I just read the fail article about the friends who are in/out etc. I don't know much about the situation in more detail than that but a couple of times it states that Caroline wasn't happy with Lottie being in contact with Lewis , I'm wondering if it was Lottie who she found to be messaging Lewis, not that it matters now or changes anything.
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Someone (not sure if Lottie manager or PR) said that they only met after Caroline passed which I’ve then read was at memorial / wake for her. I would have thought their paths would have crossed whilst Caroline was alive though given Lottie and Lou’s friendship
I know this is unpopular opinion across the board with the nation (it seems) but Caroline was a domestic abuser who showed predatory behaviour towards young men. I say this as someone who has worked in criminal and family court, and alongside children’s services.
Mental illness does not make you a domestic abuser. Addiction does not. It can exacerbate behaviours and motivations that are already there but not cause them. I think those things being used as excuses for her behaviour just increases stigma around these issues to be honest. I’m a recovering addict for many years but I wasn’t a domestic abuser in addiction or out. Lundy Bancroft wrote an excellent book about DA called “why does he do it” but it applies across the board.
The family can claim this was a witch hunt all they want but they had a lot of evidence, history and police information in order to proceed as they did. It’s also not uncommon for victims, especially men, to not support prosecution, especially when the Perpetrator weaponises mental health, or has something over them. Or has a PR team around them.
The “Be Kind” stuff really pissed me off at the time. How kind was Caroline when she was assaulting her partners? I’m NOT saying she should have been hounded but she was facing the consequence of her actions, as she should. Does that mean no one should face Justice because they have mental health issues?
Why shouldn’t he have moved on? And I do not understand why the mother keeps rehashing this - no amount of PR from them will convince me of anything other than the above unless there is evidence of some great conspiracy.
Mental illness does not make you a domestic abuser. Addiction does not. It can exacerbate behaviours and motivations that are already there but not cause them. I think those things being used as excuses for her behaviour just increases stigma around these issues to be honest. I’m a recovering addict for many years but I wasn’t a domestic abuser in addiction or out. Lundy Bancroft wrote an excellent book about DA called “why does he do it” but it applies across the board.
The family can claim this was a witch hunt all they want but they had a lot of evidence, history and police information in order to proceed as they did. It’s also not uncommon for victims, especially men, to not support prosecution, especially when the Perpetrator weaponises mental health, or has something over them. Or has a PR team around them.
The “Be Kind” stuff really pissed me off at the time. How kind was Caroline when she was assaulting her partners? I’m NOT saying she should have been hounded but she was facing the consequence of her actions, as she should. Does that mean no one should face Justice because they have mental health issues?
Why shouldn’t he have moved on? And I do not understand why the mother keeps rehashing this - no amount of PR from them will convince me of anything other than the above unless there is evidence of some great conspiracy.
Couldn’t agree more. I actually don’t think it’s unpopular the more her mum continues this. All it’s doing is reminding people of Caroline’s problematic dating history, domestic abuse and that she was dealing with difficult mental health.
The in/out piece just felt like a PR piece for everyone involved. No publicity is bad publicity, etc.
I'm starting to think that Lundy Bancroft should be added to the national curriculum. That book is eye-opening, and Bancroft has made it available for free online too.
On topic: If Caroline's mother keeps talking she is going to sink what little is left of her family's reputation.
I would like to add a couple of things to what I said - there was a highly distressing 999 call from the victim, Caroline herself admitted she hit him and this was done whilst he was asleep. But according to Flack’s mother this wasn’t domestic abuse?
Similarly, her mother claims she was treated differently because of who she was and she “could have been sent home” Why? She was arrested, she was being treated like everyone else. “Caroline‘s Law” was another staggering bit of arrogance and special treatment expectation - some of this was open court proceedings and EVERY case of public interest within the law can be reported (with exceptions of course). Similarly, the press reported all the usual stuff it would so she wasn’t getting special treatment there. She was getting the same as any male celebrity perpetrator would be treated.
The cynic in me would say Caroline was less worried about “being shown in a vulnerable light” on Bodycam footage as she was her admission being exposed. Her own legal team allegedly told her to plead guilty.
It is also not uncommon for CPS to reject cases and forces to appeal. This is not indicative of a witchhunt but rather the painful process of the law. People who don’t work in the field wouldn’t necessarily be aware of this, and this along with Caroline’s mother’s attempts at emotional manipulation of the public means people can sort of buy into this narrative sometimes.
What boils my piss the most is the mother saying he was messaging other women. Even if he was, he doesn’t deserve to be assaulted or abused. I know the mother is in grief but how she behaves is beyond contempt. Where is her own culpability?
Similarly, her mother claims she was treated differently because of who she was and she “could have been sent home” Why? She was arrested, she was being treated like everyone else. “Caroline‘s Law” was another staggering bit of arrogance and special treatment expectation - some of this was open court proceedings and EVERY case of public interest within the law can be reported (with exceptions of course). Similarly, the press reported all the usual stuff it would so she wasn’t getting special treatment there. She was getting the same as any male celebrity perpetrator would be treated.
The cynic in me would say Caroline was less worried about “being shown in a vulnerable light” on Bodycam footage as she was her admission being exposed. Her own legal team allegedly told her to plead guilty.
It is also not uncommon for CPS to reject cases and forces to appeal. This is not indicative of a witchhunt but rather the painful process of the law. People who don’t work in the field wouldn’t necessarily be aware of this, and this along with Caroline’s mother’s attempts at emotional manipulation of the public means people can sort of buy into this narrative sometimes.
What boils my piss the most is the mother saying he was messaging other women. Even if he was, he doesn’t deserve to be assaulted or abused. I know the mother is in grief but how she behaves is beyond contempt. Where is her own culpability?
The canonizing of her is what I find most bizzare, she was a bang average presenter most widely known for her relationships.
What exactly is her mum trying to achieve? Caroline wasn’t wronged, she unfortunately broke the law and was unable to deal with how the consequences made her feel, putting the blame on her friends is misplaced.
Perhaps misplaced anger at for not showing up herself? I struggle to see how she is going to garner more sympathy in this sad situation.
What exactly is her mum trying to achieve? Caroline wasn’t wronged, she unfortunately broke the law and was unable to deal with how the consequences made her feel, putting the blame on her friends is misplaced.
Perhaps misplaced anger at for not showing up herself? I struggle to see how she is going to garner more sympathy in this sad situation.
Her mum would be better placed to use her platform and Caroline’s legacy to support a documentary looking at borderline personality disorder (which CF clearly had) and the links to suicide or mental illness etc.
Literally nothing will be gained from another deep dive into her death, even if they did conclude that the friends left her when they should have stayed - does that make them guilty of her death?
A better use of time and money would be bankrolling a proper documentary to shine the light on personality disorders or mental illness in high functioning (or appear to be) people.
Literally nothing will be gained from another deep dive into her death, even if they did conclude that the friends left her when they should have stayed - does that make them guilty of her death?
A better use of time and money would be bankrolling a proper documentary to shine the light on personality disorders or mental illness in high functioning (or appear to be) people.
I agree with this. I find it really problematic the friends being blamed, they tried to get her help with calling the ambulance which was refused.
They had their own lives that they needed and wanted to get home to. Mum needs to start looking at herself if she really needs someone to blame, where was she, and how did this all begin?
Although at the end of the day, there is no blame to be placed on anyone else. Caroline made her own choice, as difficult as that may be to understand. Her life, her choice to end it. I would always recommend a call to The Samaritans if you are feeling that way, they can help you through the moment, or at the least just sit and listen to how you feel
They had their own lives that they needed and wanted to get home to. Mum needs to start looking at herself if she really needs someone to blame, where was she, and how did this all begin?
Although at the end of the day, there is no blame to be placed on anyone else. Caroline made her own choice, as difficult as that may be to understand. Her life, her choice to end it. I would always recommend a call to The Samaritans if you are feeling that way, they can help you through the moment, or at the least just sit and listen to how you feel
I think being in 'Showbiz' wasn't the best place for someone who had a long history of mental health issues like Caroline had.
I appreciate she was probably a lovely person but she did thump her half wit boyfriend (weren't there also allegations she thumped a previous boyfriend as well) and usually if you thump someone and leave your bedroom covered in blood, it will have criminal repercussions.
And sometimes in life you have to own up to your mistakes, put your big girls pants on and deal with it!!!
The fact Caroline turned up at court wearing a mini skirt and low cut blouse on a freezing cold day, for me highlighted how she was a bit disconnected from real life.
I do feel sorry for her family and friends. Would feel sorry for anyone's family and friends.
But it might be best to celebrate the woman she was, rather than trying to blame folk.
And maybe her mum should have babysat her 24/7 if she was so concerned about her. Rather than. Expect Caroline's friends to provide the support.
I appreciate she was probably a lovely person but she did thump her half wit boyfriend (weren't there also allegations she thumped a previous boyfriend as well) and usually if you thump someone and leave your bedroom covered in blood, it will have criminal repercussions.
And sometimes in life you have to own up to your mistakes, put your big girls pants on and deal with it!!!
The fact Caroline turned up at court wearing a mini skirt and low cut blouse on a freezing cold day, for me highlighted how she was a bit disconnected from real life.
I do feel sorry for her family and friends. Would feel sorry for anyone's family and friends.
But it might be best to celebrate the woman she was, rather than trying to blame folk.
And maybe her mum should have babysat her 24/7 if she was so concerned about her. Rather than. Expect Caroline's friends to provide the support.
Completely agree re the doc. Opening up a conversation about personality disorders would be a good legacy for Caroline, rather than this current shitshow.
But that involves her mum realising that Caroline probably couldn’t have been saved by anyone.
Bit late to the party, but as someone with a diagnosed personality disorder I'd be so on board with that as it's so swept under the rug.
I think it's far more prevalent that most people realise, and could really help others identify it in themselves or their own relationships.
I've got BPD which a lot have armchair diagnosed Caroline with, so can I understand how she got to where she did, of course I can, but can I agree with it, absolutely not.
But luckily for me I've a supportive partner, family and friends and am not in the public eye.
Edited to add that I'm not in anyway implying that Caroline's nearest and dearest weren't supportive, but without a diagnosis how do you know how to support correctly and also safeguard yourself at the same time?
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I’m confused as I thought they establish in the end she didn’t throw the lamp she threw his phone at him when she found the texts.
The Mother should take in to consideration what Caroline would have wanted after her death. Not all this publicity and bad feeling for sure
I know everyone will come down hard on me but imo/experience, The Samaritans aren’t the best option. It very m, very difficult to get through, when you do they tell you to talk to a friend or family member and time is up. When you are in deep despair I think you need someone with you who will hang on in there with you.I agree with this. I find it really problematic the friends being blamed, they tried to get her help with calling the ambulance which was refused.
They had their own lives that they needed and wanted to get home to. Mum needs to start looking at herself if she really needs someone to blame, where was she, and how did this all begin?
Although at the end of the day, there is no blame to be placed on anyone else. Caroline made her own choice, as difficult as that may be to understand. Her life, her choice to end it. I would always recommend a call to The Samaritans if you are feeling that way, they can help you through the moment, or at the least just sit and listen to how you feel
No one knows. He said he thought it was a lamp, she said it was her phone. As it never went to court, no one will ever know
Which many people do not have and it's a really tall order to expect someone else to do this..no matter how close they are to the sufferer.
As for The Samaritans...it's a very limited service which depends very much on who takes the call and how competent they are.
I think it's irrelevant what she used. It's a highly highly abusive move to attack someone while they're asleep. Imagine if he was medically unconscious... No difference really.
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