There’s no way his organs would be suitable for donation now anyway. I think to donate them you have to basically have died and been put on life support within a few minutes or fairly rapidly (certainly not 40 minutes without oxygen) because your organs need oxygen just like your brain does? I can’t imagine that they were particularly suitable in the first place. Perhaps corneas and skin but not much else. It‘s unlikely Archie had any expressed wishes in this department so why it’s even being discussed is beyond me - family said no, that’s it, end of discussion.
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I think that's how the NHS saw it. They asked, family said no, that's it.
But his mum has made out they want his organs and there are beds of kids lined up to be harvested etc.
Ahh, so what happened was when he was first put on life support, some nice doctor sat them down and asked if they had considered whether organ donation is something Archie or they might have wanted, explained how it would save or prolong a few other kids lives, they said no, the doctor documented that and left it alone. Then when all this started gaining media traction they decided to completely twist the narrative to discredit the staff even more than they have.
This is partly why I have zero sympathy for her.
Like the NHS are backdooring kidneys to fund the next annual staff jolly-up. Mental mindset.
Pretty much!
Sadly its happened a few times hence why these suspicions come up again and again. But as people have said this child's organs would not have been viable anyway.
You got a source or two for that one?
Organs of 50 NHS donors sold to foreigners who pay £75,000 each
Organs from British NHS donors are being given to private foreign patients ahead of desperately-ill Britons, it was revealed last night.
Doctor in organ sale scandal struck off
London GP caught on tape promising to buy kidney on black market and organise transplant for 'greviously ill man'.
www.theguardian.com
Also remember the Alder hay scandal?
Alder Hey organs scandal - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I understand why some people might feel the mother's actions are grief reactions and that she's in the worst place possible , but that doesn't mitigate her awful behaviour and the risks and strains she's putting other people under and the violation of a dead body she's insisting upon.
She must be out of her mind, but there's something extremely sinister about letting him exist like that.
I've looked after patients with difficult, aggressive and confrontational relatives, you find a way to cope and build a rapport, you give a lot of yourself in nursing. One of the reasons I think she's a complete narc is because she literally has no thought for anyone, not for Archie, not for her other kids, not for the nurses or the doctors, not for anything but herself. Archie will be a challenging patient mentally (they're violating a dead body) and physically and intellectually (ICU knowledge is beyond the simple mechanics of most nurses, they do chemical engineering, plumbing and electrics). She's there telling all and sundry he's being neglected in a death chamber, he's been starved and tortured and they're trying to steal his organs. This could be career ending for these nurses, or at the very least could have an enormous impact on them permanently.
If any of you have ever stepped foot in ICU you'll know the absolute vulnerability and brutality these patients face. They poo themselves, they need care even to clear the chest, every toenail and hair is cared for , they need to be turned and checked frequently, mouth and ear care is a must. That's the basics, they're doing this to a dead body. The patients look horrific, there's excretions and secretions and blood. Hollie isn't registering the shock people usually feel about the brutality of it.
Hollie thinks this is all ok, this is all justified behaviour so she can get her very confused point across. She's happy to leave her son like that, basically rotting, in order to fulfil her basic need for I don't know what.
Which brings me to my original point, which it's taken me this long to get to, bad things happen to bad people as well as good people. I don't see how calling Hollie out for what she is is unreasonable. Archie absolutely breaks my heart, he deserves better and many people who are calling out Hollie are doing so because they feel deeply that Archie's body is being used and exploited and it's very very upsetting and unethical.
She must be out of her mind, but there's something extremely sinister about letting him exist like that.
I've looked after patients with difficult, aggressive and confrontational relatives, you find a way to cope and build a rapport, you give a lot of yourself in nursing. One of the reasons I think she's a complete narc is because she literally has no thought for anyone, not for Archie, not for her other kids, not for the nurses or the doctors, not for anything but herself. Archie will be a challenging patient mentally (they're violating a dead body) and physically and intellectually (ICU knowledge is beyond the simple mechanics of most nurses, they do chemical engineering, plumbing and electrics). She's there telling all and sundry he's being neglected in a death chamber, he's been starved and tortured and they're trying to steal his organs. This could be career ending for these nurses, or at the very least could have an enormous impact on them permanently.
If any of you have ever stepped foot in ICU you'll know the absolute vulnerability and brutality these patients face. They poo themselves, they need care even to clear the chest, every toenail and hair is cared for , they need to be turned and checked frequently, mouth and ear care is a must. That's the basics, they're doing this to a dead body. The patients look horrific, there's excretions and secretions and blood. Hollie isn't registering the shock people usually feel about the brutality of it.
Hollie thinks this is all ok, this is all justified behaviour so she can get her very confused point across. She's happy to leave her son like that, basically rotting, in order to fulfil her basic need for I don't know what.
Which brings me to my original point, which it's taken me this long to get to, bad things happen to bad people as well as good people. I don't see how calling Hollie out for what she is is unreasonable. Archie absolutely breaks my heart, he deserves better and many people who are calling out Hollie are doing so because they feel deeply that Archie's body is being used and exploited and it's very very upsetting and unethical.
I think it's not fair to criticise the mum (even though it is very hard not to judge her for her actions) because going through the sudden suicide of your young child must be one of the worst things that can happen to you. And to make it worse, this whole nightmare has been going on for months now, so I'd be suprised if she's in any way functioning as normal. She's also surrounded by voices telling her she's right (including people like lawyers and the medical "experts"). I don't think I'd react like she has, but honestly who knows?
Who I do have ZERO empathy/respect for are the thousands of people enabling this behaviour, giving her false hope etc. And to an extent, the brother's gf who could be a voice of reason but instead is encouraging it.
Today the mum posting again accusing the hospital of a) deliberately trying to kill Archie by starving him and b) sharing his medical records on social media (she means the court documents, which are public records). Instead of sensitively pointing out she's wrong, she's got hundreds of replies telling her how awful they are and what an amazing mum she is. It's horrendous.
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Given that I was in primary school when Alder Hey happened, no I don’t remember it! None of those examples are from the last decade, plus I’m not sure you’ve actually read the daily fail article properly - the organs weren’t sold in private arrangements, but rather people without functioning healthcare systems in their own countries were visiting the UK in dire medical conditions to get onto the transplant list here. As the article states all organ transplant surgeries are on assessed needs basis - and those people chose to travel in a condition that put them really high up the list, which is sad in itself. Those people then paid for what they received. Much like if someone wanted treatment for their condition in a country that wasn’t the UK they’d travel there and pay the health system there above and beyond what the locals would pay for the same service.Organs of 50 NHS donors sold to foreigners who pay £75,000 each
Organs from British NHS donors are being given to private foreign patients ahead of desperately-ill Britons, it was revealed last night.www.dailymail.co.uk
Doctor in organ sale scandal struck off
London GP caught on tape promising to buy kidney on black market and organise transplant for 'greviously ill man'.
Also remember the Alder hay scandal?
Alder Hey organs scandal - Wikipedia
The Dr arranging private organ deals 20 years ago is mildly concerning but given that was 20 years ago… I think we can stop using that to insinuate there’s a NHS run black market going on as standard practice.
You asked for examples and I gave you some. give it another 20 years and I have no doubt more scandals will come to light. Lets not make out these things don't happen all over the world the UK would be no different.
Anyway, this isn't the time or place I was just pointing out that these things can and have happened and people have long memories so these things will be questioned by those who do remember.
It’s spreading misinformation like that that perpetuates the ideas that these guys have though, which I feel is very relevant to this thread.
But none of those situations were remotely like this case … or the quote you responded to.
The first when you get past the headline, is people using a legitimate way to access health care and not actually paying for the transplanted organ at all (I assume it was just the DM ‘forriners coming ’ere and getting our <insert here> usual).
The second is a dodgy doctor who seems to be acting outside the auspices of the NHS.
Alder Hey was an absolute scandal. Incomprehensibly awful but no organs were used for transplant.
The criteria for using organs for transplant is rigorous and the counselling even more so.
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Must be true if its in the daily mail
That's the thing, these things are 'scandals'. They happen rarely, it's clandestine and illegal. The news breaks and everyone goes a bit mad and the dust settles and sane people are horrified and measures are put in place. They've been busted.
With Alder Hey, it gave me a shiver at the time but it wasn't until it was raised with the Alfie Evans circus that I started hearing about it again. It's ancient history . The freaks on AA seem to think every doctor and possibly the ward clerk and the physio are in on some widespread conspiracy to steal his organs, which is a massive leap from any previous situation.
Ten years ago I was faced with the decision to turn off my partner’s life support, or keep her alive with a catastrophic brain injury from which she would never recover. I know she wasn’t my child, but she was the woman I hoped to spend the rest of my life with. At no point did I considered prolonging her life (which was not a life - she was functionally brain dead), accusing the wonderful hospital staff of terrible things, or encouraging a circus of keyboard lunatics to rise up on social media to stoke my delusions.
I do think the people around her are enabling and encouraging this whole thing. I would be very interested if anyone in her family tried to be a voice of reason or if they have all just gone along with her wishes, I know that my parents and in-laws would never go along with all of this and wouldn’t support it at all.
I think Hollie is a bit enamoured with Ella, who seems to be neck deep in this. She seems slightly more pulled together than the rest of them, if no less irritatingly stupid.
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