Succession #2 HBO

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Wasn't it strange the personality change that Tom had when everyone was congratulating him? Suddenly I was watching him like "...huh. he does actually fit the bill pretty well..." there was no more pandering ass-kissing, no more stupid jokes or trying to fit in. Suddenly he had his business face on which we saw glimpses of during the election episode, but suddenly he really seemed serious. Kinda loved it.
I’ve been think about Tom too, and how he’s probably not as useless, work wise, as we might have assumed. He seems to have been running ATN pretty well, managed the election night coverage without many hitches beyond the interactive screen glitch, and seems to take his work seriously. He’s certainly been putting in the hours of graft this last season. So yeah, on balance he’s probably no less competent than a lot of people in similar positions.
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That’s fascinating - I never realised they had changed even slightly.

My absolute favourite bit is the elephant. Because what else would you do when you’re a busy billionaire business owner and the kids are bored of a Sunday afternoon? Hire an elephant for rides around the garden!
 
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It's funny how the male characters do detestable things but people still want to shag and marry them but the only woman to cross that line is blacklisted.
 
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It's funny how the male characters do detestable things but people still want to shag and marry them but the only woman to cross that line is blacklisted.
I think that the issue with Shiv is how despicable she was to Tom, she used and abused him, wanting an open marriage as soon as they wed, not telling him about the baby and then drinking deliberately after telling him, let alone the way she constantly belittled him.

While Roman and Kendall behaved despicably in the business forum, we never saw them treat their partners, or even former partners with such cruelty, that’s why Shiv is disliked so much imo.

And as for the only woman to behave badly, I wanted to shag Naomi, she behaved terribly, Willa was also not particularly nice, former sex worker out to milk Connor for all her worth, their crimes were overlooked by people on here.
 
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It's funny how the male characters do detestable things but people still want to shag and marry them but the only woman to cross that line is blacklisted.
I don’t think you can imply any form of misogyny on this thread, the show is largely about the sidelining of women in an environment of power and we have discussed how sad that is at length.

We have praised despicable women on the show because they have been great characters, and we have hated on despicable men. We also don’t all share the same views on all characters.

Nothing to see here.
 
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Not particularly nice but Willa didn't do anything terrible - she was honest with Connor.

Romans behaviour towards Geri was atrocious. Kendall is awful with his ex wife.

I don't remember Naomi I'll have to re-watch.

I just didn't think Shiv was the worse to warrant so much dislike but I'm fine being disagreed with.
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I don’t think you can imply any form of misogyny on this thread, the show is largely about the sidelining of women in an environment of power and we have discussed how sad that is at length.

We have praised despicable women on the show because they have been great characters, and we have hated on despicable men. We also don’t all share the same views on all characters.

Nothing to see here.
Just making an observation on a gossip board. People are entitled to their opinions but I was feeling a bit sorry for Shiv!

Completely nothing to see here - as you were.
 
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Not particularly nice but Willa didn't do anything terrible - she was honest with Connor.

Romans behaviour towards Geri was atrocious. Kendall is awful with his ex wife.

I don't remember Naomi I'll have to re-watch.

I just didn't think Shiv was the worse to warrant so much dislike but I'm fine being disagreed with.
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Just making an observation on a gossip board. People are entitled to their opinions but I was feeling a bit sorry for Shiv!

Completely nothing to see here - as you were.
I liked Shiv. I liked how well she represented a woman struggling to assert herself in a traditionally male world and I spent the whole season wanting her to let her guard down a bit and learn to love Tom back, find happiness working away from the Waystar shitshow and show them all that she could be even better than they are 😅

Arguably Marcia is a cold hearted witch and I liked her for it. Same with Lady Caroline actually, who is widely loved

Chuckles the Clown Kerry was shagging an older married man for his status and money I warmed to her over season 4
 
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Willa was also not particularly nice, former sex worker out to milk Connor for all her worth, their crimes were overlooked by people on here.
Connor was more than happy to hire her as an escort in the first place, so it’s not like he was tricked into financial abuse by an evil mercenary hooker.

Their arrangement seems to work relatively well, and they arguably have the most amiable and honest partnership on the show. In a story-world where everyone is double-crossing everyone else, I find Willa and Connor to be a refreshingly straightforward couple.
 
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I adored Shiv. All the sibs were utterly damaged by Logan who himself was product of abuse. Shiv had been hard-wired not to love in the traditional way because she'd never known love from either parent. Her feelings for Tom confused and probably frightened her. She showed him love in the way her Dad did to her - the "kicking the puppy to see if it comes back" analogy. In the end, before Tom was even announced, she finally laid herself bare with the most honest, human feelings that come to most people organically during that phone call to Tom on the plane. Their version of a marriage might be somewhat salvageable because she did so before his Succession.

(I know it's only a TV show so I say this whimsically) but my heart ached for all of them in how they arrived at their particular versions of interpreting, showing and even feeling love; albeit in their own, twisted ways. Roman had to be physically hurt or humiliated, Connor never expected to be a recipient of it, Shiv had to be as brutal as possible and Kendall mistook the need to be CEO as the only way to protect and provide for his family as this was the sentence that his Dad always threw out to them; "Everything I did, I did for my children". It never occurred to him that a night in eating pasta and watching DVDs with Rava and attending his kid's school recitals would have actually been everything he could do for his children.
 
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I adored Shiv. All the sibs were utterly damaged by Logan who himself was product of abuse. Shiv had been hard-wired not to love in the traditional way because she'd never known love from either parent. Her feelings for Tom confused and probably frightened her. She showed him love in the way her Dad did to her - the "kicking the puppy to see if it comes back" analogy. In the end, before Tom was even announced, she finally laid herself bare with the most honest, human feelings that come to most people organically during that phone call to Tom on the plane. Their version of a marriage might be somewhat salvageable because she did so before his Succession.

(I know it's only a TV show so I say this whimsically) but my heart ached for all of them in how they arrived at their particular versions of interpreting, showing and even feeling love; albeit in their own, twisted ways. Roman had to be physically hurt or humiliated, Connor never expected to be a recipient of it, Shiv had to be as brutal as possible and Kendall mistook the need to be CEO as the only way to protect and provide for his family as this was the sentence that his Dad always threw out to them; "Everything I did, I did for my children". It never occurred to him that a night in eating pasta and watching DVDs with Rava and attending his kid's school recitals would have actually been everything he could do for his children.
You're bang on. And I love your username!
 
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I adored Shiv. All the sibs were utterly damaged by Logan who himself was product of abuse. Shiv had been hard-wired not to love in the traditional way because she'd never known love from either parent. Her feelings for Tom confused and probably frightened her. She showed him love in the way her Dad did to her - the "kicking the puppy to see if it comes back" analogy. In the end, before Tom was even announced, she finally laid herself bare with the most honest, human feelings that come to most people organically during that phone call to Tom on the plane. Their version of a marriage might be somewhat salvageable because she did so before his Succession.

(I know it's only a TV show so I say this whimsically) but my heart ached for all of them in how they arrived at their particular versions of interpreting, showing and even feeling love; albeit in their own, twisted ways. Roman had to be physically hurt or humiliated, Connor never expected to be a recipient of it, Shiv had to be as brutal as possible and Kendall mistook the need to be CEO as the only way to protect and provide for his family as this was the sentence that his Dad always threw out to them; "Everything I did, I did for my children". It never occurred to him that a night in eating pasta and watching DVDs with Rava and attending his kid's school recitals would have actually been everything he could do for his children.
Absolutely bang on.
 
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I adored Shiv. All the sibs were utterly damaged by Logan who himself was product of abuse. Shiv had been hard-wired not to love in the traditional way because she'd never known love from either parent. Her feelings for Tom confused and probably frightened her. She showed him love in the way her Dad did to her - the "kicking the puppy to see if it comes back" analogy. In the end, before Tom was even announced, she finally laid herself bare with the most honest, human feelings that come to most people organically during that phone call to Tom on the plane. Their version of a marriage might be somewhat salvageable because she did so before his Succession.

(I know it's only a TV show so I say this whimsically) but my heart ached for all of them in how they arrived at their particular versions of interpreting, showing and even feeling love; albeit in their own, twisted ways. Roman had to be physically hurt or humiliated, Connor never expected to be a recipient of it, Shiv had to be as brutal as possible and Kendall mistook the need to be CEO as the only way to protect and provide for his family as this was the sentence that his Dad always threw out to them; "Everything I did, I did for my children". It never occurred to him that a night in eating pasta and watching DVDs with Rava and attending his kid's school recitals would have actually been everything he could do for his children.
Shiv was the most unethical and horribly evil character on Succession.

People keep rooting for her because she's a woman but she betrayed her own gender by tracking down Kira, the sexual harassment victim who was set to testify before Congress and blow a hole in the side of the Roy ship that they wouldn't be able to recover from, and using every Shiv weapon in her arsenal that we've all become so familiar with, she manipulated this woman into stepping down. She didn't use intimidation or threats or any of the vulgarity that might have been employed by her father or her brothers. She was as insidious with this victim of harassment and abuse as she's been with the Succession audience: seducing us with competence, sanity, and a (relatively) friendly face. She's the one who wants to clean house at Waystar, after all; bust every man in management ranks who did wrong, and remake the company her way.

Exactly one week after we all cheered her on for so effectively maneuvering Rhea Jarrell in front of a firing squad and keeping her position of power in her family intact, it's illuminating that it's Shiv and not Rhea who steps out of that car to meet Kira, ready to silence a troublesome whistleblower by any means necessary.

Shiv has time and time again, proven she's the scorpion and the only man to truly understand and be with her is Tom because he understands she doesn't know how to love or show any kindness.

Reference if people how forgotten -->
 
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I will always love Shiv for bleeping over Kendall at the last minute 🥰

While Roman and Kendall behaved despicably in the business forum, we never saw them treat their partners, or even former partners with such cruelty, that’s why Shiv is disliked so much imo.
I don't think we watched the same show 😬
 
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I liked Shiv until she decided to have an employee join her and Tom for a threesome, insisting she wanted to. 🤮🤮🤮
We even saw the poor employee giving Greg a pedicure.
 
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I always thought Shiv wasn't as clever as she thought she was. Think Tom proved that twice when she underestimated him.
 
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I always thought Shiv wasn't as clever as she thought she was. Think Tom proved that twice when she underestimated him.
i always thought that too! i think she had a very inflated sense of her own abilities and, when it came down to it, made the wrong decisions a lot of the time.

i would argue though that tom was a weakness of hers rather than her underestimating him; he was only able to betray her the first time because she begged logan not to make him the sacrificial lamb in season two. i think she realised that in the end. one of the main reasons i’m sad that it’s over is that we’re not going to be able to see the power dynamic shift in that relationship, or them trying to raise a child together. it would be so interesting to watch.
 
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