Im not sure TBH but I know most black people don't like to be called that today.
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No, it's very much an outdated term now. I've heard bigoted aruguements that, "they keep bloody changing what to say, can't keep up with it!"
A family friend was killed on his way to school in the early 90s in Kent by a group of white boys for being “coloured” (not black). This was before the Stephen Lawrence case. Progression comes through allies like yourselves challenging anti black sentiments in your social circles and communities as “all lives” can only matter when “black lives matter”.
I feel like a lot of people try to downplay how bad racism is in Britain. I also find that white people often immediately give the benefit of doubt to violent attackers/police, by creating imaginary scenarios. For example ‘But what if the black man did X’ or ‘We don’t know the full story, he could have resisted arrest’. Does resisting handcuffs warrant multiple bullets shot in the head? If your brother or sister was arrested with no reason would you say the same?
We must ask ourselves the question why do we always give the white attacker the benefit of doubt? And why are we so quick to find fault in the actions of the black victim? It is hard to own up to implicit racism, but it must be done. Because to me, it’s even worse than being explicitly racist eg name calling.
We must ask ourselves the question why do we always give the white attacker the benefit of doubt? And why are we so quick to find fault in the actions of the black victim? It is hard to own up to implicit racism, but it must be done. Because to me, it’s even worse than being explicitly racist eg name calling.
First I just want to ask that people read my whole post before maybe jumping me. I have an “issue” with calling it (it -for lack of a better term) “white” privilege.
That is grouping everyone who is “white” together. I’m Eastern European and a Jew and I’m considered “white”.
When we emigrated, as refugees, to America we lived in Detroit. We were poor as tit, on welfare and considered dirt. Our community was Eastern European, Africans, Indians and Turks mostly. We were hated by police and the population alike. We were “dirty immigrants stealing American jobs and their money. “.
And it still happens today esp with Eastern European, Balkan, immigrants and it’s fucked up. That’s the problem though, anyone from a different culture is just that - different.
Having lighter/white skin doesn’t make one immune from people’s prejudices.
To this day (due to 911) anytime I fly I get pulled for extra screening. I’ve asked each time why and they tell me because of my last name. And then they laugh and say I couldn’t be more “white” (dark blond w blue eyes) and they find it somehow amusing. How bleeping ignorant is that? It’s just engrained in the culture here.
Being a Jew in Eastern Europe we had our family massacred by the Germans, and our own goddamn countrymen pushed them into the trains gladly. People have fear, genuine fear and even today most of us (Eastern Europeans) don’t let people know we’re Jewish. To this day 99% of people I know don’t know I’m Jewish. I’m just a white woman to them.
I had black woman at work whom I’d tried to discuss racism with, actually tell me right off that “I’m white so have no right to talk” and that is ignorant as hell. She did apologize after, which was great bc we actually spoke and listened to one another.
My point is, that in America (and per this thread and white privilege terms) people assume I have white privilege. I sure as tit have not.
I think if we speak of generational WASPs here in America then yes it’s a fitting term but it’s not right to paint all people (w white or lighter skin) w the same brush.
We all have to watch how we “see others” bc making it a white vs black issue with no grey area is wrong.
Racism, discrimination is such a bleeping problem here in the US and we all have to stand up, speak up and do our part to stop it. I think people need to educate themselves and examine their beliefs and thoughts honestly. People need to talk to each other and ask questions and listen; and I mean to actually HEAR what people are saying.
Only then can change truly happen.
That is grouping everyone who is “white” together. I’m Eastern European and a Jew and I’m considered “white”.
When we emigrated, as refugees, to America we lived in Detroit. We were poor as tit, on welfare and considered dirt. Our community was Eastern European, Africans, Indians and Turks mostly. We were hated by police and the population alike. We were “dirty immigrants stealing American jobs and their money. “.
And it still happens today esp with Eastern European, Balkan, immigrants and it’s fucked up. That’s the problem though, anyone from a different culture is just that - different.
Having lighter/white skin doesn’t make one immune from people’s prejudices.
To this day (due to 911) anytime I fly I get pulled for extra screening. I’ve asked each time why and they tell me because of my last name. And then they laugh and say I couldn’t be more “white” (dark blond w blue eyes) and they find it somehow amusing. How bleeping ignorant is that? It’s just engrained in the culture here.
Being a Jew in Eastern Europe we had our family massacred by the Germans, and our own goddamn countrymen pushed them into the trains gladly. People have fear, genuine fear and even today most of us (Eastern Europeans) don’t let people know we’re Jewish. To this day 99% of people I know don’t know I’m Jewish. I’m just a white woman to them.
I had black woman at work whom I’d tried to discuss racism with, actually tell me right off that “I’m white so have no right to talk” and that is ignorant as hell. She did apologize after, which was great bc we actually spoke and listened to one another.
My point is, that in America (and per this thread and white privilege terms) people assume I have white privilege. I sure as tit have not.
I think if we speak of generational WASPs here in America then yes it’s a fitting term but it’s not right to paint all people (w white or lighter skin) w the same brush.
We all have to watch how we “see others” bc making it a white vs black issue with no grey area is wrong.
Racism, discrimination is such a bleeping problem here in the US and we all have to stand up, speak up and do our part to stop it. I think people need to educate themselves and examine their beliefs and thoughts honestly. People need to talk to each other and ask questions and listen; and I mean to actually HEAR what people are saying.
Only then can change truly happen.
I want to thank GossWhore for the post, its eyeopening.
I am white, very, I have white blonde hair and blue eyes. I am European. Today I realised that my whole life people have told me, indirectly maybe, that they way I look is worth more.
Since I was little people would tell me to be careful of men because they will hurt be based on my looks. I now realize they didnt mean any men, they meant black men. I know this now because they made me 'scared' of them because they might hurt pretty blonde blue eyed girls. I feel ashamed that this was thaught to me and that I probably believed it.
People like to use the phrase ; Well we are all racists.. That doesnt make it okay!
Sometimes people say Oh well my friend is Moraccon or black but its doesnt matter because they behave white so they arent really black, what an awful thing to say! And im sorry about that.
I realize I have it easy, I never have to be afraid that the colour of my skin is going to work against me. I feel guilt that I didnt understand what white privilege is or that I even took advantage of being white. Hopefully I can now educate myself and use every card Ive been dealt to help all people.
Sorry if the post is a mess but recent events have made me think a lot and the thoughts all jumble around.
I am white, very, I have white blonde hair and blue eyes. I am European. Today I realised that my whole life people have told me, indirectly maybe, that they way I look is worth more.
Since I was little people would tell me to be careful of men because they will hurt be based on my looks. I now realize they didnt mean any men, they meant black men. I know this now because they made me 'scared' of them because they might hurt pretty blonde blue eyed girls. I feel ashamed that this was thaught to me and that I probably believed it.
People like to use the phrase ; Well we are all racists.. That doesnt make it okay!
Sometimes people say Oh well my friend is Moraccon or black but its doesnt matter because they behave white so they arent really black, what an awful thing to say! And im sorry about that.
I realize I have it easy, I never have to be afraid that the colour of my skin is going to work against me. I feel guilt that I didnt understand what white privilege is or that I even took advantage of being white. Hopefully I can now educate myself and use every card Ive been dealt to help all people.
Sorry if the post is a mess but recent events have made me think a lot and the thoughts all jumble around.
Hey EiiEiiiO, I understand where you’re coming from, and no one would invalidate your experience of xenophobia as an immigrant in the US and the trauma of the holocaust.
Identity is many layers of race, gender, religion, citizenship or social status; we all have our own journeys with oppression and privilege. As you said, others see you as white and you’re likely granted advantages because of that. We have to confront these possibly uncomfortable realities, and I totally agree about opening dialogue.
Identity is many layers of race, gender, religion, citizenship or social status; we all have our own journeys with oppression and privilege. As you said, others see you as white and you’re likely granted advantages because of that. We have to confront these possibly uncomfortable realities, and I totally agree about opening dialogue.
The way I understand it is that there are different types of privilege. Anyone who is white, has white privilege. That doesn't mean they're privileged overall or that their life hasn't been difficult, or that they haven't been discriminated against. There are plenty of other forms of privilege based on religion, sexuality, gender, gender identity etc.
I am white so I have white privilege and have definitely experienced advantages due to that. I still am less privileged in other areas but white privilege is possibly one of the most prevalent at the moment.
Feel free to correct me of course if I'm incorrect.
I am white so I have white privilege and have definitely experienced advantages due to that. I still am less privileged in other areas but white privilege is possibly one of the most prevalent at the moment.
Feel free to correct me of course if I'm incorrect.
No we really don't. It takes me back to a time of evidential racism.
As I said black isn't a dirty term. The skin is the largest organ so you can definitely tell I'm black.
Correct. Like I'm be honest there were times when I was job hunting I submitted 2 applications. Same education, same work experience etc.
One had a more ethnic name. That one was rejected
One had a more European name. Interview stage.
I phoned their HR and imagine when they tried blaming me for falsifying an application????
Thank for your input. I understand where you are coming from.
And for me with my Jewish allies I feel they can identify well with some aspects of being marginalised and can speak on them i.e. you saying you don't tell people you're Jewish could make me question why and ask how in 2020 we can make people feel uncomfortable for being Jewish, black, Chinese. I have had friends "white-passing" whos other halves don't know they are black due to racism.
As I said white privilege isn't saying your suffering isn't valid, its saying none if it was due to the color of your skin.
Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack points out this like
- I can go shopping alone most of the time and not be followed or harassed
- I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented
- When pulled over by a cop, I don't think of being killed due to my color
- I can chose blemish cover or bandages, spanxs in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.
With regards to the woman you met at work. It's like how I approach white people. You get some who want to talk and some who don't. It's not your job to force them to and it's actually exhausting trying to. But I'm happy you were able to have a conversation with her in the end.
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Another one I read about was ballerinas shoes. They are white skin colour and were designed to elongate the legs of (white) dancers. It was only last year or the year before that ballet shoes were made in a tone that would suit other skin colours such as black. I had never even noticed that before and that is white privilege. Same with the band aids.
I believe crayola have just released a skin tone pack of crayons too so it’s more accurate with skin tone. From black to various tones.
Am I correct in saying that any reference to colour is insulting? I have always referred to black people as ‘black’ but I’ve also seen people say such in reference to ‘colour of skin’ for example and I’m just curious to know if that’s offensive or not. I can understand perhaps it’s dependant on the context
Thanks.
I will tell you why most of the people I know from Temple don’t tell.. because we still to this day in America have people firmly believing “the Jews control all the money, we conspire to keep people poor, Illuminati bullshit..and so on and so on.” I have listened to people go on about about Jews control everything and they’re mad and me thinking oh duck I hope they don’t find out.
Somehow Hitlers lies that we are at fault for others failings prevails to this day. And people still have an inherent distrust of Jews and dare I say, hatred of them. We are afraid to tell in all honesty (me and my Jewish friends, can’t speak for all Jews obv).
Hell even my dads side of the family hate Jews. I’ve always known to just keep my head down and not tell.
And yeah I’m lucky I guess bc I don’t “look Jewish” cause ya know, Jews look the same
but family and friends that “look Jewish” aren’t so lucky. Again not skin color but features so I get what you mean by how my skin color isn’t the factor. I empathize w what you were saying w the job applications. It’s despicable and pisses me off and they have some balls trying to put it on you.
Sadly it’s not going to ever change imo, yes I’m being a pessimist but truly what I believe.
When I was at college (a top university) It was always one of two things : if someone found out I was Jewish - ”ahh you’re a rich Jew so your parents got you in huh?” Or if saw my last name and it was - “ohh you're like the token immigrant we have to let in huh?” For duck sake.
It couldn’t be just that I busted my ass and deserved to get in and took out loans of 85,000$ to get an education.
I honestly have gotten to despise America. I hate being here. And esp these past 4 years with this piece of tit in power, people have become much more aggressive, emboldened even and ignorance is somehow lauded these days. Virulent racism and prejudice is somehow ok now - not surprising bc we have a ignorant piece of tit racist as a “leader”. Sadly imo it won’t get any better, I wish it would.
Things just get worse and worse and nothing changes.
I plan to go home to Romania and am putting away to do so in the next 5yrs.
I’ll still hide being a Jew (so that’s no different) and there are issues there too, I know that but it will be better than here. At least cops killing innocent blacks doesn’t happen every bleeping day, people shooting people bc they fail at being a normal human isn’t the norm; citizens gunning down a black man jogging and not get arrested till people explode isn’t bleeping common.. and a megalomaniac, racist psycho isn’t voted into power.
When my gran who has dementia went into a care home she would say things like “Lizzie is my carer, lovely girl, she’s coloured you know”.
She did it once or twice and my aunties gave her an education about what was acceptable to say.
Gran stopped using the term. In her 90s, with dementia. If she can learn, anyone can. There’s not a suitable excuse.
She did it once or twice and my aunties gave her an education about what was acceptable to say.
Gran stopped using the term. In her 90s, with dementia. If she can learn, anyone can. There’s not a suitable excuse.
you know, I’ve been reading seeing comments on twitter and Instagram on the protests... but I’m reading a lot that people aren’t happy that white people are protesting.
I think this is the issue, we don’t know how to help. We can speak on social media behind our keyboards but will that really help really? What should help is, white people being on the streets and standing strong as a unit. But, the amount of nasty things I’m reading when we should all come together hand in hand is just shocking.
Appreantly white people have caused every single fire, the only ones looting and the police brutality at the riots - videos and photos out there say otherwise, I’ve seen people from all cultures partaking in it all and mainly young men with the looting. And the police brutality was cause by no one, they’re attacking news reporters.
How can we all move forward if no one accepts no one?
I think this is the issue, we don’t know how to help. We can speak on social media behind our keyboards but will that really help really? What should help is, white people being on the streets and standing strong as a unit. But, the amount of nasty things I’m reading when we should all come together hand in hand is just shocking.
Appreantly white people have caused every single fire, the only ones looting and the police brutality at the riots - videos and photos out there say otherwise, I’ve seen people from all cultures partaking in it all and mainly young men with the looting. And the police brutality was cause by no one, they’re attacking news reporters.
How can we all move forward if no one accepts no one?
I can’t speak for POC of course but I’ve read a lot of people are happy white people are protesting. Of course there are lines they shouldn’t cross, and they shouldn’t be taking advantage of the situation to cause havoc but I think it’s important for white people to actually DO something and take a stand. Respectfully, of course. Our role is a little different than it is for POC at the protests.
I’ve seen footage of the cops starting trouble, too. Likely to make the protestors look bad. So much footage has emerged of them arriving at peaceful protests (protestors sitting down or standing still doing nothing wrong) and being violent towards them! It’s disgusting because the media doesn’t show that. The people who keep saying ‘violence isn’t the answer’ need to tell the cops that if they really believe it.
I’m sorry that your experience has been so difficult, it’s horrifying to consider how unwelcoming America can be when most of the population in power are the descendants of immigrants in the first place. However white privilege refers to the fact that skin colour is not the source of a systemic oppression. So outwardly no one would know what your background is or your last name, you could (and I am by no means suggesting you should) change your name to something like Jane Smith and not be stopped at the border anymore because your skin colour isn’t what’s making you get stopped. Whereas someone who gets stopped and searched or questions about whether they belong somewhere because of their skin can’t do anything at all to change that. That’s what white privilege is.
But the discrimination you face as an immigrant is wrong. I’m also an immigrant where I live, my name is the only thing that really identifies me as an immigrant because it’s a country that’s generally very white and I speak the language fluently without a discernable accent. I spent more time explaining where I’m from when I lived in the states for a few months than I have in the last 5 years where I live. I benefit from a lot of privilege because of my skin, no one has ever asked me where I’m ‘really’ from as has happened with my best friend who’s British but was born in West Africa.
@GossWhore thanks so much for that comprehensive post. I really wanted to make a donation to a relevant charity, was having a search around the last couple of days for a Black Lives Matter but that didn’t seem to be a charitable organisation as such.... anyway the Race Equality Foundation is perfect and I’ve just donated.
@EiiiEiiiO I will preface this with an apology as I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings and I can sense some of your pain in your words. And I was going to leave it and not say anything, but then read back about calling stuff out and being brave... but it is not appropriate or acceptable to come in to a conversation about white allyship and the recent crimes perpetrated against black people and dominate the narrative with your explanation of how hard done by you are as a white person. It is the very definition of white fragility and whataboutery. Now some other posters, probably some of them black who have been gently explaining to white people about racism since time began, have had to take time to AGAIN explain to a white woman why she has white privilege. On a thread about being a white ally.
If you have concerns about anti Semitism and xenophobia, start a thread or a discussion forum about it. Do not monopolise this space that a black woman has created to discuss the very urgent emergency that is happening to black people at the moment.
I say this as an Ashkenazi Jew with a very Jewish name who looks so Jewish you can call me Jewy McJewson and everyone would know who you meant. I don’t dismiss your concerns or your upset, but this is not the time or place or moment for anyone white to cry hard done by.
@EiiiEiiiO I will preface this with an apology as I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings and I can sense some of your pain in your words. And I was going to leave it and not say anything, but then read back about calling stuff out and being brave... but it is not appropriate or acceptable to come in to a conversation about white allyship and the recent crimes perpetrated against black people and dominate the narrative with your explanation of how hard done by you are as a white person. It is the very definition of white fragility and whataboutery. Now some other posters, probably some of them black who have been gently explaining to white people about racism since time began, have had to take time to AGAIN explain to a white woman why she has white privilege. On a thread about being a white ally.
If you have concerns about anti Semitism and xenophobia, start a thread or a discussion forum about it. Do not monopolise this space that a black woman has created to discuss the very urgent emergency that is happening to black people at the moment.
I say this as an Ashkenazi Jew with a very Jewish name who looks so Jewish you can call me Jewy McJewson and everyone would know who you meant. I don’t dismiss your concerns or your upset, but this is not the time or place or moment for anyone white to cry hard done by.
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Thank you. Will be reading and educating myself more.
Thank you for this post. I’ve always prided myself on not being racist but I think I’m starting to truly understand how being ANTI racist is different, and that’s what I’m now aiming for.
Exactly this. I’ve been educating myself more over the past couple of days and it’s been eye opening.