Anti Conspiracy Theories #6 wakey, wakey!

[lamaitresse]

The newspapers reporting several deaths now as 'died suddenly' are really getting on my wick. They never used that word prior to the DS movement. It seems to me they're deliberately using the phrase as clickbait to gain readers, which inevitably only adds fuel to the unfounded vaccine/mass deaths conspiracy. This ironically detracts from genuine cases of vaccine injury which aren't taken as seriously because of these anti-covid vax suspicions surrounding every single person's death. Christ, did no one ever die before now?! Even the Guardian's at it...

Well, yes. I do hear a few who are into the "burn down 5G towers" belief system continually commenting on any media story that uses "died suddenly" as a description.

I think the mindset is that it's a flag for something more sinister - usually COVID jab / cardiovascular complications. I don't agree with burning down 5G towers as it doesn't hold up when you look at it scientifically, but there's definitely something afoot with the jabs and the health risks, only now being discussed and coming to light (Pfizer, at least).

What's the DS movement?

DS = Deep State, I think.
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Also, about moon landing deniers. Buzz Aldrin responded in his own inimitable fashion (albeit about 20 years ago). Bart Sibrel is the punchee.

Background here: https://www.cntraveller.in/story/buzz-aldrin-punched-moon-landing-denier/

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

What's the DS movement?

Sorry to be unclear, I just meant the 'Died Suddenly' movement.

 

[Ensay]

Strange how yelling views and handing out banners to strangers in an enclosed space is celebrated by some when they agree with the message. Pretty sure I know what they’d say about such behaviour if they didn’t agree with what was being pushed.

Call me strange but I’ve got no interest in giving my opinions to strangers in public and I expect they have no interest in mine either. People just want their commute to be peaceful.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Strange how yelling views and handing out banners to strangers in an enclosed space is celebrated by some when they agree with the message. Pretty sure I know what they’d say about such behaviour if they didn’t agree with what was being pushed.

Call me strange but I’ve got no interest in giving my opinions to strangers in public and I expect they have no interest in mine either. People just want their commute to be peaceful.

Comes across as unhinged tbh, I’d genuinely be looking around for cameras thinking these guys have to be youtubers doing one of those social experiment videos lmao

 

[Ensay]

Comes across as unhinged tbh, I’d genuinely be looking around for cameras thinking these guys have to be youtubers doing one of those social experiment videos lmao

Yeah exactly! And I'd take a flyer because I'd be worried that if I didn't they'd see me as a target to convert and would start preaching directly at me haha.

But joking aside, CTs are fine online because you choose to go on the internet and can easily switch it off, but people don't deserve to have any message pushed on them when they're just trying to go about their daily business - regardless of what that message is.

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

If you are on the tube and someone stands at the end of the carriage and starts the public speaking the first reaction is 'FFS someone asking for money', then it goes to 'thank fck but I still have to avoid eye contact' and then 'if I just take a leaflet they will not stop to talk to me'.
The dangers of the social credit system, yet this recorded and posted to twitter in exchange for getting loads of approvals (i.e. likes)


On one of the subjects raised here's someone at the WEF (remember them?) arguing against 15-minute cities being put forward as some fabulous utopia.

The 15-minute city meets human needs but leaves desires wanting | World Economic Forum

Whilst noting that people are given an outrageous degree of freedom by not actually being chained to a 15-minute radius, basically most euro cities aren't really that far off having everything in walking distance already (so why bother trying it) but US cities would fare quite badly, especially if someone declared 'this is now a 15-minute city' without actually doing anything to turn it into one.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

Interesting article, especially the point about lower education and numeracy levels being a factor in people's susceptibility to fake news and conspiracy theories. Comments are worth a look too:

Why are Britons so susceptible to fake news – and what can we do about it? | Sander van der Linden

With Putin’s Russia on its doorstep, Finland began arming its people against misinformation. It worked, says Sander van der Linden, a professor of social psychology

www.theguardian.com

 

[lamaitresse]

Interesting article, especially the point about lower education and numeracy levels being a factor in people's susceptibility to fake news and conspiracy theories. Comments are worth a look too:

Why are Britons so susceptible to fake news – and what can we do about it? | Sander van der Linden

With Putin’s Russia on its doorstep, Finland began arming its people against misinformation. It worked, says Sander van der Linden, a professor of social psychology

www.theguardian.com

Suppose it's easy to dismiss conspiracy theorists as at best naive, or at worst uneducated, but there's plenty of examples of professional people falling for some outlandish theories. Not that I'm sticking up for them, but even though I try to avoid generalising too much, there is something in it.

I've thought about that. Some who are invested in, say, the moon landings being fake, usually have no idea about science, physics or biology when you try to explain certain aspects to them. We had a neighbour who absolutely insisted the world was flat - and his source of information was Youtube videos, watched through his PS3 (he didn't own a computer or smartphone, so his internet access was a bit more limited).

Then of course there's the echo chambers of social media and forums - you also choose what you want to hear, won't listen to or comprehend nuance and are probably a bit stubborn or even paranoid (I'll avoid the mental health angle too much).

If you challenge someone and they instantly attack you (particularly annoying if you are quite a polite person IRL), that's a red flag as well. It's happened to me on Tattle quite recently - though he / she has form doing it to others, so it's just their skewed perception of anything outside their bubble (taking any ideas that shake their world view as a personal slight).

There's also a tendency, I suspect, for some to believe they are "special". Because they are privy to unique information the rest of the world that us poor blind idiots who don't agree with them aren't aware of. (The slurs "sheeple", "wake up", etc language imply superiority). Maybe it's a way of feeling important where you don't in other areas of your life?

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

Suppose it's easy to dismiss conspiracy theorists as at best naive, or at worst uneducated, but there's plenty of examples of professional people falling for some outlandish theories. Not that I'm sticking up for them, but even though I try to avoid generalising too much, there is something in it.

I've thought about that, some who are invested in, say, the moon landings being fake, usually have no idea about science, physics or biology when you try to explain certain aspects to them. We had a neighbour that absolutely insisted the world was flat - and his source of information was Youtube videos, watched through his PS3 (he didn't own a computer, so his internet access was a bit more limited).

Yes, it's interesting the emphasis on scientific and numerical literacy. So much of, say, the issues around covid hospitalisation and vaccination statistics, centred on the accurate (or not) interpretation of percentages, which in maths terms can be hard to grasp. If misunderstood those numbers could look very different and it's no wonder people were taken in if they didn't always have the maths/science/critical tools to properly interpret the information. The Finnish approach looks good. Wish we had a way here in the UK of combatting the crass Sun/Mail /Express dominance.

 

[L3moning]

Wish we had a way here in the UK of combatting the crass Sun/Mail /Express dominance.

It doesn't help that the alternatives (The Mirror and The Guardian) are prone to clickbait nonsense and have habit of printing absolute bunk in their opinion pieces respectively.

And off topic, but I love your username.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

Another story jumped on by anti-vaxxers, making false claims the 6 year old girl’s death was as a result of the Covid-19 vaccine.

Mother targeted by anti-vaxxers after 6-year-old daughter’s death

‘There was never a thought that it could be from the vaccine,’ mother says of daughter who suffered from chronic conditions

www.independent.co.uk

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

It doesn't help that the alternatives (The Mirror and The Guardian) are prone to clickbait nonsense and have habit of printing absolute bunk in their opinion pieces respectively.

And off topic, but I love your username.

Thanks re: the username. Yes the Guardian has gone weird and crappy lately with some op pieces though some of their main columnists like Marina Hyde and Polly Toynbee continue for me to produce some of the sanest journalism around.

 

[londongirl2001]

Another story jumped on by anti-vaxxers, making false claims the 6 year old girl’s death was as a result of the Covid-19 vaccine.

Mother targeted by anti-vaxxers after 6-year-old daughter’s death

‘There was never a thought that it could be from the vaccine,’ mother says of daughter who suffered from chronic conditions

www.independent.co.uk

And this is how they want to convince people of the allegedly deadly dangers of the vaccine? By viciously attacking the mother of a dead girl? There is no other way? Yeah, totally normal people who are just scared and want to warn others. Let’s bring them to the table for a completely rational discussion about the side effects of vaccines

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Swamp gas, weather balloons, a brilliant set of decoys and camouflage so nobody would spot the landing and what happens, it gets recorded on bloody dashcams and fancy doorbells

Meteoroid lights up sky above English Channel

People spotted the 1m space rock streaking across the sky in the early hours of Monday morning.

www.bbc.co.uk

So what's the klingon for "would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids"'...?

 

[shadowcat5]

Can someone please explain to me what this means 'shedding the DNA gene altering spike proteins' in relation to the covid vaccine

 

[Moth]

Can someone please explain to me what this means 'shedding the DNA gene altering spike proteins' in relation to the covid vaccine

It means you're talking to an idiot

 

[Moth]

It means you're talking to an idiot

But to indulge their fantasies ... as I understand it the vaccines introduce or cause the body to produce a spike protein. The spike protein is the part of a virus (including Coronavirus) that allows the virus to enter the cells. The body produces antibodies to combat the spike protein. Therefore if the virus enters the body after vaccination, the antibodies are already developed to fight it.

DNA is stored in the nucleus of a cell. MRNA vaccines don't enter the nucleus. Therefore MRNA vaccines don't alter your DNA

The suggestion is that after vaccination the body 'sheds' the spike proteins e.g. by breathing, just like the virus itself. These spike proteins are then inhaled (or whatever) by people who have not been vaccinated which causes them to suffer the same 'harms' as those who have been vaccinated.

This is nonsense. Spike proteins cannot be shed. Only a live virus can be shed. The MRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) don't contain live virus. AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccinations do contain a live virus but it is adenovirus not Coronavirus. Adenovirus does not replicate so cannot 'shed'.

That's the best that I can do based on my understanding but someone may be able to correct any mistakes that I have made.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Can someone please explain to me what this means 'shedding the DNA gene altering spike proteins' in relation to the covid vaccine

You are talking to someone who doesn’t understand how mRNA vaccines work if that’s what they’re trying to tell you.
As moth said, mRNA doesn’t interact with your DNA at all, nor does it alter any genes. The viral mRNA is taken up by cells which then use a protein structure known as a ribosome to ‘read’ this mRNA and translate it into a protein, that protein being the viral antigen for which the mRNA codes. These antigens are then released from the cell and your immune system recognizes them (in the same way that it would recognize an antigen made by a cell which was actually infected by the covid virus), produces antibodies and immunity against the virus.
And yeah, shedding is something which can only happen if a live attenuated virus is used as the vaccine component. It’s also extremely rare and has only ever happened with a small number of attenuated viral vaccines, which are either no longer used or only used in developing countries.

 

[shadowcat5]

Thank you @Moth and @Deeznutslol for your responses! This is why I love tattle because you guys are so smart!

When all has died down a bit, I will tell you the situation that lead to me asking that, cause it's funny

 

[Trixiebum]

You are talking to someone who doesn’t understand how mRNA vaccines work if that’s what they’re trying to tell you.
As moth said, mRNA doesn’t interact with your DNA at all, nor does it alter any genes. The viral mRNA is taken up by cells which then use a protein structure known as a ribosome to ‘read’ this mRNA and translate it into a protein, that protein being the viral antigen for which the mRNA codes. These antigens are then released from the cell and your immune system recognizes them (in the same way that it would recognize an antigen made by a cell which was actually infected by the covid virus), produces antibodies and immunity against the virus.
And yeah, shedding is something which can only happen if a live attenuated virus is used as the vaccine component. It’s also extremely rare and has only ever happened with a small number of attenuated viral vaccines, which are either no longer used or only used in developing countries.

Why are they still used in developing countries? Genuinely curious