The Royal Family #11

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Great_Kate

@thegirlscout That would be nice, but from what I see from countries that got rid of their peerage without a big bloody revolution (don’t get me wrong I am very happy we are over this) still haven’t been able to break up those networks. They are just better hidden. And the peerage system got replaced by something else. Here, it’s definitely education. We LOVE degrees and professional titles. It’s insane (and I am definitely not free from it). And it’s unfair. And to know that the “old” system lingers under the surface still, undetected and unable to tap into… I think there are many more things the UK government and society could do to tackle inequality, with much more impact, than setting a republic. Which would probably take another 10 years to get it all figured out.
 
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thegirlscout

TYL159 said:
Ludicrous, probably the most equal nations on earth are in Scandinavia, most of them have constitutional monarchs.

Most of the most unequal nations on earth, Brazil, India, the USA etc are republics
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True, but I’m not talking about other nations. The U.K. is one of the most unequal nations in the developed world and the class system is a huge contributor to this. And the class system involves the royal family and all that entails. Unfortunately it’s not something you can get away with.
 
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em141

I don't think the UK is any worse than most other developed countries. The US stands out for me as a majorly unequal society. I've never seen as many homeless people anywhere in Europe as I have in America. America is founded on the principles of everyone bring equal and having the same chance of achieving the American dream if they just work hard enough but that belief has a negative side. If you haven't achieved it or you're struggling then it's your own fault and the state isn't going to help you. People can access healthcare and basic services for free in the UK and most of Europe. 3rd level education is free/subsidised in much of Europe. There are issues and inequalities in all societies but it has more to do with the attitude of society than whether a country has a monarch or a president. Some people in America thought Obamacare was only a step away from communism. I couldn't believe how they thought providing medical care to people who can't afford it was a bad thing. That's not an attitude that's common in Europe. The Nordic countries have the best reputation for equality and quality of life and Sweden has a monarchy while the others don't.
 
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Popcorn&Peanuts

The idea that as a British citizen, no matter what you do, how brilliant or talented or compassionate or world-changing you are, you can NEVER attempt to be Head of State because that role will only ever be filled by one family is absolutely ludicrous.

Obviously getting rid of the RF will not solve all the issues of inequality and privilege but it is a huge step to doing that. An antiquated system that confers superiority and divine right to a group of very ordinary, average people completely negates any hope of meritocracy. Things will never be fully equally anywhere, at any point in time, but that doesn't mean we do not try to at least balance the scales and create a more even playing field.

I actually find it infuriating to see the grades that Charles and Edward used to get into Cambridge. And what did they even do with their degrees? Or knowing that the monarch is exempt from inheritance tax or the FOI act. I cannot understand how people can justify these blatant and unearned privileges.

And this applies to all royal families, IMO. Not just the British one.

Eta - the people who marry into that family are more impressive than the actual members. Phillip, Diana, even Kate.
 
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JAR21

No matter what your background is in the UK, you can aspire to and become the Prime Minister.
 
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RJF

JAR21 said:
No matter what your background is in the UK, you can aspire to and become the Prime Minister.
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So you agree that the Prime Minister should be the head of state and that we should abolish the monarchy?
 
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Popcorn&Peanuts

Peachsquish said:
Not after seeing the shit show that is Boris Johnson
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But the beauty of it is that he can be voted out.

That's the other thing about monarchy - we're kind of stuck with whatever we get. It's a good thing the Queen is a good one. Can you imagine 70 years of Johnson then?
 
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JAR21

RJF said:
So you agree that the Prime Minister should be the head of state and that we should abolish the monarchy?
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No. But a person's background and 'class' doesn't prevent them rising to the position of Prime Minister.
 
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B

Boring Monday

Popcorn&Peanuts said:
But the beauty of it is that he can be voted out.

That's the other thing about monarchy - we're kind of stuck with whatever we get. It's a good thing the Queen is a good one. Can you imagine 70 years of Johnson then?
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On the other hand, Boris has far and away more power than the Queen. Seven months of Boris tops 70 years of the Queen.
Our days of a good monarch or bad monarch making much of a constitutional difference are long gone.
 
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Blurp

Wackie Jeaver said:
God our school trips were a lot more prosaic. One was a week youth hostelling and walking in the Peak District... def no vodka, champagne, caviar or boys! Very wholesome
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Oh, gods, we had a day off for some royal wedding or other, and we got taken to Stratford Upon Avon for some cultural delight - D'Carte Company staging Iolanthe. Just what a load of young teenagers want. Another day was a trip to the Mumbles in South Wales. They really had a weird idea of children and their tastes in entertainment.
 
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RJF

FenellaTheWitch said:
No it's not. Theoretically it is possible.
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Theoretically, it’s possible that Barry from EastEnders could win the London Marathon, but it is still factually incorrect that “nothing is preventing” him from doing it.
 
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Blurp

Yup, I've got a fascinating book somewhere I got from a library sale on the USA class system. All those organisations like Daughters of the American Revolution and Daughters of the Confederacy, tracing your ancestry to the founders of Texas or to the Pilgrim Fathers, without even adding in the fancy families of each main city, those with wealth etc. Wallis Simpson was born into two of the prominent Baltimore families, but as a 'poor relation'. They still have debutantes and balls for them to 'come out'. The 'Upper Ten Thousand' for 19th century New York, competing for invitations for parties by the Astors, etc were mirrored in many cities such as Boston, Charleston and so on.

Italy and Germany have abolished nobles' titles by the post WW2 constitutions but they still exist. German princes and nobles added their titles to the official family names to get round it and Italy continues to use princely and noble titles unofficially but in widespread use. Hence Edo Mapelli Mozzi is a Count in Italian society but Mr in the UK due to it not being official any more; Beatrice and Sienna may be called Contessa by the same usage.
 
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T

TYL159

No it isn't. That has nothing to do with it. Economic equality is determined by whether you have a high tax rate on the rich or not, high spending on public services or not and a strong welfare state. Though if you have too high tax and too big a state that also slows economic growth and makes everyone poorer.

What it has next to nothing to do with is whether we have a royal family or not, we had a royal family under Clement Attlee and Harold Wilson and Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair and Gordon Brown and David Cameron and Boris. It was the policies of their governments that effected how equal we were, not to do with the fact we had the Queen on the throne for all of them bar Attlee (when her father was King). We have a constitutional monarchy not an absolute monarchy
 
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H

hannah123

JAR21 said:
No matter what your background is in the UK, you can aspire to and become the Prime Minister.
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I honestly think I’d have an easier job marrying a royal than becoming prime minister. We had a mixed race American marry a prince before the Labour Party have ever even elected a female leader.
 
Reactions: 7
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