I'm really shocked and disappointed by the lack of empathy a lot of people have for the five people who died. I don't care how much money someone has, it's still incredibly sad.
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I'd say we owe more to the engineers who poured all their knowledge and skill into researching and developing safe aircraft, and to the policymakers who took that knowledge on board (no pun unintended) and insisted on having enforceable aviation standards. Having a thirst for adventure and being willing to risk your life is just as likely to impair progress as to assist it.
I also struggle to see how OceanGate was in any way creative or innovative. Deep sea submersibles already exist, and scientists already know what the safest materials are and which tests should be performed to ensure a submarine is capable of descending to the depth of the Titanic. Sometimes scientific discovery does require risk, but it has to be a calculated one. This is why we perform organ transplants (an inherently risky thing) but we don't decide to chuck a dog's liver inside a human just to see if it might work (an even bigger risk with nothing to suggest it might improve transplantation science at all, and quite a lot to suggest that very bad things might happen as a result). Deciding to use materials that are already known to be weaker than titanium and refusing to fully test the sub's capabilities at depth is only "pushing boundaries" in the sense that using the dog's liver is pushing boundaries. The purpose was to save money, which is baffling coming from someone who had billions to spend.
I have sympathy for the four passengers, especially the young man who it seems only went to please his father and was anxious about the voyage, he shouldn’t have been there in the first place in my opinion.
I have no sympathy for the CEO he willing took risks with others lives and had been for a longtime, cutting corners, pure greed. What he did was unforgivable.
I had been trying to word exactly this for ages - thank you so much.
It even sounds like OceanGate lied about the level of involvement from organisations like Boeing, NASA and the University of Washington - OceanGate claim they collaborated on Titan but all three organisations says this wasn’t really the case. It seemed like the Titan wasn’t really equipped to carry out any research either. Obviously it is really sad what happened to these people but it shouldn’t be seen as a sacrifice in the pursuit of progress.
Billionaires have such unfathomable wealth that no one could possibly spend it all in multiple lifetimes. Every future generation of the family could live off the interest alone. Billionaires are immoral and hoard wealth only for the sake of keeping it from others. They wake up every day and choose to let millions of people die when they could use their wealth to provide food, shelter, water, or medical care for literally whole countries. They can go duck themselves. I'll save my empathy for the 19 year old and the children of anyone lost.
He could've brushed his hair the scruffy cu#t.
This is an interesting watch (mix of videos and pics) from someone who was on Mission 3
I've been reading this thread from the beginning and have found the discussions really interesting.
I have sympathy for all of the dead. Especially the historian and the teenager. The CEO was reckless and stupid but I don't think he was evil or solely motivated by money. I think he really thought he was contributing to science and would change the world. As a previous poster said, he wasn't selling tickets and then sitting in the office coordinating stuff, he went down time and time again. I think he really thought it was infallible.
As for people saying people shouldn't visit the Titanic any more - I don't really understand that logic. It's not a coral reef that we are destroying. It's the wreck of a man-made ship. Who cares if it crumbles to dust? What is the point of preserving it? Explore it as much as possible while you can I say.
I also really hate James Cameron saying no one should go. Why is he so special that he can go over 30 times but no one else can. He's coming across as a bit sanctimonious tbh.
I believe the spirit leaves the body immediately on death, so maybe that's why I don't see it as a grave site. I live in a house built on an former hospital site where many people will have died and possibly are even buried. In my city we have hills known to be formed from building on mass graves from the black death. I have visited many WW2 memorials and ground zero. It's human nature to be interested in our history.
There is death everywhere. Yes it should be respected but there is a line and I think enough time has passed. It is interesting and I can understand why people would want to go (not that I ever would, as I am terrified of the ocean).
Anyway that's my two pence
I have sympathy for all of the dead. Especially the historian and the teenager. The CEO was reckless and stupid but I don't think he was evil or solely motivated by money. I think he really thought he was contributing to science and would change the world. As a previous poster said, he wasn't selling tickets and then sitting in the office coordinating stuff, he went down time and time again. I think he really thought it was infallible.
As for people saying people shouldn't visit the Titanic any more - I don't really understand that logic. It's not a coral reef that we are destroying. It's the wreck of a man-made ship. Who cares if it crumbles to dust? What is the point of preserving it? Explore it as much as possible while you can I say.
I also really hate James Cameron saying no one should go. Why is he so special that he can go over 30 times but no one else can. He's coming across as a bit sanctimonious tbh.
I believe the spirit leaves the body immediately on death, so maybe that's why I don't see it as a grave site. I live in a house built on an former hospital site where many people will have died and possibly are even buried. In my city we have hills known to be formed from building on mass graves from the black death. I have visited many WW2 memorials and ground zero. It's human nature to be interested in our history.
There is death everywhere. Yes it should be respected but there is a line and I think enough time has passed. It is interesting and I can understand why people would want to go (not that I ever would, as I am terrified of the ocean).
Anyway that's my two pence
Sadly this happens. Unless your opinion fits the majority, it becomes an invalid opinion.….
All these petty arguments are making me laugh is all, hence the side eye, get over yourself
Not sure where I said not to discuss the topic? Please enlighten me? Pretty sure I just contributed an opinion to the discussion, as I have been all week. Didn’t realise only certain members are allowed to discuss it.
I am saddened by what happened, I too think it was a very risky move by all, especially Stockton Rush. I also can’t help but think that despite his sheer disrespect for rules and regulations, he must have still had some sort of faith in his design by going down there himself. Surely, in his mind, they were fine.
I really think he did. He was obviously very wrong but this is literally why we have such tight regulation of almost all industries. You can't rely on people getting things right (even if they really tried). I hope a tighter regulatory regime comes from this situation.
Exactly this. He may well have been a brilliant mind, a gifted engineer, a fearless adventurer but he had no checks and balances. And he fired the person who tried to raise concerns because he wouldn’t accept his assurances. Well we know now who was right and who was wrong on that point.
Nothing good ever comes from an echo chamber. He does come across as arrogant but I dunno I see passion rather than unadulterated greed. Plus he went down in the thing so he can't have believed it would blow.
It's sad all round.
He was passionate but also selfish.
Same. it's disgusting how many people see the word billionaire then lose any sympathy they may have had. They were still people like you and I. We all work hard and save, invest etc. I'm sure if any of us were ever fortunate enough to have a billion in the bank, we wouldn't automatically be unworthy of sympathy. Not every rich person is an asshole, the same way not every poor person is an angel
Yes I agree with that.
I was surprised that Paul-Henri Nargeolet was so happy to go in the sub if it was considered to be so unconventional.
I have sympathy for the dead on a human level. But it was such an unnecessary trip. If they had been poorer they wouldn’t be dead now. Money isn’t a get out of jail free card for dangerous situations, and ‘because you can’ doesn’t mean you should.
We're all human, and on that level, I can feel grief for anyone who dies.
But it's simply not true that billionaires are rich because they worked hard and saved. No one gets that rich without either actively exploiting people who have far less than they do, or inheriting the fortune of someone who did exactly that. Does anyone really believe that Jeff Bezos works harder than the people in his warehouses and he has billions because he saved carefully? He has billions only because his employees and suppliers aren't paid fairly. With this in mind, I wouldn't consider myself "fortunate" if I ended up with a billion in the bank, because there's no way to earn or keep that kind of money ethically. I hope people would have compassion on me as a human, but I wouldn't expect them to excuse what I'd done.
Same. I don’t like that there’s billionaires when people are starving but I don’t want to see people die in a horrible scary way because that’s just awful
It was not appropriate to say that to the press when the family had just had confirmation of their passing. Time and a place. The mum and sister are no doubt suffering enough without the aunt adding her two pennies worth.
Does the mother really need to hear that her son was scared, especially when the father was the one who persuaded their son to go? How is that helping her?
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