Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #3

[maytoseptember]

I would imagine they won’t report the exact reasons, possibly the category that they were at significant risk of harm. I imagine it is sufficient to state that care proceedings took place and concluded with full care and placement orders (if plan of adoption) which were then not appealed/ or not successful appealed.

The bar for having children removed is pretty high, so whatever they’d done in the past, it had to be serious.

The weirdest thing is that Constance’s FB had a photo of her standing on a train platform holding a baby (presumably their first child) looking healthy, well groomed, nicely dressed and smiling. She looked completely normal and unremarkable. Something must have gone so badly wrong after this point, for the child to have been removed. I mean: neglect, drugs, mental health issues, chaotic and dangerous lifestyle/living conditions.

Then there was an album of photos of children with three different initials, at what people described as looking like a contact centre. So it’s fair to assume that these subsequent babies had been removed from their care extremely young (there would have come a point where SS said the babies had to be taken immediately) and placed into foster care, with supervised visits at the contact centre.

From here we can probably deduce that Marten and Gordon were unable to comply with whatever had been asked of them (keeping up with visits, sorting out their living situation, taking drug tests possibly - this is all conjecture on my part) which is why they never got their children back.

I’m surprised to beat Victoria was their fifth baby. I was convinced she was the fourth.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

Does anyone else think it sounds as if it may have been SIDs? Not excusing her so pls don’t jump on this, but reading about her falling asleep with the baby sat up just reminded me of the terror I felt as a newborn mum because aaalll of the messaging from midwives is absolutely no sleeping sitting up, or on sofas where babies can get trapped under cushions etc.

Obviously parents in their weird circumstances present higher SIDs risks, as do smoking or drinking parents, but also begs the question how on earth was Constance up for 3 days? Was she drug dependent during this time?! Or just exaggerating newborn sleep deprivation?

Yes, I think it’s possible (maybe exacerbated by their circumstances) and I also think it’s going to be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn’t.

She said she hadn’t slept properly in a few days, and fell asleep sitting up. Lots of new parents have done that.

 

[Multi-21]

View attachment 2713496

They are ruling out natural causes? So that supports Martens saying she fell asleep with her and smothered her in her sleep deprived state

 

[Yano]

I'm reading it as they carried the baby in the lidl bag when she had died not whikr she wad alive?

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

They are ruling out natural causes? So that supports Martens saying she fell asleep with her and smothered her in her sleep deprived state

I think so, but I’m not sure whether they can actually rule out SIDS because so often there’s no ‘reason’ for it

 

[okdo2022]

I'm reading it as they carried the baby in the lidl bag when she had died not whikr she wad alive?

Yeah. In her police statement she said she died 5-7 days after being born and she kept the body because she wanted an autopsy and proper burial. So she’s claiming she died on 4th Jan and they were found at the end of feb but then a witness saw them with the baby on Feb19th!!! So she must be lying.

 

[Multi-21]

Yeah. In her police statement she said she died 5-7 days after being born and she kept the body because she wanted an autopsy and proper burial. So she’s claiming she died on 4th Jan and they were found at the end of feb but then a witness saw them with the baby on Feb19th!!! So she must be lying.

Did the witness see the baby move or hear or cry though? You’d never expect if there was a pushchair and baby shape in there that the baby might be dead, just asleep

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

I’m surprised to beat Victoria was their fifth baby. I was convinced she was the fourth.

on her fb there’s bty / dav / cof - I wonder if a fourth was removed at birth and that’s why no photos

 

[okdo2022]

Did the witness see the baby move or hear or cry though? You’d never expect if there was a pushchair and baby shape in there that the baby might be dead, just asleep

They said she was carrying a baby with no hat or socks on. So no crying. But if she died on Jan 4th like Martin claims by that point it would have been grey so clearly not a healthy baby.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

Did the witness see the baby move or hear or cry though? You’d never expect if there was a pushchair and baby shape in there that the baby might be dead, just asleep

They bought a dummy on 5th Jan though

 

[Itchy of Itchington]

Yes, I think it’s possible (maybe exacerbated by their circumstances) and I also think it’s going to be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn’t.

She said she hadn’t slept properly in a few days, and fell asleep sitting up. Lots of new parents have done that.

Infant death due to accidental smothering is not the same as SIDS. Overlaying is the other term used for it and it's sadly not uncommon in parents who use drink or drugs. These deaths can be subject to case reviews where there are already concerns about welfare of the child.
SIDS is what used to be called cot death where the baby died whilst sleeping and there's no identifiable cause such as smothering/illness/sudden Medical episode

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

They said she was carrying a baby with no hat or socks on. So no crying. But if she died on Jan 4th like Martin claims by that point it would have been grey so clearly not a healthy baby.

It’s not clear if the witness was close to them or a distance away (this is from the DM)

——

There’s a discrepancy between the DM and The Argus - DM says dummy was bought on 7th (same day as the tent and buggy) but Argus says 5th for the dummy

DM -

Also according to the DM, MG reported to a police station on Boxing Day

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Infant death due to accidental smothering is not the same as SIDS. Overlaying is the other term used for it and it's sadly not uncommon in parents who use drink or drugs. These deaths can be subject to case reviews where there are already concerns about welfare of the child.
SIDS is what used to be called cot death where the baby died whilst sleeping and there's no identifiable cause such as smothering/illness/sudden Medical episode

Sorry, I wasn’t meaning they were the same. More that she (claims she) didn’t know for certain what happened as she herself was asleep, but she (says that she) thinks she fell asleep over the baby.

And that many exhausted new parents have done similar - but with no awful outcome - so it’s plausible.

 

[Whataday21]

It was in the news pretty much daily though, from early January...the first taxi driver recognised them from the news, which would have only been a day or two after the investigation was launched?

If the taxi driver saw them first week of Jan, I still question why they were not found until the last week of Feb. That's nearly 2 months.
How were they paying for the taxi fares? With their card? And the police didn't think to track their card?

 

[neroli]

If the taxi driver saw them first week of Jan, I still question why they were not found until the last week of Feb. That's nearly 2 months.
How were they paying for the taxi fares? With their card? And the police didn't think to track their card?

I am thinking the same....All these huge taxi fares/meals etc..There must be a trail unless they had wads of cash stored up?

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

If the taxi driver saw them first week of Jan, I still question why they were not found until the last week of Feb. That's nearly 2 months.
How were they paying for the taxi fares? With their card? And the police didn't think to track their card?

They were reported to probably have a large amount of cash, while they were missing. They tried to pay cash for a hotel, but weren’t allowed so left.
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They had at least a few months to prepare, so my guess would be they stockpiled cash from her trust fund while they were able to

 

[Violetroselily]

Reports at the time said they were thought to have a large volume of cash withdrawn before they went missing

Police issue new appeal saying missing couple with baby may be 'low on cash'

The Met Police are concerned for the safety of a newborn baby who went missing with Constance Marten and Mark Gordon, as the family have been 'exposed to the elements' and may be running low on cash

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Dogmuck]

If the taxi driver saw them first week of Jan, I still question why they were not found until the last week of Feb. That's nearly 2 months.
How were they paying for the taxi fares? With their card? And the police didn't think to track their card?

They had planned their getaway and had stacks of cash. I think much of the information was discussed in the early threads. We’ve literally ummmmm and ahhhh’d about this for almost 12 months. I’m not sure where we got this info but didn’t we also find out they bought the car for cash. They were planning to leave the country, they weren’t planning to leave a paper trail for the police to find them, that’s why they zigzagged all around the country from north to east to south.

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

I am thinking the same....All these huge taxi fares/meals etc..There must be a trail unless they had wads of cash stored up?

That was the implication when they were on the run iirc, that she might have tens of thousands in cash but they’d expect it to start running low soon-ish.

Also knowing that her parents can and have restricted access to her trust fund it explains why she’s chosen to live in shithole areas of south and east London or in temporary structures like tents and caravans, because she could then skim the excess off to fund whatever she actually wants the money for. Which begs the question are drugs involved in all of this at any point too tbh.

 

[thisisme20]

Good one to follow

 

[flap a doodle dandy]

I wonder if there was concern about them harming the baby if it was made headline news over the media?

What sort of woman has 5 kids and doesn't have the ability to put them before herself?

what kind of man has 5 kids and doesn't put them first. They both seem as bad as each other but it does annoy how the media seems to be very focused on her and her background.