Shamima Begum

Readread · Aug 29, 2020

idk2 said:
You said "she knew what she was doing" and it was "no fault but her own" as opposed to a rapist or someone who stabbed someone? Do these people NOT know what they're doing and is is it not always their fault for raping/stabbing someone?
You cannot compare these situations. Someone who has raped someone chose to do so at their own risk and as you say, through no fault but their own. They premeditated the attack in many cases, just like terrorists do.

I don't agree she knew the magnitude of what she was doing. She was groomed. How is that HER fault? She was an impressionable teenager who was most likely easily led and very gullible. She doesnt look like the brightest bulb in the box does she? She can hardly string a sentence together. Someone like her is easy prey for radicalisation especially once you hear all the crap they fed her. I am NOT defending her actions and I completely agree she is a threat if she is allowed to live freely in this country but she will NEVER be allowed to do that. If she comes back, she will be in custody 100%. She will answer to her crimes and most likely spend her whole life behind bars. Her face has been plastered across worldwide news, do you really think this girl will live a peaceful life here? However right now, she is without consequences. For all intents and purposes, she is living wherever she is and Britain hasn't done anything which imo is even worse. She should be bought back, imprisoned for life and forgotten.

Whatever they do, it will set precedent for the future.

I didn’t compare their crimes and actions, I was comparing her to someone who is “sent back to their own country” to serve their sentence, which is what I referred to in my original post. You’ve literally copied exactly what I said in saying we can’t compare her to a murderer or a rapist.

Why should she be sent back to the U.K. to serve time, for which the tax payer will pay hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to keep her ‘safe’. She chose to go out there, she wasn’t dragged by her ears. Her and her friends freely walked through the airport singing and dancing. Just because she’s got out of bed one morning and decided she doesn’t want to be a terrorist anymore isn’t good reason for my taxes to be paid for her.

Platypusfattypus · Aug 29, 2020

Radicalisation in children is a safeguarding issue, they are children being groomed. More needs to be done to look at why groups of young people are vulnerable to this type of grooming. You can't decide something isn't grooming because you don't like the "victim".

She should be sent back to the UK because she is a British citizen. Why should Syria, a country that has been torn apart and destroyed partly by Daesh have to keep our problems that we failed to prevent. Am glad she's getting the appeal, so she can face British justice and get a fair sentence.

HockyRorror · Aug 29, 2020

idk2 said:
The news makes this girl out to be much older than she was at the time. She was 15 years old and heavily radicalised. She WAS failed by everyone around her. Schools, parents, family, GP, friends etc. Grooming is incredibly scary, especially in this day and age and a 14 year old who probably hadnt been used to male attention was an easy target as kids can be easily moulded at that age. I know girls in their bloody 20's who will change themselves for their boyfriends.

BIB: Oh, come off it. All the news reports stated that those three girls were 15/16 year old schoolgirls. This wasn’t hidden, it was in the headlines, it was one of the first things mentioned in articles about it and one of the first things mentioned on television and radio news reporting on it.

idk2 · Aug 29, 2020

HockyRorror said:
BIB: Oh, come off it. All the news reports stated that those three girls were 15/16 year old schoolgirls. This wasn’t hidden, it was in the headlines, it was one of the first things mentioned in articles about it and one of the first things mentioned on television and radio news reporting on it.

The news can say someones age and make them out to be/act older? They made her seem like she was completely aware of her actions and doing so of her own free will.

All you have to do is scroll through this thread and compare the language. Those who are pro making her stateless refer to her as a woman past and present. She was NOT a woman when she was groomed. She was a girl, I would argue she still bloody is a girl now, mentally.

Readread said:
I didn’t compare their crimes and actions, I was comparing her to someone who is “sent back to their own country” to serve their sentence, which is what I referred to in my original post. You’ve literally copied exactly what I said in saying we can’t compare her to a murderer or a rapist.

Why should she be sent back to the U.K. to serve time, for which the tax payer will pay hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to keep her ‘safe’. She chose to go out there, she wasn’t dragged by her ears. Her and her friends freely walked through the airport singing and dancing. Just because she’s got out of bed one morning and decided she doesn’t want to be a terrorist anymore isn’t good reason for my taxes to be paid for her.

Right I must have misunderstood your first point, my apologies.

But we'll agree to disagree on the latter point. It baffles me the UK public is fine with tax payers money being used to bomb countries in the middle east but when all these repercussions come out then its an issue when tax payers money may be needed to fix them. Radicalisation comes from those who feel like they have been wronged significantly. Daesh (previously rebels against Assad's regime) was FUNDED by the UK and USA using your tax payers money, they were given training and weapons by so many countries before they became Daesh. To keep a long story short: She was groomed in the UK, it is the UK's problem to fix not only how this occurred but also to make an example of her. It is not Syria's problem and it never was. The UK always getting involved in middle eastern affairs is the problem.

HockyRorror · Aug 29, 2020

idk2 said:
The news can say someones age and make them out to be/act older? They made her seem like she was completely aware of her actions and doing so of her own free will.

All you have to do is scroll through this thread and compare the language. Those who are pro making her stateless refer to her as a woman past and present. She was NOT a woman when she was groomed. She was a girl, I would argue she still bloody is a girl now, mentally.

I’m afraid I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about when you say the news made them out to be older. As I said, all the news reports (well, at least the ones I saw and read) put emphasis on the fact that these were schoolgirls at the time they ran away and that SB was fifteen at the time. I’m not sure what else you think they could have done to tell viewers that she was fifteen other than tell viewers she was fifteen, which they did.

Platypusfattypus · Aug 29, 2020

It's odd that 15 year olds are too young to vote as they can't make a sound decision who should run our country according to a sizeable percentage of those who are against her returning (not all, a sizeable percentage) yet she was old enough to make a decision that would affect the rest of her life

Readread · Aug 29, 2020

She’s 21 now and openly says she wasn’t affected by seeing people beheaded, doesn’t regret joining ISIL, advocated the Manchester arena bombings. Nah, no place for her here IMO. Vile.

cedarpeach · Aug 29, 2020

I think we need to be really careful that we don’t treat her differently because she was a 15 year old girl instead of a 15 year old boy.
Yes, she was radicalised and groomed. So are the many young British men who are radicalised and run off to join isis. We do not show the same levels of empathy towards them. It makes me very nervous how we treat female criminals differently to male criminals. I do not dispute that she was groomed/radicalised. But the fact remains she IS radicalised and likely to be dangerous just as a male member of isis would be.

I still believe she should be brought back to the uk and tried as a british citizen, but she deserves no special dispensation because she was a young woman instead of a young man.

Platypusfattypus · Aug 29, 2020

cedarpeach said:
I think we need to be really careful that we don’t treat her differently because she was a 15 year old girl instead of a 15 year old boy.
Yes, she was radicalised and groomed. So are the many young British men who are radicalised and run off to join isis. We do not show the same levels of empathy towards them. It makes me very nervous how we treat female criminals differently to male criminals. I do not dispute that she was groomed/radicalised. But the fact remains she IS radicalised and likely to be dangerous just as a male member of isis would be.

I still believe she should be brought back to the uk and tried as a british citizen, but she deserves no special dispensation because she was a young woman instead of a young man.

I would say the same about a 15 year old boy. Radicalisation by any extremist group is a big issue and one that's not being tackled really.

cedarpeach · Aug 29, 2020

Platypusfattypus said:
I would say the same about a 15 year old boy. Radicalisation by any extremist group is a big issue and one that's not being tackled really.

Yep, I’m definitely with you on that one.

Have you ever read Two Sisters by Asne Seierstad? It’s about a pair of Norwegian teenagers who run off to join Isis in Syria, and their father’s attempt to find them. It’s really fantastic and looks into how they were radicalised under their parents own noses.

Platypusfattypus · Aug 29, 2020

cedarpeach said:
Yep, I’m definitely with you on that one.

Have you ever read Two Sisters by Asne Seierstad? It’s about a pair of Norwegian teenagers who run off to join Isis in Syria, and their father’s attempt to find them. It’s really fantastic and looks into how they were radicalised under their parents own noses.

Just bought it on kindle. Thank you for the recommendation

Teaplease20 · Aug 29, 2020

It’s so hard to resist the idea of leaving her to fend for herself where she is now, she may have been a teenager when groomed but she’s a grown women and a mother now who shows no remorse or empathy for the crimes shes seen or the terrorist group she’s a part of. I think if she was a young man, there would be no question and no thread for her

HelloStereo · Aug 29, 2020

Yes, absolutely she should be allowed back. She was a UK citizen and we have to appropriate punishment for her crimes here. Let's be honest, if a terrorist or someone from another country committed crime in the UK and the country they originated from said "not our problem any more, you deal with them", there would be uproar.

Readread · Aug 29, 2020

HelloStereo said:
Yes, absolutely she should be allowed back. She was a UK citizen and we have to appropriate punishment for her crimes here. Let's be honest, if a terrorist or someone from another country committed crime in the UK and the country they originated from said "not our problem any more, you deal with them", there would be uproar.

Not really. A lot of criminals are expedited back to their home countries on a daily basis.

hnoz · Aug 30, 2020

Readread said:
Not really. A lot of criminals are expedited back to their home countries on a daily basis.

Someone being expedited back to their own country is the exact opposite of what people are talking about in this case. The U.K. is her home country.

HelloStereo · Aug 30, 2020

Readread said:
Not really. A lot of criminals are expedited back to their home countries on a daily basis.

That's exactly my point. The UK is her home country, it was where she was born and raised.

Readread · Aug 30, 2020

hnoz said:
Someone being expedited back to their own country is the exact opposite of what people are talking about in this case. The U.K. is her home country.

Well it’s not is it. She’s lost her citizenship and is trying to fight to be expedited back to the U.K.

Lanie · Aug 30, 2020

I get the conditions of where she is is appalling but I think that is what prison should be, it shouldn't be a comfortable place to kick back until your sentence is completed. She has spent years hating the UK and what is stands for so why would she even want to come back.

Eltonjohnsflorist · Aug 30, 2020

Readread said:
Well it’s not is it. She’s lost her citizenship and is trying to fight to be expedited back to the U.K.

I strongly suspect removing her citizenship was illegal and a bit of show Boating for javid. She’ll win her legal case, have her citizenship reinstated and come back.

I don’t recall any British Male ISIS members stripped of their citizenship either

doddler · Aug 30, 2020

Lanie said:
I get the conditions of where she is is appalling but I think that is what prison should be, it shouldn't be a comfortable place to kick back until your sentence is completed. She has spent years hating the UK and what is stands for so why would she even want to come back.

because we’re such a soft touch she can be fairly confident if she makes her way back here she’ll get a slap on the wrist, a council house and a tax payer funded life, all with the support of the far left who will tell us “she was just a kid”, as if the rest of us didn’t know crossing the world to join a group responsible for beheading aid workers/journalists and burning pilots alive in a cage wasn’t acceptable when we were 15.

Shamima Begum

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