Xenophobia rather than racism, but you have basically just said what I am talking about, in order to shut ppl up about Brexit then your told your racist! I voted leave and I have my own reasons but it’s not because I don’t like ppl that aren’t British!Racism isn’t just about the colour of your skin... Thousands of people voted in favour of Brexit for racist reasons, many of which were about white people from different parts of Europe. Not everyone’s reasons were racist, granted, but many were.
The first part of your post - the Windsors are a great study in terms of PR.I agree that the BRF will have a massive problem regarding their relevance the second the Queen is buried. The whole wholesome Cambridge family and pro Charles PR that has been set in motion about 5 years ago shows they are very aware of that. And they did a fantastic job. It started slow but it’s in full force now for a couple of years. Harry marrying was a gift and how this particular situation turned out will benefit this more than they could have hoped for. A new royal wife always gets crushed at least after the honeymoon, with a short baby announcement and baby birth break. It was always to be expected that they would use Kate as the positive opposite in this narrative. But Harry and Meghan made it pretty easy for the tabloids and at least he should have known what was coming. The whole “workhorse” narrative was obviously about to bite them in the ass. Marrying someone from the US in a time when the prejudice against the USA is high and anti-Americanism is socially accepted, and then someone connected to Hollywood (which is seen as fake, too focused on glitter, money and fame) made her an easy target. I believe Harry fell victim to his PR narrative (the Golden boy, funny, warm and invested Harry, so much easier to be around than his brother. People were openly discussing to prefer him as king - never going to happen obviously). He thought he and his wife would ride this wave. Sorry but at 35(?) he should have know better. Their actions fuelled this conflict and the end result is completely their fault. I think if they had come after the actual racist comments they would have been supported (I definitely would have. Some people are vile). But suing news group for a racist bias is hard because it is not easy to prove. I predict they will loose this case.
The BRF needs to get their shit together though. Wiliam and Kate need to pull high numbers through out the UK. Charles and Camilla are doing ok but if it’s their faces in the heads when people think about keeping the monarchy they will be thrown out. They need to get rid of Andrew and Sarah ASAP. The Queen’s cousins need to go. They need to re-evaluate the York sisters. Same goes for the Wessex children. I think a model like Spain might be a good idea. They need to change their MO. Less people means less engagements- so make them bigger and more important. Drive a better media strategy (we start seeing signs. At least Wiliam seems to be less hyper aware and buttoned up with them)- look at Sweden. Nice photos (great mix of “private” and professional), a yearly video documentary (again gives a feeling of a more close relationship with them even though it’s obviously not) and for gods sake bring the one thing only royals can do: tiaras!
Because, let’s not kid ourselves- abolishing the monarchy will not make anything more fair. There will be a new head of state. Maybe people can vote directly, maybe it will be a parliament vote. There will still be costs. Especially as their service will not be indefinitely. As soon as they are out of the job, they still get pensions, security, offices and what not- all while cashing in money in personal business endeavours. Germany had to pay for the upkeep for 5 former head of states at one time. Let me tell you- that was about the amount of money the BRF costs. There will still be corruption and bad press just like with every politician. At least the royals bring an air of history, magic and glitter and continuity. I mean if there is no Queen/King there is no kingdom? Will it be the republic of England, Scotland and Wales? I think Scotland will make a run for it’s money. Who will be on the money? They have to rename administrative bodies, give out new passports. To untangle this will be unbelievable hard. Especially as the history of the country is so intertwined with the family. It will be a legal nightmare. That is going to be expensive- and it will be given to cheapest supplier- so probably not done in Britain.
If I were the leader of the BRF and the UK abolishes the monarchy I would pack up every piece of art, lock up every castle, pull every loaned out piece of whatever. Incredible rich people have a way of protecting their wealth, so I wouldn’t worry. They are one of the biggest landowners in Britain.
I think there are flaws in every political system. The western European democracies (not talking about the EU members) are all pretty good with their particular pros and cons. Almost half have a Queen or a King and they do neither better nor worse than the rest. So yeah, it might be decision of principle because the problems people connect with them don’t disappear. They will just wander to the next holder of the position.
Interesting will be what Canada, Australia and New Zealand decide. And what becomes of the Commonwealth- hint hint: I think it will loose impact and lots of bigger members will leave.
Yes youre right. Everyone has a right to comment negatively on anyone. This is a gossip site. I'm just saying I find it OTT. But if you want her to go away, ignore her. Dont click.on articles about her, dont whip each other up into a frenzy over nothing and they will both crawl into obscurity.Re Andrew Its not been proven that he had sex with a trafficked girl but there is tons of evidence of his dodgy friendships to just with Epstein but Weinstein and any number of dodgy oligarchs etc. He damned himself out of his own mouth when it came to his arrogance and contempt for his mothers subjects and anyone not rich and / or aristocratic.The word narcissist is thrown about far too much these days and I don’t hate MM in an extreme way, I just don’t think she married Harry because she was genuinely in love with him.
Yes he is an adult but everyone has the right to dislike her, this entire site is full of celebs that we don’t like!
Yes to the fact that people hate MM compared to the hatred Andrew gets but some people are gullible and won’t hate on him until it’s proven!
People that say we dislike MM due to race (not you) then they just say it to shut us down, It’s the same sort of thing with Brexit, if you voted for it then you must be racist even though the majority of Eastern European’s are all white like the majority of the Brits, it’s exactly the same type of thing.
I never said that so don’t make out like I did! I said that’s what people say to shut people up about their wants and you have proved this.Yes youre right. Everyone has a right to comment negatively on anyone. This is a gossip site. I'm just saying I find it OTT. But if you want her to go away, ignore her. Dont click.on articles about her, dont whip each other up into a frenzy over nothing and they will both crawl into obscurity.Re Andrew Its not been proven that he had sex with a trafficked girl but there is tons of evidence of his dodgy friendships to just with Epstein but Weinstein and any number of dodgy oligarchs etc. He damned himself out of his own mouth when it came to his arrogance and contempt for his mothers subjects and anyone not rich and / or aristocratic.
Also if you voted brexit because you didnt want eastern Europeans here that is racist. Polish people are an ethnic minority group.
Absolutely spot on. The focus should be on what Kate and William do because they will be imposed on us, as will George as our heads of state. It's not comparable. All the 'oh the duty is suchbhardcwork bollocks. They are absolutely desperate to stay where they are. It drips out of everything they do.The first part of your post - the Windsors are a great study in terms of PR.
Harry's wife, no matter who she were to be, would've been crucified by the press, just like Kate was. However, BP does let it happen and it is part of their age-old tactic of having the spare and their spouse be the fall couple for the heir & spouse, so they look better in the public's eye.
Nothing makes me laugh more than the adulation Kate gets and comments by people how Kate "would never do this", "behaved always impeccably" or "never put a foot wrong" "is elegant and classy 100% of the time". I wonder, did these people start following once Harry married or did they start the adulation (knowing full well that the above statements are not true) just to spite Meghan? Because if we were to compare Meg vs Kate 1st year of marriage and 2nd (to draw a more direct comparison, so ticking the stations from the start of entering the firm in direct contrast), Meg either outperformed Kate or did no worse than her.
The media followed suit and glorified Kate along with these either spiteful or unknowing people, but the thing is, as Diana said, they build you up to knock you down. The Cambridges felt this again, after years of positive on positive press (ie since Meg came along), when the Sussexes were gone from the media for a good while, they started to criticize the Cambridges again. And the Cambridges do deserve quite a bit of criticism.
Charles has been on quite a campaign since Diana died and the introduction of Camilla was nothing short of genius PR. There's a whole documentary on that out there. The biggest problem Charles really faces is his age. People seem to love nothing more than youth, so no matter Charles's good deeds (and there are many of them), he remains always overshadowed by the younger generation, so his image is oddly skewed, regardless of postive PR.
The workhorse bit, you're right. I think this ties in with the "Harry's frustration regarding projects" bit in Omid's biography of them. I do think they had many ideas, wanted to work on many things and were sidelined, because they cannot do more or overshadow the heir and the heir's heir (ie Charles & Will).
A further problem is that the Cambridges are absolutely lazy. Both of them, but Kate even more so. Harry's wife being a busy bee (again, no matter who she were to be) would've been a massive problem. Esp if that wife were to have also kids and still outperfom Kate in numbers and with a better delivery (ie better written and performed speeches, something Kate's only become better at in the past 2-3 years, is the timeline in which Kate became better a mere coincidence or a shock/wake up reaction to the de facto direct competition (ie Harry's wife)?).
In terms of PR it is really fascinating what the Windsors do and also how the press spins it all by their own. There's a documentary on the Windsors's PR tactics over the years and it's beyond amazing!
Albert was the first to have a major hand in the family's PR in a similar way as Phil did back in the 1950s/60s, he's the one who started with the whole "wholesome family just having a nice time bonding" thing and the one who effectively shaped Xmas as we know it today and the Windsors's own Xmas traditions, as well.
They need to update the monarchy fast, they are the most old-fashioned of all European monarchies and I realized that only once I started to learn a bit about them all. The UK has in theory more territory to cover than other monarchies (ie the Commonwealth), but in reality it's not like the Windsors are incessantly on tour and need a whole family to act as representatives.
They should have a monarch & heir only system like the others (e.g. Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, Norway & Denmark, basically like all EU monarchies at this point), wherein all spares are raised to join the workforce and all extended family (ie spares, cousins, aunts, uncles, the works) are only roped in based on necessity, eg to fill seats at state banquets, but even then seats could be filled in various ways.
Abolish the curtsey bs, too. Others have done it as well.
They must also quit the "heir vs spare" pitting type of PR, as it's doing them no favours at all. The spares are acting out (rightly so, who'd want to be the professional fall guy for their older "more important" sibling?? All their life!) and when the negative press of the spare is rotated through and nothing left to write about, the heir will be experiencing a renewed fall from grace anyway.
Most recently as we saw with the Cambs a few months ago. The Cambridges will have a lambasting through the press soon enough again, just wait for it.
The media is a fickle beast and can be quite problematic, aside from what I just wrote about. Eg in Denmark they never criticize their royal family, even though there is a lot that the people should know about and the heir and his wife need to be called out for (eg spending so much, they beg the government for more money, which goes up in air on luxury shopping sprees for Italian and French couture brands, which then end up sold by Mary in a 2nd hand shop! that's just one example. Another is the fact that Mary's Danish is still piss poor, nigh in non-existent, meanwhile Maxima was basically fluent in Dutch already when she gave the engagemet interview back in the day, as was Marie in Danish for her engagement interview...).
Monarchies are great (apparently) never ending soaps, really. Tune in to The Windsors, series 856, all brand spankin' new with the same age-old scandals befalling a whole new generation!
I didn't say you specifically. I meant the Meghan haters for example on the Meghan thread which is mad. I dont know if you're one of them because I dont go on there because it's too nuts.Apologies if I assumed you were one of themI never said that so don’t make out like I did! I said that’s what people say to shut people up about their wants and you have proved this.
Where the fuck am I whipping people
Into a frenzy?! What shit you talk
They have their own thread here in the celeb section, just say what you want, I don't think separate rave/rant threads are necessary and both positive and negative has been said in their thread, just air your opinion, it'll be fine I'm sureIs there a rant thread for kate?
Could look myself but I'm lazy
How do we start one? I've only been active on this site for two weeks, despite signing up a while ago, so I'm still learning to navigate.Is there a rant thread for kate?
Could look myself but I'm lazy
I absolutely agree. About Andrew and about the over the top hatred.Yeah but even if all that was true, Harry is an adult that can make his own mistakes. The extreme hatred of her is weird. The track record of the Royals in the marriage stakes is appalling at the best of times. If they do get divorced they will be the latest in a long line of Royal divorcees. Harry is so far off the throne as to be irrelevant. The significance given to them is based entirely on the hysteria whipped up over the internet and by the papers. If they want to be left alone, leave them alone and shut up about them. They will go away.What I find more distasteful is the top billing given to Harry and Meghan being annoying narcissists and a lower billing given to Andrew being a long time friend to sexual predators ( he invited Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein to his childs 18th birthday at Windsor Castle ffs. Why? Was it because of all the 17 and 18 year old girls running around? ) They are not equal 'crimes' yet they are mentioned in the same breath all the time! They are being used as a smokescreen to cover up far worse things and and the baying internet mob lap it up, ignoring more serious issues, like our Head of State allowing her beloved son get away with his behaviour for so long and our future head of state refusing access to their children if they run stories on Andrew. Harry and Meghan are nobodies yet our rulers and future rulers are being protected by their human shield.
Hilary Mantel has some excellent books.Can anyone recommend good books about the royal family (mostly the English one - old and current). I love history books and would love to learn more about the monarchy as I will officially become a British citizen next year!!
So true. There was a time when Wiliam and Kate were single handily bringing down the monarchy. Being utterly lazy, only interested in nice engagements (sport or red carpets), rejecting their roles and obligations, the renovation drama about Amner Hall, the BIG grandparent war, practically withholding the children from Charles and the Queen, Wiliams hostile relationship with the media. They had to put up with a lot of criticising for not parading their children to the public. All the articles how the peerage dislikes and ridiculed Kate, Kate’s spending (especially on items that look exactly the same), Kate breaking protocol a thousand times, Kate the Flasher, Kate the gold digger, Wiliam the hypocrite in his animal rescue but sport hunting, Wiliam and part time flying, Kate using pregnancies to avoid work, Kate faking HG, Kate’s eating disorders, Kate the anti-feminist, Kate’s horrible posture, Kate’s bad speeches, when Meghan turned up it was all about jealous Kate- not busy enough, not stylish enough, not warmThe first part of your post - the Windsors are a great study in terms of PR.
Harry's wife, no matter who she were to be, would've been crucified by the press, just like Kate was. However, BP does let it happen and it is part of their age-old tactic of having the spare and their spouse be the fall couple for the heir & spouse, so they look better in the public's eye.
Nothing makes me laugh more than the adulation Kate gets and comments by people how Kate "would never do this", "behaved always impeccably" or "never put a foot wrong" "is elegant and classy 100% of the time". I wonder, did these people start following once Harry married or did they start the adulation (knowing full well that the above statements are not true) just to spite Meghan? Because if we were to compare Meg vs Kate 1st year of marriage and 2nd (to draw a more direct comparison, so ticking the stations from the start of entering the firm in direct contrast), Meg either outperformed Kate or did no worse than her.
The media followed suit and glorified Kate along with these either spiteful or unknowing people, but the thing is, as Diana said, they build you up to knock you down. The Cambridges felt this again, after years of positive on positive press (ie since Meg came along), when the Sussexes were gone from the media for a good while, they started to criticize the Cambridges again. And the Cambridges do deserve quite a bit of criticism.
Charles has been on quite a campaign since Diana died and the introduction of Camilla was nothing short of genius PR. There's a whole documentary on that out there. The biggest problem Charles really faces is his age. People seem to love nothing more than youth, so no matter Charles's good deeds (and there are many of them), he remains always overshadowed by the younger generation, so his image is oddly skewed, regardless of postive PR.
The workhorse bit, you're right. I think this ties in with the "Harry's frustration regarding projects" bit in Omid's biography of them. I do think they had many ideas, wanted to work on many things and were sidelined, because they cannot do more or overshadow the heir and the heir's heir (ie Charles & Will).
A further problem is that the Cambridges are absolutely lazy. Both of them, but Kate even more so. Harry's wife being a busy bee (again, no matter who she were to be) would've been a massive problem. Esp if that wife were to have also kids and still outperfom Kate in numbers and with a better delivery (ie better written and performed speeches, something Kate's only become better at in the past 2-3 years, is the timeline in which Kate became better a mere coincidence or a shock/wake up reaction to the de facto direct competition (ie Harry's wife)?).
In terms of PR it is really fascinating what the Windsors do and also how the press spins it all by their own. There's a documentary on the Windsors's PR tactics over the years and it's beyond amazing!
Albert was the first to have a major hand in the family's PR in a similar way as Phil did back in the 1950s/60s, he's the one who started with the whole "wholesome family just having a nice time bonding" thing and the one who effectively shaped Xmas as we know it today and the Windsors's own Xmas traditions, as well.
They need to update the monarchy fast, they are the most old-fashioned of all European monarchies and I realized that only once I started to learn a bit about them all. The UK has in theory more territory to cover than other monarchies (ie the Commonwealth), but in reality it's not like the Windsors are incessantly on tour and need a whole family to act as representatives.
They should have a monarch & heir only system like the others (e.g. Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, Norway & Denmark, basically like all EU monarchies at this point), wherein all spares are raised to join the workforce and all extended family (ie spares, cousins, aunts, uncles, the works) are only roped in based on necessity, eg to fill seats at state banquets, but even then seats could be filled in various ways.
Abolish the curtsey bs, too. Others have done it as well.
They must also quit the "heir vs spare" pitting type of PR, as it's doing them no favours at all. The spares are acting out (rightly so, who'd want to be the professional fall guy for their older "more important" sibling?? All their life!) and when the negative press of the spare is rotated through and nothing left to write about, the heir will be experiencing a renewed fall from grace anyway.
Most recently as we saw with the Cambs a few months ago. The Cambridges will have a lambasting through the press soon enough again, just wait for it.
The media is a fickle beast and can be quite problematic, aside from what I just wrote about. Eg in Denmark they never criticize their royal family, even though there is a lot that the people should know about and the heir and his wife need to be called out for (eg spending so much, they beg the government for more money, which goes up in air on luxury shopping sprees for Italian and French couture brands, which then end up sold by Mary in a 2nd hand shop! that's just one example. Another is the fact that Mary's Danish is still piss poor, nigh in non-existent, meanwhile Maxima was basically fluent in Dutch already when she gave the engagemet interview back in the day, as was Marie in Danish for her engagement interview...).
Monarchies are great (apparently) never ending soaps, really. Tune in to The Windsors, series 856, all brand spankin' new with the same age-old scandals befalling a whole new generation!
Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, the Scandinavian countries, Liechtenstein.
with the exception of Liechtenstein and us, the royal families of those european countries are firmly in their boxes. It’s about time we followed suit.
Like to add Luxembourg, Andorra and the Vatikan (counts as absolute monarchy).It is a tricky one, to some extent the Queen and the RF do serve some kind of purpose!
Only..........if the RF did go, it would create the imput for change........whilst at the moment England is tied down to the history and the past! The whole Downton Abbey effect! There are plenty of successful republics out there. Hardly any of the Western European democracies do actually have a ruling monarchy! France doesnt, Switzerland doesnt, Germany doesnt, Italy doesnt, I think the only one that does is Monaco!
I like Phillippa Gregory but both of those are related to The Tudors. Later than that I. Not sure. Horrible Histories is a kids programme but its fab for a lot of history.Hilary Mantel has some excellent books.
Whilst I disagree with a lot of what Harry and Meghan do ...actually EVERYTHING they do... I meant the Meghan haters for example on the Meghan thread which is mad. I dont know if you're one of them because I dont go on there because it's too nuts...
Apparently he has three "regular lady visitors" at Sandringham.He normally lives with his 'carriage driving partner' Penny someone on the Sandringham Estate. According to someone further up the thread, she will be the second person informed of his death when it happens ( if she isnt there at the time)
Does HM have any lovers? There is seems to be a question mark over Andrews paternity!! It’s been banded about that he is porches son!! Lol !! Maybe that is the reason why he is her favourite child?Apparently he has three "regular lady visitors" at Sandringham.
I remember reading something where an "inside source" said that there was a gay royal but it wasn't Edward. Certainly there's been rumours that Andrew is bi, and Fergie know all about where the various bodies are buried which is why she is still around. She and Andrew are apparently friends with benefits.
Elizabeth Longford's Victoria RI has been out for decades but is still very good, especially as that period was very much a reaction to the decadent Georgian and Regency periods where the royals were actively loathed. Victoria and Albert created the modern royal family and ended up related to most of the European royal families thanks to the marriages of their children and grandchildren. And the book has an awesome family tree!I like Phillippa Gregory but both of those are related to The Tudors. Later than that I. Not sure. Horrible Histories is a kids programme but its fab for a lot of history.
I wish mine and my husband's bosses felt the same wayOn Kate and Will, They certainly didn’t have a running start to working royal life. But if I recall correctly the Queen was okay with that because she appreciated her early years with Phillip in Malta? So was happy for the eventual future King and his spouse to also experience a quieter life before dedicating themselves to their jobs? I do think they’ve improved over the years. By sharing the occasional picture they’re also able to control the narrative around their children and give them some semblance of normality.
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