Sara Sharif case

[Ilovemusic]

He's too stupid to realise that he's digging an even bigger hole for himself. Pity it's not a literal one.

 

[LouBug19]

Oh absolutely I mean it is a sad fact that victims of abuse very often repeat that abuse on others, Baby P's mother for example was subjected to the most horrendous sexual and physical abuse as a child as was Karen Matthews, but they both grew up to do monstrous things to their children. Just because people are victims don't mean they are innocent and kind people, in fact very often the opposite is true if we look at statistics on say sexual abuse and how to gets repeated down generations.

In the US for example a third of sexual assaults are actually carried out by minors on younger children, they are repeating what they suffered.

It IS possible in my experience to break the cycle but only if you can properly acknowledge and address what you went through and how it affects your maladjusted and yes sometimes abusive behaviours in the present day, only then can you really break the cycle and change. I did this work as part of my recovery from addiction but it was extremely difficult and unpleasant and I understand that not everyone has the ability/resources/time/mental wellness to do it.

I can understand that if you as a child were abused or witnessed aggression between your parents you are conditioned in a way that makes you think it's acceptable. I guess it hard for others to understand because we wouldn't do it but it can help us to make sense of it. Once she has children herself you would hope she would've walked away for them. I don't think BB is lying about the abuse she faced but wish she would tell the truth about Sara.

 

[willowxxxx]

But, He cant have understood elements of British culture or values, because it isnt remotely acceptable in British culture or as a British value to abuse a child like this. Its the kind of thing that is totally unacceptable in our society!! Although to be fair, I dont think torturing your own daughter to death is remotely acceptable in any context or any society.

I was just wondering if his change of plea, was because he hadnt completely understood the full implications of British law.

And in this context, when a British child has died in such appalling circumstances, although I am sure they have tried to ensure that US and the rest of his family on trial, do understand proceedings, if he is changing his plea at the last minute, I wonder if he does understand the whole thing in enough depth?

Personally I think the opposite he had a better grasp on British law/ values and what is acceptable more than most people. If he didn’t understand that abusing a child was not acceptable in this country he wouldn’t of forced Sara to wear a hijab to cover her bruises and he wouldn’t of pulled her out of school when they became concerned and then isolated her from the outside world.

He’s been arrested and questioned by the police multiple times for abusing women which i’m sure would have made it clear that violence towards others is illegal. He’s also accused both Sara’s mother and his current wife of abusing him, so he is able to understand that physically assaulting someone is wrong when it is him who is the supposed victim. He filmed Sara saying she was hit by her mother and neglected and then passed that on to SS as he knew they would take this seriously and this is how he gained custody.
He’s also has over a decade of involvement with social services and with all the allegations against him I can only presume he knew how and when to lie and manipulate them to have still been allowed access to children.
He’s also been forced by courts to attend parenting and DV courses so there is no way he is incapable of grasping that abuse to a child is condemned in this society. Sadly he knows the law and the system very well and he’s played it to his advantage for years. I also don’t think there is any society on earth that would condone the severe torture of little Sara. It’s completely inhumane

 

[Mrsell]

So I am interested in how it happens because that’s the stuff we need to deal with, to prevent the pattern repeating.
It’s not about excusing the adults of their terrible behaviour and saying “oh well they couldn’t help it, their dad was a b“.
I find it interesting to what extent people are basically evil, or become evil due to their life experiences. Because some people are evil, no doubt. But most aren’t, some start doing evil things though.

I've commented this previously on another thread but I feel quite passionately about these cases as I was a severely neglected and abused child. Although I didn't specifically suffer much physical abuse the thought of ever hurting my own or anyone else's child is abhorrent. I know there is the saying that 'hurt people hurt people ' and it's undeniably true but everyone has free will and I knew growing up that what I was living with was wrong, I know as an adult it's wrong. These people blaming their childhoods or past abuse also know that what they are doing is wrong and choose to do it still. I have not one ounce of sympathy for them.

Interestingly I've also mentioned previously I have a friend who was a social worker and even with my own history I do still on the whole defend the profession as I saw first hand how aggressive and manipulative my own father was.

I hope the key is thrown away with all of them

 

[Pavement1979]

I used to practice family law and I can only imagine what an extremely difficult client US would be for his legal team. I can imagine him being really inconsistent, changing his instructions frequently and evading important questions. I acted for a man similar to this years ago and he portrayed himself as a victim of DV, when it was absolutely clear he was in fact the perpetrator. It was really difficult to act for him. Based solely on what we've heard in the press, I don't believe US whatsoever. I think he's a manipulative, lying excuse of a human being.

Will be interesting to see if BB gives evidence. For the record, I believe she's equally as culpable.

You were spot on here. He's so inconsistent as today has shown.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Personally I think the opposite he had a better grasp on British law/ values and what is acceptable more than most people. If he didn’t understand that abusing a child was not acceptable in this country he wouldn’t of forced Sara to wear a hijab to cover her bruises and he wouldn’t of pulled her out of school when they became concerned and then isolated her from the outside world.

He’s been arrested and questioned by the police multiple times for abusing women which i’m sure would have made it clear that violence towards others is illegal. He’s also accused both Sara’s mother and his current wife of abusing him, so he is able to understand that physically assaulting someone is wrong when it is him who is the supposed victim. He filmed Sara saying she was hit by her mother and neglected and then passed that on to SS as he knew they would take this seriously and this is how he gained custody.
He’s also has over a decade of involvement with social services and with all the allegations against him I can only presume he knew how and when to lie and manipulate them to have still been allowed access to children.
He’s also been forced by courts to attend parenting and DV courses so there is no way he is incapable of grasping that abuse to a child is condemned in this society. Sadly he knows the law and the system very well and he’s played it to his advantage for years. I also don’t think there is any society on earth that would condone the severe torture of little Sara. It’s completely inhumane

He’s the DARVO king isn’t he? Couldn’t go to half the anger management because he was abused by his wife.

 

[moldwarp]

But, He cant have understood elements of British culture or values, because it isnt remotely acceptable in British culture or as a British value to abuse a child like this. Its the kind of thing that is totally unacceptable in our society!! Although to be fair, I dont think torturing your own daughter to death is remotely acceptable in any context or any society.

I was just wondering if his change of plea, was because he hadnt completely understood the full implications of British law.

And in this context, when a British child has died in such appalling circumstances, although I am sure they have tried to ensure that US and the rest of his family on trial, do understand proceedings, if he is changing his plea at the last minute, I wonder if he does understand the whole thing in enough depth?

I think he understands western democratic egalitarian culture. I just don’t think he respects it or cares to emulate it.

 

[HotesTilaire]

I've commented this previously on another thread but I feel quite passionately about these cases as I was a severely neglected and abused child. Although I didn't specifically suffer much physical abuse the thought of ever hurting my own or anyone else's child is abhorrent. I know there is the saying that 'hurt people hurt people ' and it's undeniably true but everyone has free will and I knew growing up that what I was living with was wrong, I know as an adult it's wrong. These people blaming their childhoods or past abuse also know that what they are doing is wrong and choose to do it still. I have not one ounce of sympathy for them.

Interestingly I've also mentioned previously I have a friend who was a social worker and even with my own history I do still on the whole defend the profession as I saw first hand how aggressive and manipulative my own father was.

I hope the key is thrown away with all of them

This is the trouble when you try to look into it. Hurt people hurt people, that doesn’t mean everyone who gets hurt automatically becomes an abuser. It’s not a black and white thing, good/bad.

The same with Social Services, if you’re in it, you can see how these things happen. It’s not making excuses for them, they’ve done things wrong but they’re never going to be 100%. There’s an epidemic of parental abuse, SS only get involved once abuse has started.

 

[moldwarp]

So I am interested in how it happens because that’s the stuff we need to deal with, to prevent the pattern repeating.
It’s not about excusing the adults of their terrible behaviour and saying “oh well they couldn’t help it, their dad was a b“.
I find it interesting to what extent people are basically evil, or become evil due to their life experiences. Because some people are evil, no doubt. But most aren’t, some start doing evil things though.

Yeah I feel where you’re coming from but philosophers have been debating the nature of evil and nature vs nurture for literal millennia and not agreed on an answer yet, I think tattlers are generally a brighter than average bunch but I don’t think we’re gonna find the answer here lol

I just think you have to take people as you find them and judge them on their actions not their intentions. We live in a society where we all have certain standards to live up to and if we fall short of them in a legal sense then we apply punishment. I don’t give a tit if US pretends he doesn’t understand British culture or whether he’s traumatised or what the duck else. He did a monstrous thing and I wanna see him go doooowwwnnnn

 

[HotesTilaire]

Yeah I feel where you’re coming from but philosophers have been debating the nature of evil and nature vs nurture for literal millennia and not agreed on an answer yet, I think tattlers are generally a brighter than average bunch but I don’t think we’re gonna find the answer here lol

I just think you have to take people as you find them and judge them on their actions not their intentions. We live in a society where we all have certain standards to live up to and if we fall short of them in a legal sense then we apply punishment. I don’t give a tit if US pretends he doesn’t understand British culture or whether he’s traumatised or what the duck else. He did a monstrous thing and I wanna see him go doooowwwnnnn

Sorry I meant I am trying to understand, for myself.

 

[MissTeddy]

This is the trouble when you try to look into it. Hurt people hurt people, that doesn’t mean everyone who gets hurt automatically becomes an abuser. It’s not a black and white thing, good/bad.

The same with Social Services, if you’re in it, you can see how these things happen. It’s not making excuses for them, they’ve done things wrong but they’re never going to be 100%. There’s an epidemic of parental abuse, SS only get involved once abuse has started.

This is very true however, we also know that profound neglect over a long period of time affects brain development of children. It certainly affects empathy and often leads to the creation of adults who are completely unable to function in normal relationships and family life.
obviously this isn’t everyone, but when you combine this abuse with poor life choices, drug and alcohol issues, and other external factors then sadly history very often repeats it self.

 

[Pinklobster]

I really hope that what comes out of this, and other cases recently, is that we as a society stop being afraid of asking difficult questions when it comes to other cultures. It’s a huge problem for services when dealing with travellers, for example, and immigrants from different cultures to ours. IMO we are too afraid of being accused of racism or intolerance. I also hope that it shines a torch on children being taken out of school to be homeschooled. Before anyone shouts at me, I completely understand why would want to, and I have no issue with the concept of it, but it does leave children vulnerable to abuse and they become hidden. There’s been a few big abuse cases over the past few years where the children have either been taken out to be homeschooled or were not at school due to lockdown.

 

[Miscanthus]

Christ it is actually worse

Guildford Dragon NEWS | Guildford Dragon

Guildford News

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View attachment 3267751

This is from a few days ago. The girlfriend was 15.

 

[HotesTilaire]

I really hope that what comes out of this, and other cases recently, is that we as a society stop being afraid of asking difficult questions when it comes to other cultures. It’s a huge problem for services when dealing with travellers, for example, and immigrants from different cultures to ours. IMO we are too afraid of being accused of racism or intolerance. I also hope that it shines a torch on children being taken out of school to be homeschooled. Before anyone shouts at me, I completely understand why would want to, and I have no issue with the concept of it, but it does leave children vulnerable to abuse and they become hidden. There’s been a few big abuse cases over the past few years where the children have either been taken out to be homeschooled or were not at school due to lockdown.

From the little I know about homeschooling, there’s very little oversight from the LA or anyone really. I totally support the right to homeschool, for some it is ideal but there has to be some kind of monitoring and regular contact as well.

 

[willowxxxx]

This is getting beyond belief. He couldn’t even let her die in peace. That poor little girl. There really is no words

 

[Mollywobbles]

No one thinks it is ok to beat a child with a pole.
No one watches her husband beat a child with a pole without taking action to stop it.
guys

 

[Ilovemusic]

It gets worse by the day.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

They’re monsters.

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

From the little I know about homeschooling, there’s very little oversight from the LA or anyone really. I totally support the right to homeschool, for some it is ideal but there has to be some kind of monitoring and regular contact as well.

I read about a scheme somewhere, maybe Scandinavia where they allowed people who wanted to to homeschool but on the condition they joined and participated in a co-op which provided things like social trips, science activities that wouldn’t be possible in the home etc with some flexibility on the curriculum requirements (eg they could teach English and maths “out of order” or teach the romans before the Second World War when the curriculum was the other way round) as long as they could prove they were covering a good chunk of the curriculum

Which seemed a good compromise to me and perhaps one we should look at here. A balance of freedom and oversight.

 

[Mollywobbles]

I read about a scheme somewhere, maybe Scandinavia where they allowed people who wanted to to homeschool but on the condition they joined and participated in a co-op which provided things like social trips, science activities that wouldn’t be possible in the home etc with some flexibility on the curriculum requirements (eg they could teach English or maths “out of order”) as long as they could prove they were covering a good chunk of the curriculum. Which seemed a good compromise to me and perhaps one we should look at here. A balance of freedom and oversight.

My friend’s grandson is homeschooled but goes to clubs, etc for homeschooled children.
It means he socialises with children his own age and parents get to discuss what they are teaching