Notice
Thread ordered by most liked posts - View normal thread.

Milktray

VIP Member
It riles me when people try to defend, and justify the reasons why the SW in these cases failed, it’s out and out neglect plain and simple.
Because SW as individuals are surrounded by too much red tape, ultimately they can't do very much.
The red tape needs cutting. They need SW back doing visits and making decisions and not sat in a office overwhelmed by paperwork and targets.

Children Services *as a whole* is not fit for purpose and has failed.

That being said, I really do not know how they allowed this family unit to exist in the first place. Those children should have been removed.

The youth needed a foster family who could deal with him, offered stimulation and aspirations away from violence, a family who had been used to teenagers with complex emotions...not an elderly couple.

Logan and the baby needed a separate family, away from the youth and away from JC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 13

Treesy19

VIP Member
I don’t believe you can rehabilitate evil. So him being out at 30 (or before, let’s face it, just like Jon Venables) is worrying. He looks like a nasty boy even just looking at him without knowing what he did tbh.
It’s who I thought it was, photo wise. If you look up Jay Cole on fb. A person called “Thomas Cole” has liked his picture.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 13

thaliamay

Chatty Member
I agree. It’s breaking my heart to keep reading about all these children suffering. No child should be abused, either sexually or violently or emotionally. Children are innocent and defenceless, it’s so sad.

I think sexual crimes should get as high a sentence as child murder, doesn’t matter if the child didn’t die, they’ve still been violated in the worst way possible.

I just find it sickening that so many mothers allow it to happen, and that there are so many people capable of hurting children.

I don’t have children, don’t want children, but I can’t stand seeing children being hurt by those that are meant to protect them.
I'm honestly of the opinion (perhaps unpopular!) that capital punishment should return for any serious crime involving a child (be it s!xual abuse, or murder). These people should lose any human rights they ever had, as anyone capable of hurting a child in some way does not belong in society & cannot be considered human.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 13
Youth is Craig Mulligan, stepbrother of Logan. Cole awarded custody of him a week before the murder, with AW’s support.
 
  • Wow
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 13

Gossngiggles

VIP Member
That BBC article with the juror is interesting, she is absolutely right to they should have proper support in place for jurors. With all that we know about trauma and mental health it is shocking really that it isn’t in place already

The programme tonight was upsetting. I was torn about Angharad during the trial but watching those interviews it is clear that she was guilty, her body language and the dramatics and fake crying. I bet the police were so happy to find enough evidence to charge her with murder.

As for the teen, I feel like he must have some kind of psychological issue. The way he behaved during interviews isn’t ‘normal’. So casual and unbothered, not upset or scared or worried, just very cold. He didn’t even pretend to be upset about Logan. During the trial there was information about his behaviour with his social worker which came across as really strange too,
I’m not trying to make excuses for his part in this by saying he must have issues just trying to make sense of how a kid can be so fucked up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12
I only found this thread on Sunday and read it over the next 2 days. I live near Pandy Park and often walk my dog through there to get to various routes around the area. I’m a morning walker, and am normally in the park around 8.30am, when parents are walking their children to school and nursery. I sometimes saw AW walking Logan to school, but always in the distance, even from a distance I could tell she was looking at her phone and paying scant attention to Logan. The only time I was close to them was in March of last year. I had taken my dog for an early morning appointment at the vet, it was foul day, cold with very heavy rain. I decided on the way home to take him quickly around Pandy park, on my way into the park I was walking toward them, she had her nose in her phone and I could see that she was scrolling. Logan was skipping behind and when he noticed my dog he beamed at him. He ran to AW and pointed toward us and said something, still smiling. She didn’t even look up or at him, but shoved him forward. She had no interest in that little boy. I remember coming home and telling my husband that I’d seen such a handsome little boy and he had a horrible mother.
I regularly saw JC in and around Sarn and he looks like what he is, a mindless thug. I believe that she actively played a part in the abuse and the attempted cover up.
Thanks for sharing this.

I imagine AW always put on an act for others, when she knew she was being watched and judged. That’s why she’s been described as overprotective by teachers, and a great mother by her own mother and friends. What you witnessed was the real AW, the default when she doesn’t think anyone of importance is watching. The self professed shit mother.

I hope your community is able to heal from this, I can’t imagine the shockwaves that must ripple through a place when something like this happens.

I'm honestly of the opinion (perhaps unpopular!) that capital punishment should return for any serious crime involving a child (be it s!xual abuse, or murder). These people should lose any human rights they ever had, as anyone capable of hurting a child in some way does not belong in society & cannot be considered human.
I’m a big fan of natural consequences, and that’s my main source of discipline with my son. Throw a toy and break it? Well, sorry kid, that toy is gone now, that’s the consequence, and maybe next time you’ll stop and think before throwing any other toys.

The truth is, for crimes as abhorrent as murder or SA of a child, the natural consequence is to be completely shunned from society. We’d be hard pushed to find people who’d open their arms to bring those kinds of offenders back into society. I’m all for rehabilitation, but the simple fact is I don’t want a child molester living next door to me or near my son. I don’t care if they did it 15 years ago, they are a risk I don’t want to deal with.

Although I stop short at saying capital punishment should be brought back, I think these sorts of offenders should be removed from society forever, as is the natural consequence of their despicable actions. I’d happily offer them the option of suicide if that was preferable to them. I don’t care, I just don’t want them near me or my precious family.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 12

thaliamay

Chatty Member
I understood the sentiment of your post perfectly well thanks. What sort of ‘evidence’ would be needed? Pictures of bruising? Because that was provided for Arthur and star. Concerns from very close family members and neighbours? Because that was provided for Arthur and star. Or would they need a dead body as proof?

I think you’ll find a lot of social workers did their follow up work over the telephone, and I know this as a friend of mine had her follow up appts by telephone, no visits offered due to covid. She has been trying to contact her daughters social worker for over a month, and nobody has got in touch with them still.. this is two years since the first lockdown began!

Logan’s father may very well have been denied contact and pushed out for this very reason, so would have more than likely been unaware of his circumstances. Nobody knows the situation with Ben Mwangi for certain, so I think that comment is unfair.

A case review will bring the usual bull, nothing will get done. I mean look at Sharon Shoesmith, head of haringey childrens services got sacked after massive failings were proved, and a damning report when baby p died. Claimed a huge payout (£700,000) years later for unfair dismissal. This was in 2007!!

fucking joke. Where’s the lessons?
Fucking hell she got a payout for unfair dismissal, seriously??? No what's unfair , unthinkable actually, is that Baby Peter was killed in the most horrendous way, by people who had proved time & time again to be unfit parents (that's putting it lightly) and she was found to have played a huge part, a huge failing thanks to her actions/inactions should I say, How dare she have the bare faced cheek to even try & gain from the situation financially. Bloody hell.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 12

Miss Perla

Active member
So I'm guessing there will be an enquiry and Social Services will announce "Lessons have been learned" Well somebody fcuked up royally in those SS offices because it
doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that this family unit should never have been allowed.
Whoever done this, they played a big part in that little boys death and they also have a lot to answer for. Honestly what planet are these child Safeguarding people living on
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12

Pulltheotherone

VIP Member
I am watching on catch up.
That poor little lad had no chance With these utter animals.
it hurts my heart but it’s going on in every town in every country.
No words.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 12
John Cole looks like a cave man.

I hope all three of them are haunted by what they every day for the rest of their lives.

And I hope they lift the reporting restrictions on the youth. He doesn’t deserve anonymity.

RIP Logan xxx
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11

catlady29

Chatty Member
Thank you Cat Lady.
I wonder when they will be sentenced. In Scotland it’s usually a month after conviction.
I think they are waiting on some kind of reports on the youth, I remember with Arthur, ET & TH I think got sentenced the next day. Hopefully it won't be long to wait, and I really hope they release the identity of the youth so that the full facts of the case can be discussed as I feel like there is a huge gap in knowledge due to the restrictions on saying anything about the youth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11

Sarahsauce

Well-known member
Has anyone been following the Sebastian Kalinowski trial? He was 15 and what his stepfather and his mother put him through was horrific. I think the judge is the same one who was on the Star Hobson case.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 11

Warriorqueen

VIP Member
That BBC article with the juror is interesting, she is absolutely right to they should have proper support in place for jurors. With all that we know about trauma and mental health it is shocking really that it isn’t in place already

The programme tonight was upsetting. I was torn about Angharad during the trial but watching those interviews it is clear that she was guilty, her body language and the dramatics and fake crying. I bet the police were so happy to find enough evidence to charge her with murder.

As for the teen, I feel like he must have some kind of psychological issue. The way he behaved during interviews isn’t ‘normal’. So casual and unbothered, not upset or scared or worried, just very cold. He didn’t even pretend to be upset about Logan. During the trial there was information about his behaviour with his social worker which came across as really strange too,
I’m not trying to make excuses for his part in this by saying he must have issues just trying to make sense of how a kid can be so fucked up.
I agree. Let’s face it, those two created that kid’s issues. He was put in care after being beaten by the incubator.

His behaviour has been cultivated by them and whilst he is obviously and correctly accountable, they too are equally culpable. I think the media are being blindsided by his age and the parents are being downgraded in responsibility.

My husband saw the case in passing on the news and didn’t even realise two grown adults (parent and step-parent) were involved because they were so invested in reporting mainly on the 14 yr old. It’s the media’s bloodlust for another Thompson and Venables to sell copy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11

Rippedjeanmaybe

VIP Member
I was wondering today what sort of sentences they'll be given. The youth's will obviously be shorter. I'm guessing JC's will be the longest because sentencing, as I understand it, also takes into account previous convictions (of which JC has more than AW - and his previous convictions are of a more serious nature than are AW's).
It got me thinking about Ian Watkins from lostprophets. He abused (or intended to abuse - I forget the precise details and am not keen on re-reading them) an infant of about a year old, I believe. I don't think think there was any suggestion that he intended to kill the child. Obviously, the abuse alone is dreadful. But he was found guilty by a jury and got a minimum of 29 years. Savannah Brockhill was also found guilty by a jury, and received a minimum of 25 years for murdering a child. I'm wondering why Ian Watkins got a longer sentence than Savannah Brockhill. Perhaps the crucial difference is intent - I think Watkins may have texted or written his intent in some manner and that therefore he couldn't spin it some other way or deny his intent.
I'm guessing (and hoping) that AW will get a minimum term of more than 20 years. But I suppose it's possible that her sentence will be in the teens.
I bet all three of them regret murdering Logan now. Not due to compassion though - only because of the negative impact it's having on their lives.
It’s quite often assessed on how dangerous they are to society and if they’re likely to reoffend. A disgusting vile paedophile like him deserves to rot behind bars for life as there’s no way he will ever change. He makes my skin crawl and he has 0 remorse.

I think the sentencing for SB was similar and rightly so, another vile creature that should never be allowed to see the light of day again.

I hope AW & JC both get similar lengthy sentences because again, they’re both evil, pure evil.

There’s two things I despise, child abusers/murderers & paedophiles 😡
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 10

Miss Perla

Active member
Does anyone think the judge will allow the youth to be named? He has been found guilty of abusing, murdering and disposing of that little boys body so his name and face should not be protected anymore. I also think (my opinion) that UK law on what we are actually told and shown needs to be relaxed. May sound gruesome but the true horrifying nature of these cases need to shock so that we dont turn a blind eye when you see or hear anything that could lead to a child dying in horrifying circumstances.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 10

Miss Perla

Active member
Logan had his lovely curls all cut off because that JC wanted him to look more like him. Was this just before he died?
Someone, probably the little shits SW must have lied to the family court because who would think they would make a nice family unit.
JC violent with previous convictions. 13yr old violent towards animals and children.
Logan 5 yr old and vulnerable was on child protection order only weeks before.
A baby that hasn't been mentioned and a neurotic mother with supposed mobility issues. Not forgetting 2 bedroom flat.
Oh sounds like a fab idea.!!
 
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Angry
Reactions: 10

Rippedjeanmaybe

VIP Member
No child should suffer like this & I'm sick of opening up the news to seeing more & more stories breaking of children being killed by parents/step-parents. When will it end 😔
I agree. It’s breaking my heart to keep reading about all these children suffering. No child should be abused, either sexually or violently or emotionally. Children are innocent and defenceless, it’s so sad.

I think sexual crimes should get as high a sentence as child murder, doesn’t matter if the child didn’t die, they’ve still been violated in the worst way possible.

I just find it sickening that so many mothers allow it to happen, and that there are so many people capable of hurting children.

I don’t have children, don’t want children, but I can’t stand seeing children being hurt by those that are meant to protect them.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 10

Miss Perla

Active member
I have just watched on catch up. Seeing the 3 of them and their behaviour . I had felt a bit sympathy towards Angharad until I seen her . I had thought she had been coerced by JC but my god seeing her made me realise they were all as bad as each other. I was disappointed with the documentary as I thought there was a lot of footage removed and it just seemed rushed!
There is no mention of their baby, no mention of the woman who Angharad was initially trying to blame. No mention of the youths history, JC violent past. Have social Services written lies in the reports that were presented to family court. JC AW were living between 2 houses so probably claiming benefits separately so why was that violent little shit allowed any where near Logan and his little brother. 5 days and he's calling Angharad Mam....so many unanswered questions.!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10