Real life crime and murder

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I totally disagree, she cut a baby out of a womb of a woman that was still alive whilst she did it. Yes her life was tit and she was let down but if that is not pure evil then what is?
I hate that MH is held as a trophy card for why a person should not be locked up/executed/etc
i believe she should be punished, her crime is horrendous - the worst - but most civilised nations agree that executing the very mentally ill is untenable. Her mental health issues arent just depression. I’ve read quite a lot about her now, she had such extreme trauma inflicted on her from birth - every day of her life. It actually damages the brain - like the babies in Romanian orphanages. The damage to brain development is permanent. She is rightly locked up for life. I don't believe killing someone who didn’t have the mental capacity to understand what she was doing is right.
 
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She didn’t hear voices telling her to do it. She actively planned it and went out of her way to cold-bloodedly rip a baby from its mother’s womb. Thank goodness the child lived but will never know her mother. Lots of people have awful childhoods but they don’t all go on to murder. And what about the future issues she may have caused to that child with mental health?
 
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She didn’t hear voices telling her to do it. She actively planned it and went out of her way to cold-bloodedly rip a baby from its mother’s womb. Thank goodness the child lived but will never know her mother. Lots of people have awful childhoods but they don’t all go on to murder. And what about the future issues she may have caused to that child with mental health?
but why execute her - why not just keep her incarcerated ?
 
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An eye for an eye makes the world blind. Also, it actually costs more to sentence someone to death and execute them than it does to keep them in prison for life https://www.thebalance.com/comparing-the-costs-of-death-penalty-vs-life-in-prison-4689874
Then maybe they should ask her daughter and his father what they want. After all, it’s justice for them and their right is the one that counts. I’m all for this for everyone on death row. If the victims can forgive and them not get the death penalty then it’s life in prison. Anyone else’s opinion shouldn’t really be relevant.
 
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i believe she should be punished, her crime is horrendous - the worst - but most civilised nations agree that executing the very mentally ill is untenable. Her mental health issues arent just depression. I’ve read quite a lot about her now, she had such extreme trauma inflicted on her from birth - every day of her life. It actually damages the brain - like the babies in Romanian orphanages. The damage to brain development is permanent. She is rightly locked up for life. I don't believe killing someone who didn’t have the mental capacity to understand what she was doing is right.
The British executed several mentally ill and mentally disadvantaged in the 20th century like Timothy Evans, Derek Bentley, Ruth Ellis and Edith Thompson, and would have executed more like Stefan Kisko, Stephen Downing and Judith Ward if the death penalty had not been removed.
 
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The British executed several mentally ill and mentally disadvantaged in the 20th century like Timothy Evans, Derek Bentley, Ruth Ellis and Edith Thompson, and would have executed more like Stefan Kisko, Stephen Downing and Judith Ward if the death penalty had not been removed.
And those were grave mistakes although the evidence for Timothy Evans is now questionable. If the crimes are heinous and the evidence is inarguable then I believe we should execute, if that’s what the victim’s family want.
 
And those were grave mistakes although the evidence for Timothy Evans is now questionable.
Yes, I don;t think we will ever know with Evans if he was guilty or not. Personally, I don't think he was, but he was so mentally disadvantaged no one ever knew what the truth was as he was well known for making up stories and being caught out with lies.
 
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I have finsihed the SCR about the family in Sheffield and had some time to process what was in the review. I can appreciate that the family (in particularly mum seems to have tried to access support from multiple services) but it still remains as to where the two oldest have learned this behaviour from to start with. I find it hard to beleive that they have just had these thoughts off the bat.
I read that the oldest had an ongoing problem with pornography and accept he may have seen something along similar lines but i still cant fathom the idea he would wamt to try this out himself - its one thing to view it but another to then physically act this out ( in particular on his own siblings). So who have they learned this from? The report says that dad wasnt all that involved with their upbringing so then did other family members? and its someone else in the family who has abused the children who then have in turn abused siblings. I still have many questions regarding this that the report did not address.
I also feel differently about the agencies involved - it sounds as if that the agencies involved were actively involved with the family with the possible exception of the school who didnt appear to be as proactive ( for the most part at least and assuming this is an accurate account - and not covering for agency failings) . MAST seemed to cop for some of the flack which tbh i find a little unfair as their remit doesnt include dealing with young people and excessive porn consumption - they are more focused towards families/ dealing with misper cases and attendance . This to me suggests there is a definate gap within agencies for dealing with young people and potential sexual issues.

Anyway - i still fail to find any sympathy for the parents actions and i am unable to fathom why they both felt death was a better solution than going into care. I understand they both had difficulties from being in care and in foster homes but to then murder them is something else.

JonBenet Ramsey case

I know this is a very old case but i have spent all week listening to the podcast someone recommended in this thread whereby the podast team are convinced that it was an intruder who killed JonBenet. Despite listening to the case putforward on the podcast i remain unconvinced by the majority of their theories. I have a lot of thoughts so i am bullet pointing each one ( so it doesnt become a thought purge):-
  1. I still belive that someone in the Ramsey family is responsible for her death. For a town that did not deal with murder crimes / serious crime what is the odds of this happening and expecially at xmas when most people will be at home ( although i do know that in the USA they do not have boxing day as a bank holiday like we do).
  2. Lou Smit - who was funding this guy to do detective work? The podcast said he lost his DA job so if this was his life work then where did his income from? Did John Ramsey fund him?
  3. I did not know that there had been a suitcase underneath a window and that there was broken glass on said suitcase. This could lend itself to the suggestion that there was indeed an intruder but could also have been broken by the perp to get out of the house? Could also have been broken for ages as by all accounts no one accessed this part of the house at all.
  4. I find it BEYOND crazy that no one thought to check every single room in the house whilst looking for JonBenet (including the police). If the house was that large ( which suggests it could be as the Ramseys were worth several million dollars) then it makes sense to look in very bloody corner twice over.
  5. JonBenet was stun gunned twice (face and back) would suggest that this was to silence her so the assault could take place - yet the podcasters are suggesting JonBenet was alive throughout her ordeal and was then killed afterwards. Sorry - this makes no sense to me? why use a stun gun at all then? Does this then mean that JonBenet's killer was in fact not only a p..d..o.phile but also a necrophiliac? It is possible but its a stretch for me.
  6. The podcasters mention a family called the Hendersons -if they would have turned up on my door randomly accusing me of such a crime i would have punched them into next week. Its one thing for a step mum ( yes not even their biological parent) to be a theif and fired from the company she was embezalling from to then getting her step sons to then sexually assault/kill JonBenet. There is no correlation between theiving and murder. They should not have even made this list that Lou Smit has made. THIS THEORY IS BEYOND LUDICROUS. This is a very serious accusation to make about two men who are not even biologically linked to this woman ( the embezzler).
  7. I cant get past the fact that the ransom note was written in the house itself on one of their notepads and the fact it is 2.5 pages long. Who in the right mind is assualting/murdering a child and then writing a note about it to leave for the family. I also find it very odd that they asked for 118 thousand dollars. This amount is very specific. Who else other than the family would know about this? Find it hard to believe a random would know this was John Ramsey's bonus of the year.
  8. I remain convinced that someone in this family is guilty of murdering JonBenet. It is possible its a crime that has gone seriously wrong - so perhaps the perp wanted to assault her so used the stun gun yet something went wrong and killed her in a panic.
 
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I remain convinced that someone in this family is guilty of murdering JonBenet. It is possible its a crime that has gone seriously wrong - so perhaps the perp wanted to assault her so used the stun gun yet something went wrong and killed her in a panic.
I think this is the most likely explanation. There’s just too many parts that don’t add up in the theory that there was an intruder - it’s the note that seems so off to me. As you said what intruder would have time to look around for a pad, a pen, and write a note that long?
 
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I think this is the most likely explanation. There’s just too many parts that don’t add up in the theory that there was an intruder - it’s the note that seems so off to me. As you said what intruder would have time to look around for a pad, a pen, and write a note that long?
Exactly - the podcasters theories imo were all way too complicated and complex with the whys.
 
i believe she should be punished, her crime is horrendous - the worst - but most civilised nations agree that executing the very mentally ill is untenable. Her mental health issues arent just depression. I’ve read quite a lot about her now, she had such extreme trauma inflicted on her from birth - every day of her life. It actually damages the brain - like the babies in Romanian orphanages. The damage to brain development is permanent. She is rightly locked up for life. I don't believe killing someone who didn’t have the mental capacity to understand what she was doing is right.

Indeed, I'm not a fan of the death penalty in any circumstances and especially not when the person has severe MH issues (which have got worse over time) and learning g difficultoes.

This doesn't mean I think she is excused punishment for what she did but she needs prison and no parole. Reports say she can only be managed with medication and that she frequently disappears into her own world.

Psychosis doesn't mean a person cannot plan ...that's well known.

However if I was a relative of Bobby-Jo Stinnett I'd be raging and want the death penalty to be carried out. Doesn't mean this is right though.

What she did was just beyond horrendous and Bobby-Jo was found by her poor mother. Just horrific.
 
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However if I was a relative of Bobby-Jo Stinnett I'd be raging and want the death penalty to be carried out. Doesn't mean this is right though.
Agree. If someone did that to my daughter I’d kill them myself - but that is why we have a legal system. If we let victims decide the punishments we’d be back in medieval times with heads on spikes.

The Libby Squire murder trial has started today.

Hull Daily Mail are doing live reporting.
I will follow the live reporting. Thank you.
 
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I’ve always been against the death penalty - no matter what the crime. But I do find it very interesting, and watch every DP documentary I find.
It costs millions to execute somebody and usually takes around 20-30 years. It is cheaper to keep them a prisoner.
Revenge is not justice either. You wouldn’t rape a rapist or steal from a thief.
It is especially not ethical to execute somebody that does not have mental capacity, whether MH or learning disability. The American justice system is wild & def do not follow these guidelines they are meant to follow. You just have to look into Aileens case to see it. The woman was not well at all.
Being against the DP does not mean people are sympathising with the perpetrator either. A lifetime in an American prison is not pretty.
 
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I am also against the death penalty as well but not for ethical reasons - I think anyone who commits a heinous crime against another human being ( I think you could argue that all people who fall into this category have MH issues). There is no way you could call anyone who can commit such crimes sane. For those who do have genuine MH issues ( thinking those who have schizophrenia or other similar psychosis disorders in particular ) need slightly more leniency and a proper treatment programme.
Anyway going back to my original point - I think those that commit terrible crimes should be locked up with no chance of parole. This to me is more suited. I have no empathy for people who take a life purposely.
 
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