Lets she how she treats her understudy this time.On the theatreboard, people were speculating about the rest of the Cinderella cast. One mentioned that Lauren Byrne from Six who was pictured in rehearsal is in the ensemble and might be understudy for Cinderella. A few posters chimed in that they’d much rather see her than Carrie.I mean, I would too but Ouch!
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Or ALW pulls the same stunt he did on Patti Lapone when she was in sunset?! And just replace her with out her knowing
Love the insight from someone who knows about singing/notes! I've taken lessons with a singing teacher in the past because I wanted to learn technique for my amateur choir, but I still unfortunately don't know much about sheet music and analysing the technique of others, so thanksHow do you think 20 year old Carrie would have done it differently?
Tis brilliant you sought out a teacher for technique! So many people wouldn't
Things I think 20 year old Carrie, in particular, would've done differently and/or better?
1) going by the words of this song from Cinders, if she sang it in the way she sang Eponine, it would work
2) lack of inflated ego. There's a difference between self-confidence in one's ability and inflated Ego. Ego transcends one from storyteller and a part of the machine to Another Portrayal of Moi by Moi. It's when you go from feeling and living the emotion of the song each time you sing to here I am, don't I sing prettily and am I not just amazing?!?!?
4) at 20, Carrie had yet to damage her voice. Whilst time travelling, I'd definitely tell younger her to please take vocal warmups and exercises and diaphragm support exercises seriously. I don't know if a very good teacher (emphasis on teacher, not coach) could help her voice recover from the damage or if it's permanent. I haven't heard her voice enough outside of engineered settings to know. I hope, for the promise 20 year old Carrie had, it isn't permanent. Saying that, if she doesn't take vocal maintenance seriously, she won't have any voice to use in the years to come. A voice is like any other instrument, you have to warm it up, be gentle and listen to what it needs every day
Through a combination of 1 and 2 (and this is partially a point I forgot to make in my original thoughts on the video), you don't have to shout and belt the entire way through the song. Belting isn't meant to be used that way. The performance on ITV was very monotonous, where were dynamics, the building of emotion and passion to a climatic point?
Apologies for the waffle-rich essay, good vocal production is important to me
(I've been in the world of music since I was pint-sized, multiinstrumentalist - including voice, and work in the biz across continents and languages. My favourite voice teacher with whom I Skype no matter where I am is old enough to be in a retirement home but still working professionally with a soaring, magnificent first soprano so I've had it drilled into me since teenagerhood about looking after the assets haha).Haha! To be honest I’d much rather see Lauren. Quite a few people said they’d have rather seen Olivia Moore in Heathers than Carrie and how they preferred her. I saw Heathers and I’d have rather seen Olivia to be honest, I think she’s fantastic.On the theatreboard, people were speculating about the rest of the Cinderella cast. One mentioned that Lauren Byrne from Six who was pictured in rehearsal is in the ensemble and might be understudy for Cinderella. A few posters chimed in that they’d much rather see her than Carrie.
This has reminded me! Does anyone remember when her understudy went on in Addams family and Oliver posted a photo of them and left her some support and Carrie unfollowed her
But she was so quick to preach how the cast were so close?
She has a real cheek spouting about supporting other women when she is exactly the type of woman who has to be the centre of all male attention at all times! She’s so insecureHaha! To be honest I’d much rather see Lauren. Quite a few people said they’d have rather seen Olivia Moore in Heathers than Carrie and how they preferred her. I saw Heathers and I’d have rather seen Olivia to be honest, I think she’s fantastic.
This has reminded me! Does anyone remember when her understudy went on in Addams family and Oliver posted a photo of them and left her some support and Carrie unfollowed her
I just went back and looked and he hadn’t posted a selfie with just him and Carrie in it at that point, so that must have stung for her. She was clearly way more into him than the other way around.This has reminded me! Does anyone remember when her understudy went on in Addams family and Oliver posted a photo of them and left her some support and Carrie unfollowed her
Oliver’s insta is mainly group pictures, and interesting shots, rather than selfie after selfie after selfie.
I have to give one itty little bit of credit (the smallest amount possible) for her public response to the message about her diction. There was no doubt at all that the person was going to get blocked, but at least she played it off as a laugh and didn’t go on her usual passive aggressive tirade 
Baby steps, Caz
Baby steps, Caz
I dunno, I think he's got too many "an excuse to show I'm hot"-selfies. Not as many as Carrie does, but still annoying
totally agreed! It’s a tiny step in the right direction at least.I have to give one itty little bit of credit (the smallest amount possible) for her public response to the message about her diction. There was no doubt at all that the person was going to get blocked, but at least she played it off as a laugh and didn’t go on her usual passive aggressive tirade
Baby steps, Caz
kinda sad though that a decent response so common for others is so unusual for Carrie that it’s worthy of praise.
This was in Baz Bamigboye's column:
Surely it is some kind of sign that business as usual is returning, as I hear rumours of high-decibel discord behind the scenes of a new musical.
Tears, tantrums . . . the whole kit and caboodle. I bet opening dates will shift.
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My theory is its Cinderella.
Surely it is some kind of sign that business as usual is returning, as I hear rumours of high-decibel discord behind the scenes of a new musical.
Tears, tantrums . . . the whole kit and caboodle. I bet opening dates will shift.
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My theory is its Cinderella.
I mean, if you go to Lauren’s stories or Tiktok and see her singing videos (last cover was defying gravity) there is no wonder why some people rather see her than Carrie.
Also I might be biased because last year I got a cameo from Lauren and she was absolutely the sweetest.
Also I might be biased because last year I got a cameo from Lauren and she was absolutely the sweetest.
I can imagine Carrie being super stroppy and difficult to work with if you're another cast member but I'm not sure if I can picture tears and tantrums from her towards directors etc. More just being rude and crappy to colleagues and looking down on people. Unless it's just upsetting everyone and causing them all to kick off so the tears and tantrums come from them!
Lauren’s voice is so much easier on the ear than Carrie’s. I’d love to hear her sing Far too Late or IKIHAH (or Heart of Stone as it should now be known as!). Bad Cinderella not so much - even the most amazing voice can’t improve that train wreck of a song.
I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I read Carrie's book "When The Curtain Falls" last year and there is a lot to unpack in the realm of understudies in the text. Out of curiosity, I flicked back through it, and even though WTCF was written around the Addams era and I think it's generally agreed upon that Moose is from the Heathers era, there were a few lines that were weirdly reminiscent of the things Moose said as well. This will be a long post, so call this the TLDR-Carrie's book might provide a bit of insight into her views on covers.
As a disclaimer, obviously, WTCF is fiction and obviously can't be relied upon to reflect the views or biography of the author; to give a dumb example, JRR Tolkein clearly wasn't a hobbit. However, even the shallowest reading of the book would reveal the distinct similarities between Carrie and Olive, the protagonist, from hair (Olive is blonde), personal style (Olive wears loose dresses and "chunky boots" [wtcf, chapter one]), cultural references (she references Harry Potter just off the top of my head), favourite drink (Olive always orders a gin), and career (Olive is an actress and incidently appears in Little Shop Of Horrors prior to the novel's events, which we know is one of Carrie's dream roles). Additionally, the main plot revolves around a relationship that begins while playing love interests in a show. Seperate the art from the artist, etc, but you'd be very naive if you thought Olive wasn't supposed to reflect Carrie even a little bit. Although Carrie is obviously a complex, real person, and most of us don't know her personally at all, it's easy to see some similarities. Which is unfortunate, because I don't think Carrie would like to be associated with a character like Olive.
Now, I like Carrie a lot (soz! Not a popular opinion here!) and her previous two books, On The Other Side and All That She Can See were nice, light reads. Although I found them a little saccharine, there's nothing particularly wrong with them and they certainly have a time and place; not everyone wants to read Tolstoy on the beach. However, I did not like WTCF, largely for a reason I've given in the spoiler below (CW: sexual assault)
The scene where Fawn is raped was handled very badly in my opinion. Although obviously including issues such as sexual assault in media is important and we don't know what might have motivated Carrie to include it, in my opinion it wasn't given the weight and severity that such an issue demands, and I felt it was unnecessary, (the plot could have moved perfectly fine without it) therefore gratuitous.
The best way I can describe Olive is that she is what some people on this site imagine the absolute worst version of Carrie to be like. She is condescending, deliberately unaware of her privilege (she is much more privileged than Carrie actually), self-absorbed, and latches onto whatever leading man she has at the time. She does occasionally deliver Facebook-style inspiring quotes to her "friends" (eg, characters who are not a threst to her), but a few "you're not too big, the world is just too small"s does not a nice person make. I would say that Olive is attention-seeking, but actually, she doesn't need to be, because the love and attention she ultimately believes she is due is constantly heaped on her from everyone she meets, from her friends in the cast to the bartender at a local club. We don't find out that Olive is a hard-working and respected actress from her actions-we are TOLD FIRMLY AND REPEATEDLY DID YOU DEFINITELY CATCH THAT by other characters who seem to exist in her world to lick her boots. Firmly, I'm absolutely not saying that this is what Carrie is like, obviously I don't know anything about her, but it's the worst version assumed of her on sites like this, and it's interesting that this comes out in a character such as Olive.
The subject of other characters unnaturally singing Olive's praises brings me nicely onto Jane and Tamara, and my point. Jane and Tamara are in the ensemble of the show Olive and Oscar are in, and Jane is Olive's first cover. I hope it's okay if I put in one short quote here for reasons of criticism, because the exact phrasing of it made me think of Moose:
"Jane pulled away from Oscar sharply and was one stamped foot away from showing her age as the baby of the cast." - Carrie Hope Fletcher, When The Curtain Falls, Chapter Three.
It might be a coincidence, but it's interesting that Olive looks down on younger, less experienced cast members, just as Moose described Carrie doing to them.
Anyway, Jane is whining and complaining (all she does as a character, I'll get to that) that as first cover she should be party to all of Oscar and Olive's conversations. Unprompted, Doug, a friend of Olive's, dives in with the energy of the most devoted fangirl and performs a monologue about how Jane shouldn't hold her breath to go on because Olive, the greatest and most dedicated actor in the world, has only taken one sick day in two years. Olive performs some token embarrassment, but ultimately, her desired effect has been achieved-Jane the first cover shouldn't sit in the wings rubbing her hands together and chuckling wickedly under her breath, as all understudies obviously do, hoping with all her might that Olive will break her arm or something so that she can go on, because good guy Olive is a trooper. Sorry if this sounds mean-spirited, but genuinely, this is how the scene comes across.
Doug almost manages to be one of the more likable characters-he's a talented, good-looking, strictly platonic brotherly friend to Olive who kisses, hugs, and fawns over her at every opportunity. He explicitly mentions once that he is indeed straight, as if to drop a hint, because everyone seems to just fall at Olive's feet. And anyone who doesn't is an evil witch. Cue Jane and Tamara. Tamara has a huge thing for Oscar and gets with him at one point, and Jane is her bff, so obviously Olive feels less than warmly towards them. It might be implied that Jane fancies him too, because the world and their wife find Oscar irresistable too. As a result, Jane and Tamara are 1D cartoon villains, being bitchy to everyone in the cast apart from Oscar. They are introduced thusly:
Tamara: a "spindly creature", who Olive's narration informs us only wants to be friends with people who might further her career.
Jane: a "smaller, slender girl" whose name is as plain as her face.
These two girls have committed the sins of being rival females, having slender body types, and liking tight dresses and clubbing, and therefore must be punished by being portrayed as nothing but catty children, while Olive's modest dress and "I'm so quirky and different look at me" moments are put on a pedestal by the other characters and the narrative voice alike. Oh, and one of the girls is Olive's cover. Evil knows no bounds, right?
Sorry if this was super long and pointless! I did feel mean writing it, tbh. I think Carrie could be a good author with a bit of constructive criticism (which obviously this can't really be called). But just thought it might be an interesting example of art imitating life. What do we think?
Even this overly gushing vocal coach (or is she a singing teacher? She seems to interchange between the two titles) hears the strain in Carrie's voice (due to bad technique?) at the end here: (from 6:00. "Oftentimes it's from too much tension on those belt-y notes" (From 6:23)
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She looks like Marvin, the tall robber, from Home Alone when he got electrocuted.
Nothing at all of worth to add, just wanted to say I saw CHF a few times in Les Mis and she was great.
Based on what Audrey is saying in the video, she is making comments from the point of view of a singing teacher- she’s talking about chord closure, tongue tension, vowel sounds etc. I’ve never seen her videos before so it’s possible she is also a vocal coach as well. The differences between singing teachers and vocal coaches is what they actually do. Singing teachers will give you exercises to warm up the voice, reduce tongue tension if you have it (there are some theories that tongue tension doesn’t exist, which I’m really interested in btw), teach you how to safely sing and use your voice in a way that isn’t harmful to your vocal chords. Qualified singing teachers know the anatomy of the vocal chords.
A vocal coach mostly assumes that you know how to look after your voice and concentrates more on how to act and perform through a song.
I believe that Andrew Lloyd Webber’s preferred vocal coach is also a singing teacher which would explain why Carrie’s voice has been sounding better recently. It makes sense for someone like him to use someone who can help his performers find the character and tell the story but also give them exercises which will help their voice survive the show. The 3 songs we’ve heard Carrie sing for Cinderella are more technical than you might think. Take Bad Cinderella- starts off more speak singy/ belty, then goes into the higher belt in the chorus and towards the end of the song. The most difficult part for Carrie would be placing the high belt at the end of the song. On a bad day if she hasn’t warmed up properly it’ll either break ie not quite hitting the note/ straining, end up in a mix with not quite enough power behind it or complete head voice with no power behind it ie a more floaty sound which is obviously not what they are going for in the song, Far Too Late goes across all the ranges, low belt for the verses, mix in the chorusy bits up to a head voice for the high notes, especially at the end of the song, because a belty sound up there would be too forceful for the song- I’d say for the majority of the song she’d be in mix. IKIHAH is closer to Far Too Late in that belt all the way through is too much power - mainly need to be in mix with a bit belt on the lower notes possibly staying in mix for the higher notes. Belting would be too much on the high notes, head voice too floaty. The medium ground would be mix. A singing teacher would be helping her to place the different parts of her voice in different parts of the song. The fact that we have been criticising her ability to act the song but sounding nice tells you she’s concentrating more on vocal placement with a singing teacher rather than the character and story development with a vocal coach. At this point when they have barely started rehearsals, it makes sense that ALWs preferred person will have started with singing the songs safely- once that muscle memory has settled in then they can concentrate more on telling the story.
I will say, I am a qualified singing teacher, I have been teaching online through lockdown- I do kind of know what I’m talking about. It is a lot easier to tell what is happening when the person is in front of you, but there is a lot you can tell just by ear.
I know the difference between singing teacher and vocal coach (just was wondering why this woman would label herself a singing teacher on one video and a vocal coach on another, but I guess it's because she's both, and labels her videos according to which type of commentary she's doing on each video) - still found it useful to hear your description, though. I agree, Carrie's voice sounded better than it has in a long time on that TV performance, so here's to hoping she keeps seeing a singing teacher after Cinderella!
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