Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #3

[InTheDollsHouse]

Sorry my love, I’ve archived it here and it appears to get around the paywall:

Why Pop Culture Just Can’t Deal With Black Male Sexuality

archived 8 Mar 2023 13:36:06 UTC

archive.ph

Also what do the thread police want us to talk about if not discussing the nuance and complexities of this case? Just sit there going shame! Shame! Shame!

Thank you. I’ll have a read now.

I think unless we aren’t agreeing to immediate public hanging we must be supporters of all who harm children

 

[DellaC]

I don't know what I've missed, I havent seen anything about hanging them?

It's a mute point anyway in our civilised society, is it not?

I think they should be punished for the death of their child and if that makes me a gammon then oink oink but they can only be punished as far as the law will allow them to be punished. I hope the rest of their life is a misery. I can't help that, I just do.

Some people are more sympathetic to mental illness than others, I genuinely don't see it as an excuse or a reason for the way this baby's life has ended. If you do then fair play to you, your heart is good and your lifes experiences have led you to where you are. Given what I know know but there's not one person on this thread that 100% knows about the mental state of either of them. There also seems to be more sympathy afforded to her mental state than his. They were in it together it seems to me but we shall all wait and see.

Just like we don't know about CM and MGs mental health we don't know about posters MH needs or history on here.


Chill out darlings, its tattle not parliament

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

I think they should be punished for the death of their child and if that makes me a gammon then oink oink

Why are people virtue signalling like this constantly? 🥱 No one here doesn’t also believe in the judicial process and that yes, it is objectively morally wrong to allow your situation to get into a state where your child dies through negligence (or possibly worse, but those charges have not [yet?] been brought to them). But that doesn’t mean we can’t discuss the nuances of how that situation came to be and how their relative privileges/disadvantages will influence the outcome of this case.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

To say that you’re not sympathetic to mental illness is no different than saying you’re not sympathetic towards cancer.
The reaction to that would (rightly) be widespread outcry.

Maybe that’s why it feels to some like mental health gets talked about a lot - because it needs to be. Because there’s still such ignorance about it.


N.B. I deliberately haven’t directed this post at anyone in particular, because it’s not aimed at any one person. There are many to whom it applies over the last two full threads.

 

[DellaC]

You might aswell have tagged me in it chuck

I have genuine sympathies for people with Mental Illness. Genuine mental illness that is.

I don't have much sympathy for people who neglect their children or cause their children harm.

It's a conflict.

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

You might aswell have tagged me in it chuck

I have genuine sympathies for people with Mental Illness. Genuine mental illness that is.

I don't have much sympathy for people who neglect their children or cause their children harm.

It's a conflict.

And the bit in bold is an interesting conversation we can have on these threads if ppl weren’t constantly like 🥹is it just me who doesn’t agree with a newborn dying from neglect🥹 like oh aye yeah it is hun

Like this case is a 1/1, I can’t think of anything remotely similar? There are different categories of family/abuse/homicide/neglect cases that are similar and as controversial/morally repulsive to us like family annihilators or the women suffering from severe post partum MH who kill their children or this recent wave of abusive step parents abusing children to death, like even writing that out I know I see each as different even though they’ve all culminated in the death of a child. There’s nuance, that’s the point of our discussions.

 

[GM17]

Does anyone else think the pics on her Facebook were there to portray a happy family to SS? It seems bizarre all pics were uploaded on the same date with none showing the kids together…

 

[maytoseptember]

Does anyone else think the pics on her Facebook were there to portray a happy family to SS? It seems bizarre all pics were uploaded on the same date with none showing the kids together…

Definitely trying to convince someone/herself of something. Maybe just taking back "ownership" of the children, as they may all have been removed at that point with no question of them being returned to her care.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

You might aswell have tagged me in it chuck

I have genuine sympathies for people with Mental Illness. Genuine mental illness that is.

I don't have much sympathy for people who neglect their children or cause their children harm.

It's a conflict.

There have been so many posts dismissing the extremes of mental illness. Whether or not it is relevant in this case - for CM or MG - some of the things that have been said have been far from sympathetic.

Yes, your post reminded me, but I didn’t tag you because I wasn’t aiming it at you

I don't have any sympathy for people who neglect their children or cause their children harm.

I do have exceptionally strong feelings about those who fake or exaggerate mental illness for their own gain (bet you’d never have guessed that ) and I also feel strongly about people (in general, not just here in these threads) dismissing mental illness without even attempting to understand.

I get it. I really do.

4 1/2 years ago I wouldn’t have been able to comprehend the absolutely catastrophic and life-altering effects that single a traumatic event can have on a life, or on a brain. Let alone multiple traumas, or combined with a pre-existing mental health condition.

I like to think I’d have tried to understand, but I know now I couldn’t possibly have done. Not completely.

But what’s the Maya Angelou quote?

‘Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.’

Surely that’s what these threads are for? Everyone bringing something else to them, different views and opinions, so we can all discuss our views and expand our knowledge, and hopefully we can all do better.

 

[elepal]

How the hell, in this day and age, are people able to post that utter shite? Twitter is disgusting.

To be fair, have you *seen* who owns it?!

 

[4FoxAche]

Someone on the last thread said they thought CM was the controlling one, not MG. Why?

Genuinely curious why you think that.

 

[Traazers]

Someone on the last thread said they thought CM was the controlling one, not MG. Why?

Genuinely curious why you think that.

I took it as being because of her social standing and money.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I took it as being because of her social standing and money.

I think I said (possibly) dominant, instead of controlling.
I mentioned money as it was her trust fund, and she would be controlling the purse strings.
He seems to have gone to rats already, which might be an act, or he realises he’s on his road to prison and, as he’s been there already, he knows what it’s like, especially for someone responsible for the death of a baby.
Maybe, somewhere in the back of her mind, she knows (or expects) that her family will bail her out.
I actually think they’re as bad as each other.

 

[Emsie]

Someone on the last thread said they thought CM was the controlling one, not MG. Why?

Genuinely curious why you think that.

I think I might have posted something asking why people think it was cc with MG being the controlling one. It seems to me that assumptions are being made because she's a woman and he has a history, when it could easily be the other way round. CM has the money and the social standing.

For the record I don't think it's cc. I think it's two mentally unwell people that found each other and left a trial of trauma.

I'm also tired of people trying to shut down the discussion by saying we shouldn't speculate. Of course we are going to speculate. That's literally what the thread is about. Speculating about cc and their mh is also speculation.

 

[Baby Giraffe]

Years ago my friend was the one in a relationship with the money. He couldn't survive financially without her but had persuaded her that she was useless and needed him. I don't know the facts of this case but money doesn't make you more likely to be dominant

 

[Veronicaaa]

Years ago my friend was the one in a relationship with the money. He couldn't survive financially without her but had persuaded her that she was useless and needed him. I don't know the facts of this case but money doesn't make you more likely to be dominant

Agreed, and this is why the whole cult thing might prove to be significant - cults tend to target people with money, and crucially, people with money seem more drawn to cults than people who are less well off.

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

Years ago my friend was the one in a relationship with the money. He couldn't survive financially without her but had persuaded her that she was useless and needed him. I don't know the facts of this case but money doesn't make you more likely to be dominant

Can’t believe I’m about to cite Kerry Katona as an example lol but didn’t similar happen to her with that bloke Mark? I think money can make people vulnerable as they’re more desirable targets to predatory leaches. If anything broadly it tends to be the other way around wrt gender especially in day to day life eg “just” high earning men rather than wealthy old money or c list British celeb money.

But I know a bloke who was abused by a weird rat of a woman (not pretty, not funny, not educated, never had worked in her life so obvs not a 14 year old rapist but certainly not worth any grief about) and she’d tell him you’ll never get better than me etc but his self esteem was rock bottom so he accepted it. She had control of his money and used to commute to his work with him and read through all his notebooks and phone in case he’d spoken to a woman at work. His family gradually broke him free after seeing it first hand but she’d tried to (and to some degree succeeded at) isolating him from them because these types clearly know how to keep the scam going.

Sorry for story time but even thinking about that relatively run of the mill case that happens week in week out it makes me think about how dangerous estrangement can be for vulnerable people? Like you lose your protective network who will tell you this isn’t on and help you get out which I imagine is even more important if you have pre existing mental health issues or a huge bank act that make you the perfect victim for predatory people.
---

people with money seem more drawn to cults than people who are less well off.

Also sorry to continue that story time, the abusive woman in that story had previously been a Scientologist. Which idk if we’d class as a cult but I agree with you where cults attract the wealthy they also attract people looking for them too

 

[Veronicaaa]

a Scientologist. Which idk if we’d class as a cult

I think we would. An incredibly successful one.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

Can’t believe I’m about to cite Kerry Katona as an example lol but didn’t similar happen to her with that bloke Mark?

I have had (brief) dealings with them
Work-related for me. When there were money problems and he was absolutely using her.
V interesting dynamic. He was in obviously in charge and doing all the talking but she was having to be there as anything was in her name.

 

[rosieflowers]

I think that despite all the increased understanding and awareness of mental illness that's come about in the last decade or so, something that people are still understandably uncomfortable talking about is that people with severe mental illness - and I'm not talking about your average case of depression here - can be very difficult to be around and can make relationships difficult sometimes to the point of becoming impossible.

The statements from CM's parents spoke volumes on this, about how difficult and hurtful her behaviour has probably been since 2016. I think that's why I am inclined to believe her actions are so attributable to untreated mental illness, because many people have come out and said how kind, gregarious, interesting a person she was before.

I think what people are going to find difficult to understand about this case also is that being classed as vulnerable doesn't mean you are a meek mouse of a person that has no say/ doesn't actively make choices in their life. By all accounts CM has a very strong and robust character both before and after meeting MG and I think people will find it difficult to reconcile that with a diagnosis of a lack of capacity through severe mental illness and/ or coercive control