesting, mainly CM and MGs backgrounds and how their relationship came to be and the dynamics of it. Most of all I find it heartbreaking because the true victims here are their children who didn't ask to be born into all this mess.

 

[Kinderbelle]

New CCTV footage appears to show Constance Marten and Mark Gordon moments before arrest

It sounds like they are arguing about money here?

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

Ive seen no friends of MG speak out to his character like CM's have, only his mum and sister who claim he wrongly went to prison and was innocent. I think he probably has no friends and although he was working, lived quite a solitary life and probably didnt interact with any work colleagues.

Ive been wondering about the theory of them having children removed from their care because of his criminal record. Some sex offenders go on to have children and are allowed to keep them, but how do SS decide this? Is it based on how serious the offence was? Or based on assessments and if so what kind of assessments do they do, psychological assessments? Also how do SS even keep track on sex offenders that may go on to have children?

I wonder if this is partly (or largely?) because CM’s friends were easily accessible to the media because of her Facebook, and because they’re likely to be either from childhood or drama school so more ‘attractive’ in terms of quotability (yes I just made that word up) for the press.

 

[Pumpkin84]

New CCTV footage appears to show Constance Marten and Mark Gordon moments before arrest

It sounds like they are arguing about money here?

I've listened to this alot and to me it doesn't sound like they are arguing, they just seem to be talking loud because MG is limping behind her and looks like hes struggling to keep up so they are talking loud so they can hear one another. It sounds like he's asking her something and she answers him but its difficult to make out what they are actually saying

 

[Emsie]

I just find it so hard to fathom that a 14 year old boy commited those acts. It begs the question are people born evil? Or did he have a very serious mental health condition or was he himself a victim of child sexual abuse (which goes without saying but its not an excuse before anyone comes at me). I just have lots of questions, but of course we have very limited information. I find certain aspects of this case confusing and somewhat interesting, mainly CM and MGs backgrounds and how their relationship came to be and the dynamics of it. Most of all I find it heartbreaking because the true victims here are their children who didn't ask to be born into all this mess.

I dunno you know I have wondered this. 14 is soooo young! The American justice system isn't one I'd trust especially for a black male child. I question whether any mitigating circumstances were considered. Or maybe he is evil, it was a horrific crime and I'm sure I read that he had tried it before?!

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

His age when he committed his crimes is something I cannot get my head around. My eldest is 15 and there is no way he’d be capable of anything like that (thank goodness!), so to imagine him being sentenced at the age he is now to 40 years in prison…. It’s unthinkable.

Over 20 years in a US jail and then deported back to the UK is not a strong foundation for young adulthood for anyone.

I do wonder if he has a criminal record in the UK since he’s been back here. There was never a suggestion in the appeals that he (or she) shouldn’t be approached was there? So clearly not considered an immediate danger to others - which to be honest I find surprising given the violence of his crimes.

Maybe he has stayed out of trouble and CM is the loose cannon in all of this.

 

[Pumpkin84]

He was a year older than my son is now when he commited that crime and I just can't understand it, MG was a child, it doesn't bare thinking about does it! Could it be that he was diagnosed with a very serious mental illness that he still has to this day. So Im assuming even though he was still a juvenile he was sentenced as an adult? Probably not just because of the act itself but the planning and detail that went into it, apparently he had been watching her for months, knew her routine etc.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

He was a year older than my son is now when he commited that crime and I just can't understand it, MG was a child, it doesn't bare thinking about does it! Could it be that he was diagnosed with a very serious mental illness that he still has to this day. So Im assuming even though he was still a juvenile he was sentenced as an adult? Probably not just because of the act itself but the planning and detail that went into it, apparently he had been watching her for months, knew her routine etc.

I honestly can’t begin to understand how a child could do something like that.

It wasn’t even just once was it? ‘Just’ - I don’t mean it like that, as if once was nothing.

There must be some seriously dark things going on in a person’s brain to make that happen. 14 year olds don’t just go and commit violent crimes like that. Do they?!

Then you don’t just go to prison at 15 and come out a changed person. Maybe he got the help he needed - presumably psychiatric - but then what when he was deported back to the UK? Any continuity of care? Anyone to make sure he continued any necessary therapies or meds? Anyone to really make sure he was okay and not at risk of a relapse (if mental illness) which could cause a repeat offence?

Probably not.

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

The US is very different to the UK. The level of deprivation in some areas/communities is far worse than the majority of situations over here, there’s not really a welfare state as we know one and addiction issues are vastly different to ours. Rural poverty is also horrific over there.

Obviously I don’t know his childhood circumstances but as a black child in the US during the 80s he would have grown up in the crack epidemic. This is not me saying black = crack addicted family, he very well may have grown up in the suburbs to aspirational yuppy parents, but if he was living in one of the affected communities then yeah I can 100% see how a child could end up so traumatised through abuse and neglect that they could perform such a hideous crime as he did at 14. It’s not excusing it but if you look at the prison population vs the general population in the UK care levers are over represented, and I believe most women in prison have experienced DV or SA? Like someone can be a victim worthy of our sympathy and then in turn become a perpetrator of offences. It doesn’t mean they’re evil it means they’re struggling and arguably a lot of offenders (not rape and not this instance either) would benefit from a MH led approach rather than a punitive one.

 

[Emsie]

He was a year older than my son is now when he commited that crime and I just can't understand it, MG was a child, it doesn't bare thinking about does it! Could it be that he was diagnosed with a very serious mental illness that he still has to this day. So Im assuming even though he was still a juvenile he was sentenced as an adult? Probably not just because of the act itself but the planning and detail that went into it, apparently he had been watching her for months, knew her routine etc.

Jesus I didn't know he has been planning it, I assumed it was a break in or something. That's really calculated.
14 though, I just can't comprehend. My boys are still tiny but they 14 year olds I know can barely get ready for school let alone plan this.
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I don't understand the deportation though. I've read that he was deported back to the UK with his mum and sister following his prison sentence. Was he deported because if his crime and if so why did his mum and sister get deported too? He wasn't a minor? Or were they in the US illegally and then got deported back. It doesn't make any difference just seems bizarre to me. Why deport him after taking care of him in prison for 20 years?!
Excuse my ignorance I'm not sure how it all works!

 

[Pumpkin84]

I honestly can’t begin to understand how a child could do something like that.

It wasn’t even just once was it? ‘Just’ - I don’t mean it like that, as if once was nothing.

There must be some seriously dark things going on in a person’s brain to make that happen. 14 year olds don’t just go and commit violent crimes like that. Do they?!

Then you don’t just go to prison at 15 and come out a changed person. Maybe he got the help he needed - presumably psychiatric - but then what when he was deported back to the UK? Any continuity of care? Anyone to make sure he continued any necessary therapies or meds? Anyone to really make sure he was okay and not at risk of a relapse (if mental illness) which could cause a repeat offence?

Probably not.

Its not even like he acted on impulse either, it was planned, well thought out, he took his time watching both those women, knew when they'd be home, knew when one of the women's husbands left for work. You wouldn't think a child capable of being so methodical.

He likely came out of prison lacking in social skills and with a whole new set of MH issues. So much has changed since the 80s that I imagine it would be difficult to adapt to.

We all know help for MH is severely lacking in the UK so I very much doubt there was continuity of care. I mean they left in September but authorities didn't seem concerned about it? Why weren't they concerned if a known SO had left and presumably missed any checks in he was supposed to do. Or was it only when police found that car they became aware that they'd gone missing?
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Jesus I didn't know he has been planning it, I assumed it was a break in or something. That's really calculated.
14 though, I just can't comprehend. My boys are still tiny but they 14 year olds I know can barely get ready for school let alone plan this.
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I don't understand the deportation though. I've read that he was deported back to the UK with his mum and sister following his prison sentence. Was he deported because if his crime and if so why did his mum and sister get deported too? He wasn't a minor? Or were they in the US illegally and then got deported back. It doesn't make any difference just seems bizarre to me. Why deport him after taking care of him in prison for 20 years?!
Excuse my ignorance I'm not sure how it all works!

I could be wrong here but I think I read that only MG was deported back to the UK. If they were all deported back then yeah they could very well have been there illegally They originate from Birmingham, I wonder why his mum decided to up and leave like that. I think if you commit a crime in another country then you serve your time there. For exampe Ive read stories about people smuggling drugs into another country while on holiday there and being trialled and sentenced in that country.

 

[Emsie]

We all know help for MH is severely lacking in the UK so I very much doubt there was continuity of care. I mean they left in September but authorities didn't seem concerned about it? Why weren't they concerned if a known SO had left and presumably missed any checks in he was supposed to do. Or was it only when police found that car they became aware that they'd gone missing?

I believe the panic occured with finding them once they realised she was pregnant. Grown people can make tit decisions and woman around the country if they want. It makes me think that neither of them are a danger to the public. Just to each other and their children.

 

[Veronicaaa]

If (big if, I know) MG did emotionally manipulate CG in the beginning for his own gain - even before all the children etc - it would likely be the classic love bombing

This is it (bit in bold), for me. What kind of man repeatedly impregnates a woman, knowing what kind of damage that will cause?

 

[Pumpkin84]

This is it (bit in bold), for me. What kind of man repeatedly impregnates a woman, knowing what kind of damage that will cause?

It could have been CM that was desperate to carry his children, especially if she was besotted with him, and he just went along with it because they are both not in the right frame of mind. If they've been isolated together for years then I doubt they've been living in reality. Isolation in itself can cause poor mental health. I think they've both caused untold damage

 

[Veronicaaa]

he just went along with it

I'm struggling to see what he brought to the relationship tbh.

ETA I mean, her life seemed to be alright before she met him. Apart from the cult.

 

[rosieflowers]

I had a thought the other day and apologies that it's not really related to the discussion that's going on at the min.

But can you imagine being her children that seem to have been adopted. Not only the upset of finding out why you were taken from your parents and the horror of what it all ended up in, but finding out that you should have been born to an aristocrat and heir to a multimillion pound fortune?! The cousins that you may have on that side of the family as well as on MG' side?!

It's just one of the many extreme and bizarre aspects of this case and it's no wonder the case has caught the attention of so many

 

[Pumpkin84]

I'm struggling to see what he brought to the relationship tbh.

ETA I mean, her life seemed to be alright before she met him. Apart from the cult.

Thats one of the things I find interesting about it, how did the relationship come to be. Did he happen to come across her one day in passing and then 'stalked her' the way he did with those two women when he was 14. Did he find out everything he could about her and then lure her in, who knows.

 

[rainbowtapirs]

Considering the US typically hand out way longer sentences than the UK, along with their general approach to justice and black people in the 80’s, I’m not at all surprised his sentence was so long. I highly doubt they bothered to adequately assess him mentally either. He was convicted of all 6 charges from the first incident, but there was another incident a month later that we don’t know if he was convicted for.

I just can’t make sense of the fact that he’s seemingly managed to stay out of major trouble for the last 14 years when he was so brazen and violent at 14; it’s not like the US prison system is famous for its rehabilitation programmes. Surely he must have a personality disorder/abnormal brain structure or something.

 

[rosieflowers]

Jesus I didn't know he has been planning it, I assumed it was a break in or something. That's really calculated.

14 though, I just can't comprehend. My boys are still tiny but they 14 year olds I know can barely get ready for school let alone plan this.

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I don't understand the deportation though. I've read that he was deported back to the UK with his mum and sister following his prison sentence. Was he deported because if his crime and if so why did his mum and sister get deported too? He wasn't a minor? Or were they in the US illegally and then got deported back. It doesn't make any difference just seems bizarre to me. Why deport him after taking care of him in prison for 20 years?!

Excuse my ignorance I'm not sure how it all works!

His mum seems to have stayed living in the US by the way but he has half siblings living in the UK and the US. You can find some of them on Facebook and the sister who lives in London and who spoke to the papers looks to be not the most stable of People tbh and also posts aboit conspiracy theories etc