Anti Conspiracy Theories #6 wakey, wakey!

[Missymoo92]

Chemo is sort of a poison, not in chemical structure but in how its so hard on people, but sadly its one of the most effective tools we have at the moment against cancer. Its why we have highly trained specialists monitor the use of it.

I've seen in multiple family members when medicine doesn't work exactly how doctors hope it will they turn very quickly on the medical professionals and assume they must be to blame.

I get that chemotherapy has horrendous side effects and for so many it makes them even more unwell. I think the point I'm trying to make is she seems to be dismissing the doctors as conspiring against her by giving her chemo and how the cancer is because of the vaccine (see also "wake up people/sheep")

It's just my opinion and I can't help but compare after watching Deborah James documentary the other night - worth a watch btw - the difference in their attitudes towards tackling their illness is astonishing. This ladies cancer is early stages as well so very high chance of survival etc but she seems to have given up.

To quote Deborah in her documentary "if you want to be miserable, be miserable". She could learn a thing or two from her!

 

[mcfeez]

I get that chemotherapy has horrendous side effects and for so many it makes them even more unwell. I think the point I'm trying to make is she seems to be dismissing the doctors as conspiring against her by giving her chemo and how the cancer is because of the vaccine (see also "wake up people/sheep")

It's just my opinion and I can't help but compare after watching Deborah James documentary the other night - worth a watch btw - the difference in their attitudes towards tackling their illness is astonishing. This ladies cancer is early stages as well so very high chance of survival etc but she seems to have given up.

To quote Deborah in her documentary "if you want to be miserable, be miserable". She could learn a thing or two from her!

Absolutely. There are people who stop treatment simply as they don't want to suffer the symptoms and that is their choice, but to do so as you think your doctors have an agenda is just mind blowing. It must be so frustrating for some of the people in her life.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Chemo is sort of a poison, not in chemical structure but in how its so hard on people, but sadly its one of the most effective tools we have at the moment against cancer. Its why we have highly trained specialists monitor the use of it.

I've seen in multiple family members when medicine doesn't work exactly how doctors hope it will they turn very quickly on the medical professionals and assume they must be to blame.

Yeah, unfortunately traditional chemotherapy drugs which are cytotoxic (essentially meaning toxic to cells) compounds aren’t able to differentiate between healthy tissues and uncontrollably dividing cancerous cells, which is why you end up with all of the horrendous side effects. The particular mechanism of a cytotoxic drug depends on it’s chemical structure and which class it belongs to, but generally they work by disrupting the process of DNA replication, either by interfering with enzymes involved in different stages of the cell cycle or by directly interacting with the DNA itself.

However, it’s not the only way and there are a lot of newer drugs available these days as well as ‘targeted therapies’ which specifically destroy only cancerous cells. With targeted therapies, researchers attempt to identify proteins which are over expressed specifically in cancerous cells but not in normal healthy cells, and use them as drug targets. That way the drug only attacks the cells which are cancerous and not healthy cells, meaning you end up with far less side effects than you would with older chemotherapy drugs, It’s super interesting and a very important area of drug R&D atm.

 

[Missymoo92]

Absolutely. There are people who stop treatment simply as they don't want to suffer the symptoms and that is their choice, but to do so as you think your doctors have an agenda is just mind blowing. It must be so frustrating for some of the people in her life.

I feel sorry for her husband and kids. The chemo was to give her the best chance of cancer not returning (it was removed by surgery but it's just that extra peace of mind) She sits around with a mardy face on her moaning how she can't do anything, yet Deborah's cancer was terminal and yet she lived those last few years to the fullest.

All her stories are the latest conspiracy - such as that food one I mean seriously? She lives on soup slop now and nothing else, because she believes everything is poisoned to kill us. Jesus, life is for bleeping living. It's either that or talking stories of her saying "I can't do this, and I can't do that". Never focuses on what she CAN do.

The other day she was whinging about the rain and I was half expecting her to suggest that was all a big conspiracy against her
---

Yeah, unfortunately traditional chemotherapy drugs which are cytotoxic (essentially meaning toxic to cells) compounds aren’t able to differentiate between healthy tissues and uncontrollably dividing cancerous cells, which is why you end up with all of the horrendous side effects. The particular mechanism of a cytotoxic drug depends on it’s chemical structure and which class it belongs to, but generally they work by disrupting the process of DNA replication, either by interfering with enzymes involved in different stages of the cell cycle or by directly interacting with the DNA itself.

However, it’s not the only way and there are a lot of newer drugs available these days as well as ‘targeted therapies’ which specifically destroy only cancerous cells. With targeted therapies, researchers attempt to identify proteins which are over expressed specifically in cancerous cells but not in normal healthy cells, and use them as drug targets. That way the drug only attacks the cells which are cancerous and not healthy cells, meaning you end up with far less side effects than you would with older chemotherapy drugs, It’s super interesting and a very important area of drug R&D atm.

Agreed. At the end of the day, doctors and nurses administering chemo do so because...well currently there is no other way to help it or prolong life? And yes it's tit, is awful for those with cancer and their families. But the doctors aren't out to get you.

Oh she also moans about teachers which fucks me off big time. She needs a thread really but her account isn't big enough but she's definitely a unique conspiracy theorist I've come across recently

 

[Deeznutslol]

Agreed. At the end of the day, doctors and nurses administering chemo do so because...well currently there is no other way to help it or prolong life? And yes it's tit, is awful for those with cancer and their families. But the doctors aren't out to get you.

Oh she also moans about teachers which fucks me off big time. She needs a thread really but her account isn't big enough but she's definitely a unique conspiracy theorist I've come across recently

Yes, sadly sometimes it’s the only thing we’ve got. Unfortunately people do tend to be scared of things they don’t understand, it does seem really counterintuitive to put what is essentially a toxic chemical into your body when you’re already ill, but sometimes it has to be done and that’s why just have to trust that your doctors know what is best, and not what some guy on facebook is saying.
As I say though, cancer treatments have come on leaps and bounds in recent years and there are lots of new drugs are on the horizon. I have nothing but hope for the future when it comes to treating this awful disease.

 

[mcfeez]

Yeah, unfortunately traditional chemotherapy drugs which are cytotoxic (essentially meaning toxic to cells) compounds aren’t able to differentiate between healthy tissues and uncontrollably dividing cancerous cells, which is why you end up with all of the horrendous side effects. The particular mechanism of a cytotoxic drug depends on it’s chemical structure and which class it belongs to, but generally they work by disrupting the process of DNA replication, either by interfering with enzymes involved in different stages of the cell cycle or by directly interacting with the DNA itself.

However, it’s not the only way and there are a lot of newer drugs available these days as well as ‘targeted therapies’ which specifically destroy only cancerous cells. With targeted therapies, researchers attempt to identify proteins which are over expressed specifically in cancerous cells but not in normal healthy cells, and use them as drug targets. That way the drug only attacks the cells which are cancerous and not healthy cells, meaning you end up with far less side effects than you would with older chemotherapy drugs, It’s super interesting and a very important area of drug R&D atm.

I've been reading a little bit about the mRNA vaccine that is being worked on for people who have suffered melanoma - they can use proteins found in previous tumours to enable the vaccine to target any potentially recurring cancer cells and stop them in their tracks. It sounds like incredible medicine. And yet even it was getting bizarre reactions on twitter, the usual comments I'm sure you can imagine.

 

[Missymoo92]

Yes, sadly sometimes it’s the only thing we’ve got. Unfortunately people do tend to be scared of things they don’t understand, it does seem really counterintuitive to put what is essentially a toxic chemical into your body when you’re already ill, but sometimes it has to be done and that’s why just have to trust that your doctors know what is best, and not what some guy on facebook is saying.
As I say though, cancer treatments have come on leaps and bounds in recent years and there are lots of new drugs are on the horizon. I have nothing but hope for the future when it comes to treating this awful disease.

Absolutely there's got to be hope and when people like Deborah have made a difference with awareness and funding, we can only hope for a massive breakthrough

 

[Deeznutslol]

I've been reading a little bit about the mRNA vaccine that is being worked on for people who have suffered melanoma - they can use proteins found in previous tumours to enable the vaccine to target any potentially recurring cancer cells and stop them in their tracks. It sounds like incredible medicine. And yet even it was getting bizarre reactions on twitter, the usual comments I'm sure you can imagine.

Yeah, it’s absolutely fascinating to be honest and so far the trials are going well. It seems that they’re already looking at moving to stage 3 clinical trials which is really promising!
Ah I’m not surprised tbh. People really need to get over mRNA vaccine technology though because it’s something which has been in development for years and it’s here to stay.

 

[Ensay]

In relation to your post there's a woman on Instagram - I've not shown her name because she's not got a thread - who spouts this all over her stories. She's got cancer, which is awful obviously but she's saying it's the vaccine and young people getting cancer is all because of the vaccine.

She's now stopped chemo because she says it's poison and is relying on essential oils and healthy food to cure her cancer..

Just leave this here which she came out with today.. duck me...



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That's really sad. I mean that in a genuine way, given she's severely reducing the likelihood she'll recover. I suppose it shows how dangerous believing in conspiracy theories can be - though obviously this is an extreme example.

I recently saw another CT rearing its head on Twitter and that's the one about sunblock being bad for people. They say there's a lot of harmful chemicals in sunblock and they only exist to make money. They say things like "all animals and plants need the sun to survive, so how can it be bad?" and so on.

I don't think they deny sunburn is caused by the sun -- given how obvious it is -- but their narrative causes distrust in sunblock which could be very harmful if people avoid it due to being scared of its effects and then go in the full summer sun anyway.

 

[Missymoo92]

That's really sad. I mean that in a genuine way, given she's severely reducing the likelihood she'll recover. I suppose it shows how dangerous believing in conspiracy theories can be - though obviously this is an extreme example.

I recently saw another CT rearing its head on Twitter and that's the one about sunblock being bad for people. They say there's a lot of harmful chemicals in sunblock and they only exist to make money. They say things like "all animals and plants need the sun to survive, so how can it be bad?" and so on.

I don't think they deny sunburn is caused by the sun -- given how obvious it is -- but their narrative causes distrust in sunblock which could be very harmful if people avoid it due to being scared of its effects and then go in the full summer sun anyway.

Exactly, whilst the tumor was removed, she's basically increasing the risk it will return, which the chemotherapy would have hopefully stopped/or at least helped significantly.

Funny you mention that about sunscreen, she's also refusing to wear make up because apparently that's all full of poison too. People like this should just not bloody leave the house. There's risks we take daily just crossing the road etc. Wearing some foundation and eating a biscuit won't bleeping kill you

 

[ikayimonoko]

Agreed. At the end of the day, doctors and nurses administering chemo do so because...well currently there is no other way to help it or prolong life? And yes it's tit, is awful for those with cancer and their families. But the doctors aren't out to get you.

Imagine how demoralising this is for consultants just trying to do their best. My husband experiences more and more insane conspiracy theorists at work - patients quoting 'research' they've found online and printing it off to bring in.

 

[Missymoo92]

Imagine how demoralising this is for consultants just trying to do their best. My husband experiences more and more insane conspiracy theorists at work - patients quoting 'research' they've found online and printing it off to bring in.

Big respect to your husband and every single one of his colleagues for every stupid conspiracy theorist there are hundreds of people supporting their work xx

 

[Deeznutslol]

Looks like I’ve got the CTists on incoherent rant mode tonight after my response to misinformation being spread by the ‘doctor’ () got moved to the vaccine discussion . How are you supposed to have a discussion with someone who refuses to respond to any of the points that you made in your initial argument, then proceeds to hammer out paragraphs consisting of incoherent nonsense, youtube videos and information that they’ve pulled from dailyfail articles / their arse?

 

[greenvelvet]

Tbh as far as I can see the risk factors for being a CTer tend to be a low level of education and a sense of general resentment, low levels of trust and a defensive ego.

When the resentment is aimed at both the system and other people, and they don’t like facing their own lack of education, that’s where they tend to blossom into conspiracy theorists. They isolate themselves from others, especially people/sources that know more than they do, and that enables them to preserve their delusion. Some of them are also in denial about their own mortality IMO.

I think they are intimidated by the complexity of certain issues and rather trying to learn to understand or put their hands up and admit they don’t know, they create a fiction where they understand it all and other people are the sheep. It’s like the idea of a napoleon complex except with intelligence rather than height

 

[MaineCoonMama]

Tbh as far as I can see the risk factors for being a CTer tend to be a low level of education and a sense of general resentment, low levels of trust and a defensive ego.

When the resentment is aimed at both the system and other people, and they don’t like facing their own lack of education, that’s where they tend to blossom into conspiracy theorists. They isolate themselves from others, especially people/sources that know more than they do, and that enables them to preserve their delusion. Some of them are also in denial about their own mortality IMO.

I think they are intimidated by the complexity of certain issues and rather trying to learn to understand or put their hands up and admit they don’t know, they create a fiction where they understand it all and other people are the sheep. It’s like the idea of a napoleon complex except with intelligence rather than height

Interesting, I left school at 16 and have no real further education or qualifications- I'm very aware of my lack of formal education so I triple check any type of information I'm giving others, especially health related or if it's going to freak people out.
I'm naturally suspicious so if something sounds a bit 'off' I'll look at it from every angle and try to make an informed choice instead of trying to look like I know what I'm talking about and if I don't know I'll just go quiet or ask someone to explain.
Like I said, interesting post and I love the Napoleon analogy at the end.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Tbh as far as I can see the risk factors for being a CTer tend to be a low level of education and a sense of general resentment, low levels of trust and a defensive ego.

When the resentment is aimed at both the system and other people, and they don’t like facing their own lack of education, that’s where they tend to blossom into conspiracy theorists. They isolate themselves from others, especially people/sources that know more than they do, and that enables them to preserve their delusion. Some of them are also in denial about their own mortality IMO.

I think they are intimidated by the complexity of certain issues and rather trying to learn to understand or put their hands up and admit they don’t know, they create a fiction where they understand it all and other people are the sheep. It’s like the idea of a napoleon complex except with intelligence rather than height

I used to think it was about level of education/intelligence but now I personally think it’s more to do with personality. It takes a special type of person to think that you can uncover government secrets blogs and social media. I understand being scared of vaccines because at the end of the day, unless you’re educated about medicines/vaccines in general, I can appreciate it’s not easy to get your head around how they work, especially when you hear things like ‘mRNA’, chemicals with long names etc. However, at the end of the day that’s why you need to just trust the scientists and healthcare professionals who, whether you want to accept it or not, do in fact know far better than the average Joe who spouts off about about vaccines on facebook.

 

[greenvelvet]

Interesting, I left school at 16 and have no real further education or qualifications- I'm very aware of my lack of formal education so I triple check any type of information I'm giving others, especially health related or if it's going to freak people out.
I'm naturally suspicious so if something sounds a bit 'off' I'll look at it from every angle and try to make an informed choice instead of trying to look like I know what I'm talking about and if I don't know I'll just go quiet or ask someone to explain.
Like I said, interesting post and I love the Napoleon analogy at the end.

Yes completely, it’s not enough to not be educated on its own and tbh it’s more likely that a moderately educated person with the right personality will veer into that path. It’s about the resentment and low trust for others and how you handle not knowing something I think (along with how much you don’t know)

A good example is my mum and her brother - both left school with no formal qualifications. My mum is a complete anti CT person & is always learning, open to new info etc, quite trusting but not too much, values the opinions of qualified people and scientists like deeznutslol mentioned. My uncle is a bitter and tbh quite nasty person who spends a lot of time alone - he is a CT theorist

thank you!

 

[shadowcat5]

I think there are multiple different camps.

I think in the US in particular, there’s this idea of oppression of groups that are not facing any kind of oppression at all. I don’t know whether it’s the rise in human rights campaigns (blm, trans rights etc) or the internet (or both) but I feel like people are obsessed with the idea that their rights are being infringed upon despite not knowing what that would be like at all.

that and some have 0 critical thinking skills. Those are the “well it’s on Facebook so it must be true” types where you just want to be like “Linda look, no one if forcing you to have a vaccine, no one is tracking you while you do your grocery shop at Aldi and your weekly trip to town on the bus to buy tit you don’t need in savers, and no one, not the US, not the Russians, not even the Chinese, are tapping into your phone to read your conversations on the group chat with dinnerlady brenda, brenda who used to work in Debenhams and Sharon from Pilates about how Charlene gave you a funny look in bingo the other week. It’s just not happening ok!!”

 

[greenvelvet]

They are such angry people half the time too like you rarely get one delicately expressing concern about the vaccine or being polite about it - they so often call others thick as pig tit, a sheep, or some other barnyard based insult. Take a chill pill !!

 

[Missymoo92]

They are such angry people half the time too like you rarely get one delicately expressing concern about the vaccine or being polite about it - they so often call others thick as pig tit, a sheep, or some other barnyard based insult. Take a chill pill !!

This! It's always "Sheep!" "Educate yourself!" Or "Wake up people!"