Real life crime and murder

[Pinkblush]

Those muck food videos have more of a fetish feel than anything else

 

[rosalierae]

I have finsihed the SCR about the family in Sheffield and had some time to process what was in the review. I can appreciate that the family (in particularly mum seems to have tried to access support from multiple services) but it still remains as to where the two oldest have learned this behaviour from to start with. I find it hard to beleive that they have just had these thoughts off the bat.
I read that the oldest had an ongoing problem with pornography and accept he may have seen something along similar lines but i still cant fathom the idea he would wamt to try this out himself - its one thing to view it but another to then physically act this out ( in particular on his own siblings). So who have they learned this from? The report says that dad wasnt all that involved with their upbringing so then did other family members? and its someone else in the family who has abused the children who then have in turn abused siblings. I still have many questions regarding this that the report did not address.
I also feel differently about the agencies involved - it sounds as if that the agencies involved were actively involved with the family with the possible exception of the school who didnt appear to be as proactive ( for the most part at least and assuming this is an accurate account - and not covering for agency failings) . MAST seemed to cop for some of the flack which tbh i find a little unfair as their remit doesnt include dealing with young people and excessive porn consumption - they are more focused towards families/ dealing with misper cases and attendance . This to me suggests there is a definate gap within agencies for dealing with young people and potential sexual issues.

Yeah this was my overwhelming thought about the SCR too. It’s not normal for 2 kids to have this level of sexualised behaviour so where did it come from

 

[bubbadabut]

It's been touched on here before but if anyone is following the Libby Squire trial, the jury are now into their 4th day of deliberations. Any thoughts? Based on the info I've read, I think he will be found guilty for rape, not guilty for murder. I think they will go for the manslaughter verdict instead. Obviously some intense discussions going on in that jury room. The judge will probably agree on a majority verdict soon.

 

[Be More Pacific]

It's been touched on here before but if anyone is following the Libby Squire trial, the jury are now into their 4th day of deliberations. Any thoughts? Based on the info I've read, I think he will be found guilty for rape, not guilty for murder. I think they will go for the manslaughter verdict instead. Obviously some intense discussions going on in that jury room. The judge will probably agree on a majority verdict soon.

I haven't read much at all since the first couple of days but I have been checking the deliberations and I'm shocked the jury have been out so long.

Why would they go for manslaughter in your opinion? I feel like I've missed something crucial here

 

[bubbadabut]

I haven't read much at all since the first couple of days but I have been checking the deliberations and I'm shocked the jury have been out so long.

Why would they go for manslaughter in your opinion? I feel like I've missed something crucial here

I just don't think there's enough evidence that he actually killed her. Post mortem inconclusive. I think he probably did kill her, possibly accidentally. He strikes me as a sick weirdo rather than a cold-blooded killer. But whatever he did led to her death that night. The defence went in very heavy on her mental state though, was not nice to hear. I think that could be swaying a few jurors too.

 

[Be More Pacific]

I just don't think there's enough evidence that he actually killed her. Post mortem inconclusive. I think he probably did kill her, possibly accidentally. He strikes me as a sick weirdo rather than a cold-blooded killer. But whatever he did led to her death that night. The defence went in very heavy on her mental state though, was not nice to hear. I think that could be swaying a few jurors too.

Ok, thanks. I clearly have a lot to catch up on!

I've been neglecting my "trial calendar" a bit recently

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

It's been touched on here before but if anyone is following the Libby Squire trial, the jury are now into their 4th day of deliberations. Any thoughts? Based on the info I've read, I think he will be found guilty for rape, not guilty for murder. I think they will go for the manslaughter verdict instead. Obviously some intense discussions going on in that jury room. The judge will probably agree on a majority verdict soon.

I've been following it although not read anything today yet. I think the fact they have been unable to prove she was dead when she entered the water could be the hindrance to a murder conviction. I would think rape will be guilty and manslaughter based on what he could 'reasonably' have expected to happen to someone in her state (hypothemic, drunk, vulnerable etc). IE: could his actions be such as to cause serious injury or death.

 

[bubbadabut]

I've been following it although not read anything today yet. I think the fact they have been unable to prove she was dead when she entered the water could be the hindrance to a murder conviction. I would think rape will be guilty and manslaughter based on what he could 'reasonably' have expected to happen to someone in her state (hyperthemic, drunk, vulnerable etc). IE: could his actions be such as to cause serious injury or death.

I agree 100%. I also think the timings of him being there are so tight that this is causing a problem for the jury. They've just asked for the original statement of the guy who first heard the screams to be re-read. I can only think that for him to have put her in the river, they must have been near to it when the rape occurred, otherwise he would have had to drag/carry her a long way in that short frame of time.

 

[LilPinkie]

I agree 100%. I also think the timings of him being there are so tight that this is causing a problem for the jury. They've just asked for the original statement of the guy who first heard the screams to be re-read. I can only think that for him to have put her in the river, they must have been near to it when the rape occurred, otherwise he would have had to drag/carry her a long way in that short frame of time.

I’ve been following it. There’s obviously an issue with the jurors about the murder aspect as that’s two times for the judge to go through something now. I do believe he did it. He has lied so much and he returned there the same night after he’d taken her there. He definitely raped her and it’s really upsetting for the defence to keep insinuating blame at her door by saying she was reckless and depressed. It’s victim blaming and really toying with the mental health explanation. And we’ve all been a little reckless getting drunk but we don’t intend to be raped and murdered by some scumbag opportunist loitering around for his next perverted kick. Many murderers begin with voyeurism. It’s really not that far a stretch. Robert Napper began as a voyeur.

 

[bubbadabut]

I’ve been following it. There’s obviously an issue with the jurors about the murder aspect as that’s two times for the judge to go through something now. I do believe he did it. He has lied so much and he returned there the same night after he’d taken her there. He definitely raped her and it’s really upsetting for the defence to keep insinuating blame at her door by saying she was reckless and depressed. It’s victim blaming and really toying with the mental health explanation. And we’ve all been a little reckless getting drunk but we don’t intend to be raped and murdered by some scumbag opportunist loitering around for his next perverted kick. Many murderers begin with voyeurism. It’s really not that far a stretch. Robert Napper began as a voyeur.

Yes I think the judge giving them the manslaughter option is the tipping point. I would have thought the rape charge is cut and dried. Can't imagine the judge will let them keep trying for a unanimous verdict for much longer, surely? I would love to know a count of the way people are voting in that room so far. It's been a while since I've seen one go on as long as this.

 

[LilPinkie]

Yes I think the judge giving them the manslaughter option is the tipping point. I would have thought the rape charge is cut and dried. Can't imagine the judge will let them keep trying for a unanimous verdict for much longer, surely? I would love to know a count of the way people are voting in that room so far. It's been a while since I've seen one go on as long as this.

Definitely. They’re normally out in a couple of days max. It must be torture for her poor family.

 

[Lovegin]

I’ve been following it. There’s obviously an issue with the jurors about the murder aspect as that’s two times for the judge to go through something now. I do believe he did it. He has lied so much and he returned there the same night after he’d taken her there. He definitely raped her and it’s really upsetting for the defence to keep insinuating blame at her door by saying she was reckless and depressed. It’s victim blaming and really toying with the mental health explanation. And we’ve all been a little reckless getting drunk but we don’t intend to be raped and murdered by some scumbag opportunist loitering around for his next perverted kick. Many murderers begin with voyeurism. It’s really not that far a stretch. Robert Napper began as a voyeur.

But that’s the whole point of having a defence to put up a different version of what’s happened for their clients, there’s only 2 people who know what happened that night , one of them is dead so the jury are making sure by the sounds of it that the witness heard something that can place the defendant there, there could be a doubter on the jury

 

[LilPinkie]

But that’s the whole point of having a defence to put up a different version of what’s happened for their clients, there’s only 2 people who know what happened that night , one of them is dead so the jury are making sure by the sounds of it that the witness heard something that can place the defendant there, there could be a doubter on the jury

But their version is to victim blame. It’s disgusting. Anyone who thinks that a court of law is fair to victims and their families needs to read My Sister Milly. What our justice system did to that family in court was barbaric.

 

[LilPinkie]

Third note from the jury to the judge. They are struggling.

 

[Boogs]

If you think about it 12 random members of the public having to make such big decisions is quite crazy. In order to convict of murder you have to be totally sure. I always wanted to do Jury Service and when I did and was selected to be on a jury for a murder trial I found it really stressful. I don’t envy the jury on this emotive case at all.

 

[Lovegin]

If you think about it 12 random members of the public having to make such big decisions is quite crazy. In order to convict of murder you have to be totally sure. I always wanted to do Jury Service and when I did and was selected to be on a jury for a murder trial I found it really stressful. I don’t envy the jury on this emotive case at all.

I don’t think I would any use on a jury , I think I would find it hard to get rid of preconceived thoughts and emotions and to just deal with the facts

 

[bubbadabut]

Judge in the Libby Squire trial has now said she will accept a majority verdict. Day 6 of deliberations, hoping for an outcome today to put an end to this for Libby's family.

 

[Lovegin]

Pawel Relowicz had been found guilty of rape and murder

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

Pawel Relowicz had been found guilty of rape and murder

That is excellent news.

 

[MissTeddy]

That’s a huge relief that such a dangerous man is off the Streets for what is likely to be a very very long time. When is sentencing?