Thank you! Fingers crossed for something towards the end of next week
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How on earth have they lost a juror at this stage.
Please not a re-trial
Please not a re-trial
Oh god , could that happen ?How on earth have they lost a juror at this stage.
Please not a re-trial
If they can’t get a majority of 9/10, or they drop to 9 and can’t get unanimous, the judge will ask them to try to come to an agreement. If they really can’t, the jury is discharged.
The prosecution can then decide to hold a new trial, or they decide it’s not a strong enough case / not strong enough evidence to hold a new trial.
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They were instructed to find guilty on two charges anyway weren’t they? I hope they have reached guilty on cruelty at the very least.
The thought of the only guilty verdicts being concealment of birth and perverting the course of justice is too awful.
Does anyone know what happens if (for example) the 11 jurors originally found guilty on one charge by majority, then a juror leaves - can the verdict be challenged by the defence because the no-longer-there juror was counted?
Does it stand that the jury at that time reached a verdict, or can it be that because that juror has since left they have to reach unanimous or majority with those remaining.
Unanimous verdicts would be okay as that isn’t influenced by number.
Does it stand that the jury at that time reached a verdict, or can it be that because that juror has since left they have to reach unanimous or majority with those remaining.
Unanimous verdicts would be okay as that isn’t influenced by number.
No juries can drop down to 10, it does happen.
How much does a majority have to be? If a juror leaves mid-verdicts and it was a tight majority then surely whichever side "lost" would kick off.
Unless they reach all the verdicts next week I think they're heading dangerously close to this all falling apart. The longer it drags on especially now it’s so fragile with 10 jurors the more likely it is more will have to drop out. They’ll be hoping the 10 left will think they’ve stuck it out this far so want to see it to the end but other commitments will come flying in now (presumably why not going back til Thurs) and as it’s approaching summer they’ll be in real trouble
I think it could go either way, the remaining jurors stick it out because they’ve been there for so long and want justice for Victoria or they think “well I know John has said he’s got a 2 week holiday to Hawaii in early June and Jane is getting married in Cyprus on July 1st so this is going to go on for two more months and they’ll probably kick John out and we won’t be unanimous so I might as well go now and not waste more time for it to collapse anyway”
ETA: and once they get into June the chance that there are holidays delaying then and that the 6 weeks holiday could be completely blocked off between juror commitments (scheduled a seemingly safe distance after trial that was meant to end ages before) and the counsel likely having holidays etc with their kids will be present in everyone’s minds I’d imagine.
To be fair a juror could have had a bereavement, found out they’ve got cancer. The jury decision still stands.
Slightly off-topic but it’s come up like this on the few trials I’ve followed closely, just wondering if it’s recorded and published how common it is to lose jurors during a trial? Presumably it happens often and that’s why they start with a couple of alternates and the final numbers are slightly over what is needed for a majority verdict. A few people have kindly explained on here why there are days when court isn’t on, and short sessions etc. It’s been quite eye-opening for me to realise that even in high-profile cases with the most serious charges they can’t just sweep the board and focus on getting the trial done, because there is so much work going on behind the scenes and of course other trials/matters to be arranged and settled. I also hadn’t appreciated that they would have to accommodate prior commitments of the jurors, I naively assumed once they were sworn in that was it until the job was done. I think I watched too much bad telly!
Surely there has to be a very good reason for a juror to drop out even for the day...I mean it can't be to attend their child's sports day or to wait in for n engineer to visit? Or maybe it can?
I also thought that a jury was sworn in for the duration too barring extremely serious circumstances.
I also thought that a jury was sworn in for the duration too barring extremely serious circumstances.
i Think they really need to look at timescales for a jury this has run on so much longer I am not surprised jurors are dropping out they may have had other commitments made months ago.
However on the other hand maybe the days we haven’t heard are all legal arguements and judge is making sure they would have no grounds of appeal ( following the Letby case thank goodness she’s not been allowed to appeal as judge made sure everything covered correctly).
Fingers crossed for verdict next week.
However on the other hand maybe the days we haven’t heard are all legal arguements and judge is making sure they would have no grounds of appeal ( following the Letby case thank goodness she’s not been allowed to appeal as judge made sure everything covered correctly).
Fingers crossed for verdict next week.
With 12 people of varying ages, fitness levels and lifestyles it must be nearly impossible for all of them to be available all of the time. Even more difficult when the trail has overrun and starts to interfere with pre planned events.
There seems to be less last minute jury adjournments in this trial than Lucy Letbys, who I’m happy to see has lost her Appeal application.
There seems to be less last minute jury adjournments in this trial than Lucy Letbys, who I’m happy to see has lost her Appeal application.
BIB: apart from very serious things (illness, unexpected bereavement, v important hospital appointment) they don’t have to accommodate that in the actual scheduled trial - that’s why they select jurors based on who’s available etc for that period.
The issue is when it runs over - they can’t dictate to the jurors what they do and don’t book outwith the stated trial period and when it’s as long as this one they can’t really afford to be arsey about it and risk jurors withdrawing rather than cancel their holiday etc. Especially once it’s two+ months outside the trial schedule, if you thought something was finishing in March it’s not unreasonable to have assumed you could book a holiday for the late May half term or in June and you may well have been selected when it was already booked and they just didn’t ask/thought the trial would be over now.
The judge also had cases scheduled in, like half days for sentencing? Once it started to overrun, the whole thing went off the rails. The court system is overburdened so that’s why everything is packed in.
I'd kind of forgotten about this one and popped back and of COURSE it's still ongoing. This is ridiculous.
In Scotland the jury is 15 people and a majority is 8. (Cos that's a flipping... majority!) So you don't get this nonsense of one or two thick knobheads holding the whole thing up for everyone and wasting everyone's time.
In Scotland the jury is 15 people and a majority is 8. (Cos that's a flipping... majority!) So you don't get this nonsense of one or two thick knobheads holding the whole thing up for everyone and wasting everyone's time.
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