The Archie Battersbee case #17

[MrsO74]

It's hard to get into CAMHS because it's woefully understaffed and the demand is insane but it's a complete myth you can't get help unless you try to kill yourself. It's just completely false. It's what a lot of parents hear but it's not what is actually said. When I used to work in CAMHS. I can't tell you the amount of times I'd have a lengthy conversation with a parent and we'd do a safety plan etc and I'd say I know it was a long wait and we'd see them as something as we could and give them stuff they could get started with in the meantime and all you'd hear back is 'so they have to kill themselves for you to help!?!'. And then that gets repeated and people don't even refer because they think it has to be that bad. It's a really irresponsible thing for people to say (not you, personally, just in general). I triaged plenty of referrals that we accepted that weren't suicidal.

In regards to your personal situation, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. Unfortunately, if someone has capacity and they don't engage there's really not a lot a clinician can do. You can't force them and it's not ethical to do so but it's so difficult when you know they need help. It becomes a vicious circle.

I know CAMHS is really underfunded too so it must be really hard for the people who work there who just want to help. I think to myself that surely it would be better to help these kids now while they are young so that hopefully a lot of them don't need the same level of help as adults. I'm talking about the funding here.
We are lucky that my daughter has a great CAMHS worker who fights so hard to stop her being discharged completely as he knows how low she can drop without showing any signs. She will stop eating, not leave her room, stop any personal care etc. Her attendance dropped at school last half term and she's told me she's not going back.

I always wonder with Archie that if he had tried with the rope before why he still had access to rope? I guess different mothers do different things but I don't think I could have kept my eyes off him if he was my son.

 

[CallaLily]

I know CAMHS is really underfunded too so it must be really hard for the people who work there who just want to help. I think to myself that surely it would be better to help these kids now while they are young so that hopefully a lot of them don't need the same level of help as adults. I'm talking about the funding here.
We are lucky that my daughter has a great CAMHS worker who fights so hard to stop her being discharged completely as he knows how low she can drop without showing any signs. She will stop eating, not leave her room, stop any personal care etc. Her attendance dropped at school last half term and she's told me she's not going back.

I always wonder with Archie that if he had tried with the rope before why he still had access to rope? I guess different mothers do different things but I don't think I could have kept my eyes off him if he was my son.

Because you're a caring and engaged parent. Holly isn't.
Which is why you're clearly doing all you can to support your daughter, not just ignoring her, as Holly did Archie. Until it was too late.

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

I know CAMHS is really underfunded too so it must be really hard for the people who work there who just want to help. I think to myself that surely it would be better to help these kids now while they are young so that hopefully a lot of them don't need the same level of help as adults. I'm talking about the funding here.
We are lucky that my daughter has a great CAMHS worker who fights so hard to stop her being discharged completely as he knows how low she can drop without showing any signs. She will stop eating, not leave her room, stop any personal care etc. Her attendance dropped at school last half term and she's told me she's not going back.

I always wonder with Archie that if he had tried with the rope before why he still had access to rope? I guess different mothers do different things but I don't think I could have kept my eyes off him if he was my son.

Was it Lauren or Hollie who said the day before Archie was tying the dressing gown cord around his neck and a door handle? Somewhere I think the inquest there was a message exchange between Archie and Hollie. A normal parent would have seen these as red flags.

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

Yup. From a quick glance, she is still continuing to post the Archie memories on behalf of Hollie.
I‘m rarely on Facebook, I just thought I would have a look and see the temperature on the group. Perhaps one of them might have grown a brain cell. But nope.
When the story broke and it was Hollie and she was going to court, so many of the army flooded it to tell her what a great Mum she was and how they would do the same. (I.e chasing someone down in their car) They all seem to agree that because of Archie neither Hollie nor Tom should have been jailed.

A surprising amount of photos of Archie in bed with Hollie, topless Archie, Archie in his underwear, Archie performing. The girl who went on a few dates with Archie making her yearly vigil acting like a grieving widow. A conveyor belt of the same fed to the grief tourist and conspiracy theory nuts who never met or knew Archie who have some sort of emotional void in their own lives.

 

[dressinggownofdoom]

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have a tween son and it wouldn’t occur to me to take pictures of him anything other than fully dressed. Unless maybe taking pictures of the kids playing in the pool.

 

[maytoseptember]

When I was in Year 9 a girl in my year hung herself and it was recorded as 'death by misadventure'.

I think it’s an unspoken rule during an inquest never to rule a death as a suicide without conclusive proof, such as a note. Apparently it harks back to a time when suicide was deeply taboo, and it was seen as a kindness to the family to not use the word. Lots of fairly obvious suicides are recorded as misadventure as a result.

I agree with @GalaxyGirl70, I think there’s a kind of dishonesty to it.

 

[SaLou]

I think it’s an unspoken rule during an inquest never to rule a death as a suicide without conclusive proof, such as a note. Apparently it harks back to a time when suicide was deeply taboo, and it was seen as a kindness to the family to not use the word. Lots of fairly obvious suicides are recorded as misadventure as a result.

I agree with @GalaxyGirl70, I think there’s a kind of dishonesty to it.

I think it really reinforces the (incorrect) idea that it's shameful when they are so reluctant to record an obvious suicide(which some are) as suicide.

It's something that annoys me.

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

We have Hollie's pre jail interview with that equally bonkers so called journalist to look forward to next week. More howling at the moon and witching for the perpetual victim cry bully Hollie.

 

[Starlight_100]

Quote from the article:

The trauma of watching her son starve and dehydrate in hospital, fighting multiple court cases from his bedside - it all weighed heavily.

Hollie should never have been allowed to perpetrate the above then and now.

Her lies are so frustrating, anyone could have read the court files and realised what state Archie was in. He didn't "starve and dehydrate" instead those PICU nurses worked tirelessly to keep a child's bodily functions going even though it was evident that he was gone. They walked into that hospital room every day and cared for a child who had died, they knew he was gone but did everything they could to improve his bodily functions with medication, life support machines and turning the AC all the way up in the room to stop Archie from decaying further in front of his family, even though at this point he was emaciated, not keeping anything in and had necrosis all over his legs. Then they had to face a parent who kept telling them that they were harming her son or trying to kill him. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the staff who looked after Archie developed PTSD or feel upset and angry whenever they are reminded of this case.

I see her prison sentence as justice for Archie.

 

[margaretta]

I think it’s an unspoken rule during an inquest never to rule a death as a suicide without conclusive proof, such as a note. Apparently it harks back to a time when suicide was deeply taboo, and it was seen as a kindness to the family to not use the word. Lots of fairly obvious suicides are recorded as misadventure as a result.

I agree with @GalaxyGirl70, I think there’s a kind of dishonesty to it.

I think it has more to do with historic Christian burial. I think suicides were not allowed to be buried on consecrated ground. This has changed in recent years.

 

[Droosie123]

I think it has more to do with historic Christian burial. I think suicides were not allowed to be buried on consecrated ground. This has changed in recent years.

Usually if there’s no note which proves suicide a coroner can’t say it’s a suicide so has to rule it as something else, often death by misadventure. Archie didn’t leave a note, we can’t know what he was thinking at the time. We can suspect a half hearted suicide attempt which went wrong (my theory) but we can’t prove it.

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

7pm tonight the bonkers journalist will release the interview with Lisa/Hollie. The preview clips are anything to go by it’s tin foil hat time!

 

[Rachel H14]

Watched the first 5 minutes. What's with the music? I'll watch it all later, but just know I will not agree with what they think.

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

They starved and dehydrated Archie. Lost 2 stone very quickly.
Claims wasn't being cleaned and bathed.
Claims NHS didn't have nappies in his size so had to buy them herself.
Believes they put him on end of life straight away.
Didn't trust Doctors and nurses as they were actively trying to kill her child.
Claims was being trolled by nurses and paramedics and has their registrations?
Claims was never offered a glass of water the whole time she was in hospital.
Claims never met such cold people in the hospital.
Has a gagging order so can't name them.
Archie was executed and murdered.
They did something to Archie as he stopped gripping her hand after they took him down for the MRI.
Archie never had a brain stem test (because she stopped it and by the time they got a court order to do it his brain was rotting and dripping into his spine).
Claims Archie is the first person ever to be declared dead via an MRI scan.
Claims wool was being pulled over the Judge's eyes by the Doctors.
Claims wasn't on any life saving drugs
Says Judge would listen to her American quack doctor who said all of Archies brain damage was reversible!
Claims decision to kill Archie was because of the cost to the NHS.
Claims offered the NHS her GoFund me money of she could take Archie home with the ventilator!
Claims they executed her child again.
Claims there were nurses who were completely backing Hollie.
Claims he was progressing and the colour was coming back to his face.
Claims she was feeding him and when she spoke to him in the morning his heart rate and blood pressure would go up because he had heard her voice.
Put chilli oil on his feet and his heart rate and blood pressure went up.
Said dead corpses don't respond via their blood pressure.
Says never stuck a pin in his foot for a reaction and instead of using cold water for a reaction they used hot water.
The brain death lie is for organ harvesting!

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

Watched the first 5 minutes. What's with the music? I'll watch it all later, but just know I will not agree with what they think.

I just scrolled to the bits with Hollie. I turned off the volume and looked at the transcript.

 

[Droosie123]

They starved and dehydrated Archie. Lost 2 stone very quickly.
Claims wasn't being cleaned and bathed.
Claims NHS didn't have nappies in his size so had to buy them herself.
Believes they put him on end of life straight away.
Didn't trust Doctors and nurses as they were actively trying to kill her child.
Claims was being trolled by nurses and paramedics and has their registrations?
Claims was never offered a glass of water the whole time she was in hospital.
Claims never met such cold people in the hospital.
Has a gagging order so can't name them.
Archie was executed and murdered.
They did something to Archie as he stopped gripping her hand after they took him down for the MRI.
Archie never had a brain stem test (because she stopped it and by the time they got a court order to do it his brain was rotting and dripping into his spine).
Claims Archie is the first person ever to be declared dead via an MRI scan.
Claims wool was being pulled over the Judge's eyes by the Doctors.
Claims wasn't on any life saving drugs
Says Judge would listen to her American quack doctor who said all of Archies brain damage was reversible!
Claims decision to kill Archie was because of the cost to the NHS.
Claims offered the NHS her GoFund me money of she could take Archie home with the ventilator!
Claims they executed her child again.
Claims there were nurses who were completely backing Hollie.
Claims he was progressing and the colour was coming back to his face.
Claims she was feeding him and when she spoke to him in the morning his heart rate and blood pressure would go up because he had heard her voice.
Put chilli oil on his feet and his heart rate and blood pressure went up.
Said dead corpses don't respond via their blood pressure.
Says never stuck a pin in his foot for a reaction and instead of using cold water for a reaction they used hot water.
The brain death lie is for organ harvesting!

I work in the NHS, yes Hollie/Lisa, that’s exactly how we care for children We keep em alive so we can harvest their organs and we bully and starve parents. Do you hear yourself?

Honest to god we have an education problem in this country if we are churning out people like Hollie/Lisa and those who believe her.

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

I work in the NHS, yes Hollie/Lisa, that’s exactly how we care for children We keep em alive so we can harvest their organs and we bully and starve parents. Do you hear yourself?

Honest to god we have an education problem in this country if we are churning out people like Hollie/Lisa and those who believe her.

Apparently during lock down she 'educated' herself about brain death and organ harvesting so she could recognise exactly what was happening!

She is thick as pig tit but is also willingly being exploited by fruit loops pushing their own agendas as they also give her a platform to spout her own bonkers theories.

It's telling she has gone from having a national platform of day time tv and tabloids to being interviewed by a conspiracy theorist loon with an audience of hundreds.

She still has Archie's full medical records and is still waiting for someone with medical knowledge to go through them to find he was alive and recovering. She still has this US court case and she still has the case before some UN committee of the right for the disabled. So even in jail she's still wasting time and money. While there are organisations willing to use her to further their own causes she will no doubt continue to pop up now and again with her fruitless challenges.

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

I almost missed these gems and she keeps popping up for a few minutes at a time throughout the documentary:-

Claims they asked about organ donations and she said took him off donor list and their faces just dropped and after that it was hell.
Hospitals profit from organ donations and the drug companies profit as recipients have to be on drugs for life.
They had done something to him in the hospital to stop him waking up.
Archie was a very happy child never negative and was about to go to the pictures and wanted some new clothes.
He had no intention to kill himself. He was always laughing and joking. Any negativity she always managed to turn around.
Very rare he was in a negative mood.
He left the bedroom with the rabbit as Hollie was having an adult conversation and just over 4 minutes later found Archie standing on the stairs with a ligature around his neck. Eyes closed slightly pale lips she ran around him (on the stairs) as she thought he was joking.
She describes the ligature as a hoop and nothing tight around his neck and once he became unconscious his body slumped.
She couldn't get it off so ran out screaming and then went back inside and the Adrenalin kicked in and she managed to snap the ligature and he then fell over the stairs and fell 8 foot and she then started to give CPR.

 

[Sandyclaws]

I hadnt followed this at the time, but if his brain was dripping into the rest of his body because he was live decomposing, surely his organs viability would be affected?
Which means her claims of harvesting are moot? Like surely if she took him off the list, and they probably were compromised by the decomposition, then it was no difference to them if he was alive or dead, because their "harvesting plans" were off the table?

 

[TerrifiedofKittens]

I hadnt followed this at the time, but if his brain was dripping into the rest of his body because he was live decomposing, surely his organs viability would be affected?
Which means her claims of harvesting are moot? Like surely if she took him off the list, and they probably were compromised by the decomposition, then it was no difference to them if he was alive or dead, because their "harvesting plans" were off the table?

When someone is brain dead specially trained staff will sensitively ask what the persons wishes were and they respect the families decision. Many families find comfort that their loved ones will give the gift of life to others and live on in them. His organs may have helped others live when he first arrived. But in the end he was a corpse in suspended animation with a team pointlessly experimenting and trying to keep his failing body functioning.