The Naked Doula

Love this chat.
I actually think that calling contractions "intense" etc is setting pregnant women up to fail. I went into my first labour thinking it would be mildly painful. 'Intense' to me is grit your teeth and get through it kind of pain. I had no idea I would literally feel like I was dying and BEGGING for pain relief. Next 2 births were even harder. You can't describe the pain. They need to be realistic to first timers - not scare tactics no, but they do need to say how painful it really is and not just breathe and you'll be fine 🥲

When Life Gives You Lmons said:

As I said, I wouldn't do it as I also have to be in the mood, but each to their own.

I don't think she is advising people not to follow medical advice, but letting them know that sometimes there are other options and, and I agree PROVIDING MUM AND BABY AREN'T IN ANY DANGER. Sometimes it's ok to weigh up your options and wait. The NICE guidelines is a good place to start when weighing up pros and cons.

Birth has become so medicalised and it is wonderful that we have all the medical expertise should we need it, but often it causes more issues than the issue they were trying to avoid! Having a healthy baby is the outcome everyone wants but what about the mum with PTSD following birth trauma? Who looks after her? Was her birth tramatic because of her body (birth trauma is never the woman's fault by the way) or because of the intervention?

Anyway, I digress. I wasn't here to defend TND, I just find the physiology of birth facsinating! I shall find another thread to stalk now!

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A friend of mine has really high anxiety / trauma around and she’s just been upfront and honest With her midwives and said they’ve been amazing.
Anyone who gives birthing advice should do some form of training IMO or have to hold some form of license. She’s telling people not to take anti biotics and refuse treatments they need to keep themselves & their baby safe.
one of my mums friends does doula / hynobirthing work & also follows TND-she told menot to bother getting tested for gestational diabetes and they advise their women against it because “what’s the point”..
My mum is diabetic so I went anyway and I’ve been diagnosed with it so now I can monitor my blood sugar levels adapt my diet and there’s no harm done.

Imagine if you’re a high risk pregnancy and develop GD then pre eclampsia because some nob with an Instagram account has told you to not listen to medical professionals or have any inventions .

Koalabear said:

There is no denying she's a bit mental but there is an old saying for a reason 'what gets the baby in, gets the baby out' - it's all about oxytocin. Granted she is pushing a rather vom-inducing angle, but there is evidence that the release of oxytocin (cuddle, kiss, laughing, organs) helps speed up labour.

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She is bonkers! Haha! Yes, you have summed it up well! My active labour was quick and the thought of masturbasting makes me feel sick, but I get what she is trying to do!

I can tell you with 100% certainty no amount of “breathe through it” helped when I had severe preeclampsia and my son 2 months early at the start of the year. That being said, even if I had a streamline birth I can’t imagine it would have helped either because I have such high anxiety.

I think what it comes down to is mainly what kind of person you are but also, the situation of your birth. Obviously there are things you can’t breathe through and I don’t think the courses and people like the ND prepare you for that at all.

If someone had told me to have a wank I would have probably punched them in the throat tbh.

Blair-Waldorf said:

She’s telling people to whip out a vibrator when they’re in labour now. Jesus fucking wept

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I’ve been at a birth where someone did this once. It was an uncomfortable working environment, to say the least.

Lotus101 said:

A friend of mine has really high anxiety / trauma around and she’s just been upfront and honest With her midwives and said they’ve been amazing.
Anyone who gives birthing advice should do some form of training IMO or have to hold some form of license. She’s telling people not to take anti biotics and refuse treatments they need to keep themselves & their baby safe.
one of my mums friends does doula / hynobirthing work & also follows TND-she told menot to bother getting tested for gestational diabetes and they advise their women against it because “what’s the point”..
My mum is diabetic so I went anyway and I’ve been diagnosed with it so now I can monitor my blood sugar levels adapt my diet and there’s no harm done.

Imagine if you’re a high risk pregnancy and develop GD then pre eclampsia because some nob with an Instagram account has told you to not listen to medical professionals or have any inventions .

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I'm so pleased to hear that your friend is being supported. I hope everything goes well for her.

Two of the biggest things to come out of the maternity report on shrewsbury trust (Ockendon) is lack of continuity of care and women not being listened to during labour and birth. Research has shown that when women who felt listened to and supported, reported a positive birth experience regardless of HOW they gave birth. Maternity services is a mess and I am so thankful I am done having children.

Women are hiring doulas because they want that comtinuity and someone to advocate for them.

Slothgang said:

Love this chat.
I actually think that calling contractions "intense" etc is setting pregnant women up to fail. I went into my first labour thinking it would be mildly painful. 'Intense' to me is grit your teeth and get through it kind of pain. I had no idea I would literally feel like I was dying and BEGGING for pain relief. Next 2 births were even harder. You can't describe the pain. They need to be realistic to first timers - not scare tactics no, but they do need to say how painful it really is and not just breathe and you'll be fine 🥲

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Pain is so personal. My early labour was painless, I didn't know I was in labour, but active labour was, for me, intense! It was painful and relentless, but manageable. Not in a controlled, calm way, but I honestly didn't feel like I needed anything but gas and air (until transition that is! Haha!) It also depends on how the baby is positioned. Everyone's will be so different..

When Life Gives You Lmons said:

I'm so pleased to hear that your friend is being supported. I hope everything goes well for her.

Two of the biggest things to come out of the maternity report on shrewsbury trust (Ockendon) is lack of continuity of care and women not being listened to during labour and birth. Research has shown that when women who felt listened to and supported, reported a positive birth experience regardless of HOW they gave birth. Maternity services is a mess and I am so thankful I am done having children.

Women are hiring doulas because they want that comtinuity and someone to advocate for them.

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yeah I completely get that but I still think a doula should have to have some form of license before dishing out birthing advice.. because really the only women who are going to listen to them are those that are the most vulnerable. When they’re probably feeling a bit “anti” midwife / doctors/ NHS anyway.

I just personally don’t think a bunch of women who give birth once and create an Instagram account telling everyone to ignore medical advice regardless of risk and push the narrative that birth should be this calm and pleasurable experience and if it’s not it’s yours / the hospital / the doctors fault is the best answer to it.

Lotus101 said:

A friend of mine has really high anxiety / trauma around and she’s just been upfront and honest With her midwives and said they’ve been amazing.
Anyone who gives birthing advice should do some form of training IMO or have to hold some form of license. She’s telling people not to take anti biotics and refuse treatments they need to keep themselves & their baby safe.
one of my mums friends does doula / hynobirthing work & also follows TND-she told menot to bother getting tested for gestational diabetes and they advise their women against it because “what’s the point”..
My mum is diabetic so I went anyway and I’ve been diagnosed with it so now I can monitor my blood sugar levels adapt my diet and there’s no harm done.

Imagine if you’re a high risk pregnancy and develop GD then pre eclampsia because some nob with an Instagram account has told you to not listen to medical professionals or have any inventions .

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I also hope that the rest of your pregnancy goes well and the diabetes is under control.

Every woman has to asses their own risk, for sure. X

Funny how she’s distanced herself from Lauren Goodger - she was known to have helped her but she’s not said anything since Lauren’s baby died

Wingingmotherhood said:

Funny how she’s distanced herself from Lauren Goodger - she was known to have helped her but she’s not said anything since Lauren’s baby died

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omg was she?????!
That’s absolutely awful!!! Surely her role should be offering as much solidarity & support to her as possible??

Lotus101 said:

I just personally don’t think a bunch of women who give birth once and create an Instagram account telling everyone to ignore medical advice regardless of risk and push the narrative that birth should be this calm and pleasurable experience and if it’s not it’s yours / the hospital / the doctors fault is the best answer to it.

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I couldn't agree with this more. I used to be 'insta-friends' with a woman who was really lovely and we had lots in common. She then had the most amazing home birth and guess what? She's now a doula I wish her all the luck but I also wish those women just realised 'easy' birth isn't just down to some breathing techniques and right mindset.

That said I am due next year and I have been debating a doula. I think mostly just for reminding me to breath, focus etc etc as I can get a bit lost in the pain. But I am terrified of these women.

@Lotus101 so glad you went ahead with the test for gestational diabetes. It outrages me how much encouragement there is to avoid the test…there are so many factors to take into consideration, but most of all, keeping your baby safe.

@Koalabear would your birthing partner be any good at helping with your breathing and staying calm? I had my mum and husband at my first, it was a long labour and they took it in turns supporting me. With my second, it was only one birthing partner due to Covid restrictions so I had my husband. Again, he supported me endlessly, and I birthed upright so he stood the entire time rubbing my back, encouraging me and giving me water and jelly babies. I did consider a doula simply because my first birth was very difficult and traumatic, and I was quite petrified doing it again but my second was much easier (although this is likely down to me being more knowledgable and having done it before).

Esme said:

@Koalabear would your birthing partner be any good at helping with your breathing and staying calm? I had my mum and husband at my first, it was a long labour and they took it in turns supporting me. With my second, it was only one birthing partner due to Covid restrictions so I had my husband. Again, he supported me endlessly, and I birthed upright so he stood the entire time rubbing my back, encouraging me and giving me water and jelly babies. I did consider a doula simply because my first birth was very difficult and traumatic, and I was quite petrified doing it again but my second was much easier (although this is likely down to me being more knowledgable and having done it before).

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Yes he is generally quite good but I did find in the later stages I needed him more physically supporting standing up, rubbing my back etc and he wasn't so good at helping me focus with breathing. Both my labours were very long and difficult (second ending in crash section), I know people (especially THOSE doulas) say you can birth the baby you've grown but honestly both mine were stuck, the wrong way round and refusing to descend into the birth canal for hours We also have an issue of no childcare (if my mum can't get time off work to fly over) so I might be going into the hospital on my own.

When doulas do their job properly they’re great, when they act in the supportive friend / sister role they’re supposed to. The problem is that some of them overstep the mark into giving out medical advice which they aren’t trained to give, and then there’s no accountability. They need to be registered with a central body and there should be a way of reporting the ones who cause harm. I’ve worked with lots of doulas, most have been lovely, but I’ve met some who have given worrying advice, which women have followed, and in some of those cases babies have died. The doulas just disappear when that happens.
And they’re not wrong when they say you don’t have to have antibiotics, or a test for GDM or anything else you don’t want in pregnancy, we’re all free to make our own choices, but deciding to decline care should be a result of a balanced conversation with a senior midwife or obstetrician and with full understanding of all the benefits and risks of choosing to accept or decline that treatment. Not just being told “no you’ll be fine, doctors and midwives are just evil and bored and want to hurt you and your baby for no reason lol”. Controversial as it may be, every doctor and midwife I’ve worked with actually wants the best for the women we look after. It’s just that sometimes the medical idea of best is different from the woman’s idea of best, and that’s why we need to forge good relationships. Doulas who perpetuate the idea that they are good and we are bad are doing women a huge disservice and actually putting them at greater risk, since they’re less likely to trust us when things go wrong or interventions become necessary.
Whoops that was a bit of a lengthy tangent, can you tell this is something that really bothers me?!
TL;DR, the naked doula is a knob.

I don’t think she’s working within her scope of practice to be honest. And that is the issue.

When Life Gives You Lmons said:

I'm so pleased to hear that your friend is being supported. I hope everything goes well for her.

Two of the biggest things to come out of the maternity report on shrewsbury trust (Ockendon) is lack of continuity of care and women not being listened to during labour and birth. Research has shown that when women who felt listened to and supported, reported a positive birth experience regardless of HOW they gave birth. Maternity services is a mess and I am so thankful I am done having children.

Women are hiring doulas because they want that comtinuity and someone to advocate for them.



Pain is so personal. My early labour was painless, I didn't know I was in labour, but active labour was, for me, intense! It was painful and relentless, but manageable. Not in a controlled, calm way, but I honestly didn't feel like I needed anything but gas and air (until transition that is! Haha!) It also depends on how the baby is positioned. Everyone's will be so different..

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support - yes. Advice - No!

She’s been reading here clearly

Blair-Waldorf said:

She’s been reading here clearly

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Shame the babies whose lives were threatened or lost from these "informed choices" weren't afforded the same luxury.

Blair-Waldorf said:

Couldn’t find a thread so I’ve made one. I can not deal with this woman. She is dangerous!!!!

Basically a doula who I believe has no medical/midwifery qualifications but advocates for ‘natural’ births and actively encourages women to disregard medical advice, doing things on their own terms such as declining inductions

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Omfg I’m so glad there’s a thread about her! She does my head in, her hatred of any medical intervention is way over the top and she basically tells you to disregard any advice! Really pissses me off!!!! She acts as though there is zero need for a medical birth when that’s clearly untrue

Made my way here from the pregnancy thread. I was (until today) following her but tbh not taking in much of what she posts.

I'd love to see someone like Mama Doctor Jones do a review of her content. Highly recommended her YouTube for anyone who wants to watch someone actually qualified to give advice.

Blair-Waldorf said:

She’s been reading here clearly

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My good god she’s a fucking twat.
“I’m blessed to not be restricted by medical guidelines”
What the guidelines that are in place so people don’t ya know, die??
Guidelines that are constantly updated & changed as new research comes out ?

Yeah I’d hate a doctor who followed guidelines what a nerd they must be .