I have done jury service twice, the first was guilty - drugs/gang stuff and the second not guilty- attempted murder of a child. We saw a lot of evidence for the child one and I am haunted to this day by what we saw, by the verdict that was reached and just the whole process. I believe absolutely in the whole "jury of your peers" type justice but if I never have to sit through and hear/see that kind of evidence again I wouldn't be sorry.
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I wrote much of this sixteen years ago (can't actually believe it's been that long) but it still stands today.
Unfortunately, the reason Maxine Carr needs lifelong anonymity is because she has been vilified by the press in this country, desperate for a new Myra Hindley to write about. But Maxine Carr isn't Myra Hindley, not by a long chalk - she's just a very stupid and naive young woman.
To me, it boils down to this - she lied about her whereabouts. A pretty stupid lie as she was in Grimsby, out in the pubs, seen by lots of people and caught on CCTV, but a lie all the same. She absolutely categorically wasn't there when Holly and Jessica were murdered and the jury, who heard all the evidence, cleared her of assisting an offender. But how much damage did that lie do? Yes, it threw police off Ian Huntley's trail for a few days but he’s hardly a master criminal is he? Asking police officers about DNA and mobile phones? Not wanting to appear on national television? Scrubbing his car in front of the whole village? But even if they’d known Maxine Carr wasn’t there and they suspected him straight away, they wouldn’t have found Holly and Jessica’s bodies any quicker as they were discovered purely by chance. It took months of very thorough forensic work to prove that Holly and Jessica had actually been in his house and to link his car to where their bodies were found. As soon as he was arrested, he never talked, he was never going to confess – he pretended to be insane.
And I’ll tell you this, if I’d been out, drunk and kissing other men, no doubt feeling guilty, and had come home to my violent and controlling partner asking me to lie, and it never occurring to me that he had anything to do with these girls disappearing and knowing that if I didn’t lie, I’d no doubt get the tit kicked out of me (again) then I’d have lied too. And before people get all judgemental, how many people do lie to the police? Small lies - ‘Officer, I didn’t realise I was speeding’? - but lies all the same. We’re all capable of it – not in a case of this magnitude maybe – but as soon as she was arrested, she confessed she’d been lying.
I’ve also read headlines that Maxine Carr provided him with a ‘false' alibi once before – but when you read the story closely, you will find this: Ian Huntley was charged with rape, Maxine Carr gave him an alibi, the victim then said Ian Huntley didn’t do it and the charges was dropped. In my view, that ‘alibi’ has never been proven to be ‘false’ – it's just press manipulation once more.
No one will ever know for certain what happened in that house except Ian Huntley. Maxine Carr made an error of judgement however, it had no real impact on the outcome – the right person was caught and will, no doubt, spend the rest of his life in prison. To my mind, if Maxine Carr hadn’t gone out that night, Holly and Jessica would still be alive – I truly believe that’s what tipped Ian Huntley over the edge that evening. He'd been turned down by another woman he was trying to arrange a date with. He was angry about that and furious that Maxine was out on the town and out of his control. And then Holly and Jessica appear asking for Miss Carr....
Maxine Carr must live with that for the rest of her life and you don’t need to be in a prison to feel that kind of guilt
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Re WC tomorrow. The court is asking for DTA ( defendant to attend ) but just defence counsel.
that’s quite odd. God alone knows what it’s about.
that’s quite odd. God alone knows what it’s about.
That does put things into perspective. To be honest, I know quite little about the Soham murders as I was young at the time and the redhanded podcast is quite short only about 40 mins compared to their usual hour or multiple part episodes. They mentioned a documentary which I will try to watch.
Maybe a hearing in readiness for his next hearing on 9th July where I believe he's due to enter his plea on the murder charge?
That's assuming she has a conscience. She was grinning and laughing while spewing calculated lies. I get what you say from a legal aspect that it didn't affect the outcome but what about the human aspect. She wasn't covering for bank robbery, it was two children. Two families misery drawn out because of her lies. You're right , she's no Myra hindley but no way can her display and lack of conscience be put down to stupidity and naivety.
An abusive relationship?
One lie. One stupid, easily disproven lie.
And I don't believe that lie prolonged anything - an inept investigation did that. The police should have been all over them and that house from the start, as the last place they were seen alive at and person they were last seen alive by, checking everything but it wasn't until Huntley finally appeared on national TV, despite his understandable initial reluctance (I've seen a recording of him making sure with a local news crew that the interview he was about to give wouldn't go national) and people from Grimsby began calling in that they started to put it all together.
And with all due respect, you don't know anything about her conscience or how well she sleeps at night. In fact, 95% of what you think you know about her is just rumour, speculation and conjecture.
And no, I'm not her before anyone asks!
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why just defence to attend ? Maybe the psych reports are not ready ?
Didn’t Maxine Carr slip up though when appearing on a news interview by referring to one of the girls in the past tense? It’s a huge red flag saying was rather than is about a little girl who has just gone missing a few days before. She knew they were dead and he was involved.
With respect you don't know anything about her conscience yet you state below
Maxine Carr must live with that for the rest of her life and you don’t need to be in a prison to feel that kind of guilt
How do you know she is living with a heavy burden of guilt.
I'll leave it at that.
It’s easy for me being me to say but if you’re in an abusive relationship that’s that bad you don’t see a way out, surely the murder of 2 little girls would be it.
They spoke about this on the podcast, there was a few things she did like spoke about Holly and Jessica in the past tense as well as telling a very elaborate story that was apparently very animated.
I saw a documentary, think on the C&I channel. Where Huntley and Carr’s old neighbour had befriended her and had gone to theirs for a coffee only for Maxine to get jumpy and wash and dry the cup and Chuck the neighbour out incase Huntley caught them together. It smacked of massive abuse to me that she was scared to be found chatting with a neighbour.
She did use past tense, yes. However, the jury found her not guilty of assisting an offender therefore they weren't convinced that she knew and they heard all the evidence.
Charge - I think the key words here are "knowing or believing"
Maxine Ann Carr: Assisting an offender.
Ian Kevin Huntley having committed an arrestable offence, namely the murder of Jessica Aimee Chapman, Maxine Ann Carr between the 3rd day of August 2002 and the 18th day of August 2002, knowing or believing that the said Ian Kevin Huntley had committed the said offence or some other arrestable offence, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse provided false accounts of her own whereabouts and the activities and whereabouts of the said Ian Kevin Huntley on the 4th day of August 2002 and the 5th day of August 2002 for the said Ian Kevin Huntley, with intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of the said Ian Kevin Huntley
There was another one exactly the same in respect of Holly.
Charges against Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr
Details of the charges to which Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr have entered pleas.
www.theguardian.com
She was, quite rightly, convicted of perverting the course of justice in relation to providing Huntley with a false alibi.
Erm ….. anyone who starts a sentence “ with respect “ is usually far from respectful.
Nobody except MC can comment on her state of mind or guilt but I suspect her life has been far from easy unless she is an utter monster.
An unbelievably sad sad case.
You're assuming she knew about the murders...
And I don't remember her story being that elaborate - she just said she was in the bath
I didn't exactly say she was - more that she should be.
But I will tell you something. On the night of the verdicts, or maybe it was the night after, the BBC did a special programme about the case and it included an audio tape recording of Maxine Carr being told by the police that they had found the burned football shirts. She let out what can only be described as this wail and was absolutely inconsolable, sobbing "it can't have been" over and over. I've never heard it since but I have never forgotten it. I honestly don't think you can fake that sort of reaction.
You probably do, as you seem to think she's some kind of sociopath, but I don't.
Anyway, I will leave it there. I was far too obsessed with the case, and in particular the trial, at the time, to the point where I talked about it endlessly and my ex was quite concerned about me especially after he woke me up one morning and I thought he was Huntley, who I'd been dreaming that I'd gone to visit in prison
And I feel like I've regressed sixteen years arguing the case for Maxine Carr. It's just not healthy.
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Goodness me.You're assuming she knew about the murders...
And I don't remember her story being that elaborate - she just said she was in the bath
I didn't exactly say she was - more that she should be.
But I will tell you something. On the night of the verdicts, or maybe it was the night after, the BBC did a special programme about the case and it included an audio tape recording of Maxine Carr being told by the police that they had found the burned football shirts. She let out what can only be described as this wail and was absolutely inconsolable, sobbing "it can't have been". I've never heard it since but I have never forgotten it. I honestly don't think you can fake that kind of reaction.
You probably do, as you seem to think she's some kind of sociopath, but I don't.
Anyway, I will leave it there. I was far too obsessed with the case, and in particular the trial, at the time, to the point where I talked about it endlessly and my ex was quite concerned about me especially after he woke me up one morning and I thought he was Huntley, who I'd been dreaming that I'd gone to visit in prison. And I feel like I've regressed sixteen years arguing the case for Maxine Carr. It's just not healthy.
I won’t say anything more about it because as I said I don’t know a great deal about the case but I’m interested in it now so I’ll do a bit more digging when I have the chance.
Totally off topic, but I am so pleased to come across another Murder, She Wrote fanOh, I absolutely loved it. All my other jurors thought I was weirdand just saw it an inconvenience but I felt like I'd been waiting my whole life for the calling ever since I saw an episode of Murder, She Wrote when I was about eight and JB was a juror - it was the first episode I ever watched and it is still my favourite. Honestly, I would be a full time juror if I could
The dream would be to get called again and to The Old Bailey this time. Maybe I am weird
I think they use a lot of computer generic imagery in murder cases these days.
Not for certain but I think all indications were it was Dizzy Rascal from the little I read on the thread on here about it. What a tragic loss to the music world that would be
Jessica Flecther is my heroine, I've seen every episode a million times!
Trigger warning - child abuse / death
I remember this really well too, from SE London but not Croydon. From memory it’s because he was moving her from under the bed back up, and the police hadn’t searched under the bed at the time. It makes me wonder how the Nan didn’t know tbh, surely you’d have smelt decomposition from memory it happened at the height of summer?
He also had hidden a memory card of images of her posed whilst dead in the end of a broom handle. Absolutely horrific.
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