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I agree re The Samaritans. Maybe my view is clouded but a close family member died by suicide and there was absolutely no way we could have safeguarded her 24/7.
She was sectioned for a bit so objectively “safe” but the environment had a negative effect overall on her mental health. And then when she was home, she waited until we were all engaged with other stuff (still in the same house) and took her chance.
Sorry for me-railing but this is the crux of Caroline’s mum’s issue. If someone really wants to end their life you can’t stop them. Everyone did their best in the situation they were in with the knowledge they had. It’s easy to say with hindsight, but impossible to know whole you’re in the situation.
I do have some sympathy for Caroline's Mum - losing a child to suicide must be one of the most heinously painful things imaginable. That said, Caroline, and only Caroline, is responsible for her death. She had a history of poor mental health and tried to take her life on previous occasions. If her friends had stayed, yes, she might not have killed herself at that point, but I suspect she would have done so further down the line anyway. Blaming her friends is cruel and is only making her look bitter and twisted.
She was totally unsuited to a career in the public eye.
I am also sympathetic. I can’t imagine anything worse. I wish she had good support around her though to tell her that endless casting around for someone else to blame is not going to help in processing her grief
It's at that point now as well she'll see Caroline's peers moving on, new career opportunities, families etc knowing Caroline will never get to do the same.
However throwing blame around is not a healthy way to deal with it
However throwing blame around is not a healthy way to deal with it
I trained as a Samaritan and left as I was on pins everytime I did a shift in case it was ‘the one’. For anyone who doesn’t know - Samaritans do not call the police if someone is on the line who has actively taken measures to end their life. They sit with them until the call comes to an end and they no longer respond, whatever way that may be.
Those poor people. What a terrible risk to expose volunteers(?) to.
That's awful, why isn't there an obligation for the Samaritan to ring emergency services if they get a call where a life is clearly at risk? I'd assumed there would be an obligation
I rang the Samaritans a few times years ago. I wasn't suicidal but quite depressed. I had family I could have talked to but I didn't want to burden them. Personally I found Samaritans comforting to talk to.
If she did have BPD it's a very niche area, standard CBT doesn't really cut it, you need DBT at least to even touch the surface.
There's no chance a standard Samaritans volunteer would be able to help in that case bar be a listening ear.
I've been in that place where I've thought if someone left me I would just actually die (your brain doesn't even get into the how but you think without this person, that's it there's nothing left for you).
Luckily I'm in a better place than it seems Caroline was, but I can see how she got there and I can also feel desperately sorry for Lewis in particular, knowing you are someone's be all and end all is really not healthy.
There's no chance a standard Samaritans volunteer would be able to help in that case bar be a listening ear.
I've been in that place where I've thought if someone left me I would just actually die (your brain doesn't even get into the how but you think without this person, that's it there's nothing left for you).
Luckily I'm in a better place than it seems Caroline was, but I can see how she got there and I can also feel desperately sorry for Lewis in particular, knowing you are someone's be all and end all is really not healthy.
I'm in that position but when there is no support system and professional knowledge is patchy there is no other option so you do what you need to in order to keep your loved ones alive and safe. It's a huge responsibility but that's what many people do and they don't want gratitude or attention.
Only if the caller changes their mind and asks for help. But that could be too late. You are trained to sit it out with someone and be the last voice they hear.
Thank you for your service @Mrsturnerreturns, it can't be easy, nor do you expect or receive any recognition or acclaim, but I thank you anyway
Thank you so much for posting this. I am very appreciative of you saying that. My cohort were an incredible bunch, most of them are still taking calls. It’s one of the most rewarding things a person can do, being there for someone during their darkest hours and we are very lucky to have this service in our country. Thank you so muchThank you for your service @Mrsturnerreturns, it can't be easy, nor do you expect or receive any recognition or acclaim, but I thank you anyway
Lewis has just had his second child with Lottie and their relationship appears to be relatively drama free (of course one never truly knows). He seems to be a pretty engaged father. He was painted by some as to be trouble, but there wasn’t much evidence?? I know others have said on here that he sold the photo of that night .. did he do anything else morally questionable?It's at that point now as well she'll see Caroline's peers moving on, new career opportunities, families etc knowing Caroline will never get to do the same.
However throwing blame around is not a healthy way to deal with it
From a BPD perspective (I know we're all armchair speculating regarding Caroline), but even if he sent the photo to a trusted friend and they in turn sold it, my judgement remains that the seller is a gob not Lewis.
I've obviously never been on that side of it, but I can understand the ongoing stress he must have been under, and especially with whatever happened that night if he reached out to someone he thought he could trust, absolutely shame on them.
I can understand from a partner perspective reaching out to anyone and everyone you thought could help.
Considering Lotties losses, and Lewis's trauma (even if he doesn't know it consciously yet) I hope that they've been able to address that even with a therapist if needs be, whilst of course enjoying the blessing of their little ones.
Oh that's so incredibly sad but also how comforting to know if someone doesn't want to die alone, this service is provided. I cannot imagine how it must feel to be on the receiving end of that phonecall.
I feel very sorry for her mum in that she lost a child and it's the worst pain someone can go through but she seems to be essentially terrorising anyone she's decided "failed" her daughter and the Mail are happily giving her a platform to do it on. Very wrong, very unheathy. If she's not doing so already she needs some grief counselling. If she's already had some she needs more.
At present she's handling her daughter's suicide in the worst possible way and the press are exploiting her but she's too blinded to see it.
At present she's handling her daughter's suicide in the worst possible way and the press are exploiting her but she's too blinded to see it.
I imagine that she wants Caroline's name to be resurrected in the media again as the 5 year anniversary approaches? By lashing out at the friends who supposedly failed her she knows that they can hardly defend themselves or reveal some of the more unsavoury details of what really happened as no one should speak badly of the dead and they would be vilified. I feel very sorry for them and think that C's mother should step back and reconsider her accusations.
I think Lewis is a bad sort - partly because of things that have been reported about him and partly because of a hunch (I realise that has no credibility).
Lewis and Lottie have been photographed having quite bad public arguments a few times. I doubt their relationship is rosy. It just isn’t as dramatic as his relationship with Caroline for whatever reason - maybe their dynamic is different and/or Lottie is more emotionally composed.
He was suspected of cheating on Caroline or at least being in contact with other women more than once.
Is it a coincidence that his past two relationships have been with wealthy, vulnerable women that have apparently financially supported him or does he target that type deliberately?
He was/is involved in some seemingly dodgy social media finance venture. He doesn’t seem to have a job otherwise.
After ringing the police (as he should have) he made vindictive comments to Caroline about how the phone call would affect her reputation. I think it was something like “you’re ducked now”. I think this indicates he was motivated not only by self-protection.
Despite publicly appearing to support her and not pressing charges, I think he was manipulative and enjoyed Caroline’s downfall in the end. After all, he sent an ex girlfriend a photo of Caroline’s blood all over the bed (why would you think to do that? Taking a pic as evidence is one thing but sending it to an ex partner is another) which he would have known could easily get into the hands of the media and inflame the situation.
He also quickly started a new relationship with someone who, if not friends with Caroline certainly seemed to be closely connected to her life. This relationship was said to have begun at a memorial for Caroline, which I think speaks volumes about how he really felt about Caroline.
Caroline abused him that night and he was a victim but, in my opinion, he is an immoral, manipulative, parasitic grease ball.
Lewis and Lottie have been photographed having quite bad public arguments a few times. I doubt their relationship is rosy. It just isn’t as dramatic as his relationship with Caroline for whatever reason - maybe their dynamic is different and/or Lottie is more emotionally composed.
He was suspected of cheating on Caroline or at least being in contact with other women more than once.
Is it a coincidence that his past two relationships have been with wealthy, vulnerable women that have apparently financially supported him or does he target that type deliberately?
He was/is involved in some seemingly dodgy social media finance venture. He doesn’t seem to have a job otherwise.
After ringing the police (as he should have) he made vindictive comments to Caroline about how the phone call would affect her reputation. I think it was something like “you’re ducked now”. I think this indicates he was motivated not only by self-protection.
Despite publicly appearing to support her and not pressing charges, I think he was manipulative and enjoyed Caroline’s downfall in the end. After all, he sent an ex girlfriend a photo of Caroline’s blood all over the bed (why would you think to do that? Taking a pic as evidence is one thing but sending it to an ex partner is another) which he would have known could easily get into the hands of the media and inflame the situation.
He also quickly started a new relationship with someone who, if not friends with Caroline certainly seemed to be closely connected to her life. This relationship was said to have begun at a memorial for Caroline, which I think speaks volumes about how he really felt about Caroline.
Caroline abused him that night and he was a victim but, in my opinion, he is an immoral, manipulative, parasitic grease ball.
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