Well she's not old. She's 50.
I think the original conviction was right seeing as her actions led to the woman's death.
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I think the original conviction was right seeing as her actions led to the woman's death.
I don’t think you can say her being angry means she wasn’t anxious/scared? If its fight, freeze or flight that people are meant to respond as then she was in fight mode.
The no remorse after is shocking but also irrelevant to her action given not even the prosecution are trying to claim it was intentionally done to kill or even injure the cyclist. Vulnerable people don’t always act or appear like people think they “should” and it doesn’t make them any less vulnerable. Would the CPS not have pursued it if she’d been crying and remorseful? If not, why? The action was the same. They aren’t charging her with negligence for leaving the scene or implying she’s not remorseful cos she meant to hurt the cyclist.
Where did you read this?
I know she has CP and vision issues but not that she was unable to understand her actions due to ‘severe learning difficulties’.
Teacher 'laughed when boy, 15, mentioned age before having sex with him twice'
A TEACHER laughed and told a 15-year-old pupil to “shut up” when he mentioned his age before they had sex twice, a court heard today. Rebecca Joynes, 30, is accused of having sexual rel…
www.thesun.co.uk
Crazy lady. If in my school days I was sleeping with an hot female teacher I wouldn't have been keeping it a secret either. She abused her position, but lads will be lads and share.
She’s been diagnosed with autism post-trial and is frequently described as childlike and living in supported living.
If gesticulation is close enough to pushing to be described as such and physical contact claimed, then what we know is surely enough to surmise there’s learning difficulties. Not to mention that autism would likely affect the way she appeared to react.
She was judged to know right from wrong - I read somewhere.
Perfectly put. It was pretty clear to me that this woman didn’t really have the capacity to control her impulses or foresee what her actions might cause. Like you say, no winners here - and it chimes really well with the discussion above about the lack of adequate mental health services serving people out in the community.
Yes sorry my last post was clumsily put together. I was trying to get across how that clip of the accident and leaving the scene could be interpreted by a jury as someone angry, causing harm and walking off whilst a woman died in the street. There’s obviously mitigating factors here which they will have heard at trial and made their decision on what was put to them.
Fight or flight is something we all deal with regularly. Most of us have the ability to quickly process which one will get us out of the situation and which one will get us in a load of bollocks. Again this is a woman with disabilities who obviously didn’t process the situation in a way that most of us would like to think we would.
I don't think she should have been given a custodial sentence. IMO she shouldn't have been convicted in the first place.
It's important to remember when this happened, it was back in 2020 at a time when everyone was hyper aware of COVID and the 2 metre rule etc. It wasn't uncommon for people to tell others to keep back around those times, or when you were out on your daily walk to cross the pavement to avoid passing too closely to others.
Auriol Grey is also partially blind so that probably heightened her fear, something coming towards her at faster than walking pace but not being able to properly see what it was.
It's very sad that someone died but I don't think it's her fault. To be brutally honest, the cyclist should not have been on the footpath in the first place (the fact that no one seemed to know if it was a shared cycleway is ridiculous - there's no signage to say it was, which suggests it wasn't, however the judge in his summing up said it was, and given there was nothing conclusive either way he shouldn't have done so). However even if it was a shared pathway, on seeing a pedestrian ahead should have either moved into the road or crossed to the opposite pavement to maintain an appropriate distance. In terms of the hierarchy of road users, pedestrians are the most vulnerable, so a cyclist should give way to them.
It's important to remember when this happened, it was back in 2020 at a time when everyone was hyper aware of COVID and the 2 metre rule etc. It wasn't uncommon for people to tell others to keep back around those times, or when you were out on your daily walk to cross the pavement to avoid passing too closely to others.
Auriol Grey is also partially blind so that probably heightened her fear, something coming towards her at faster than walking pace but not being able to properly see what it was.
It's very sad that someone died but I don't think it's her fault. To be brutally honest, the cyclist should not have been on the footpath in the first place (the fact that no one seemed to know if it was a shared cycleway is ridiculous - there's no signage to say it was, which suggests it wasn't, however the judge in his summing up said it was, and given there was nothing conclusive either way he shouldn't have done so). However even if it was a shared pathway, on seeing a pedestrian ahead should have either moved into the road or crossed to the opposite pavement to maintain an appropriate distance. In terms of the hierarchy of road users, pedestrians are the most vulnerable, so a cyclist should give way to them.
Going by this reporting...
Disabled woman, 50, has manslaughter conviction overturned
Auriol Grey, the disabled pensioner who was jailed for causing the death of a cyclist in a pavement row, has had her manslaughter conviction overturned.
It was a shared cycleway, so it wasn't a foothpath, and the path was eight feet wide.
The court does appear to have adopted a perverse interpretation of manslaughter.
" The Appeal Court judges agreed, with Dame Victoria saying the jury hadn't been asked to decide 'the fundamental question of whether a base offence was established'.
" She continued: 'The appellant's actions that day contributed to Mrs Ward's untimely death. Had Mrs Ward not died, we regard it as inconceivable that the appellant would have been charged with assault.' "
Which is a bit odd, as the logic is if you chase someone into the path of a car - so long as you do not physically assault them - your are good to go.
Though this from the appellant counsel stretches credibility...
" Mr Darbishire said: 'Hostile gesticulation is not a crime, otherwise we would have 50,000 football fans each weekend being apprehended.' "
Hostile gesticulation can be a crime, indeed it can be a component of any number of crimes - harassment, threatening behaviour etc
And the reason 50,000 football fans are not arrested each weekend is because
a) there are not enough cells, nor police to process them, nor court time to prosecute.
and
b) because sectors of the economy would collapse within six months, as a proportion of that 50,000 being arrested each week will have jobs that stipulate they must not have a criminal conviction.
I get the court was going out of its way to let her off, but at least make it make sense.
The irony of the news report video on the link - a cyclist goes passed the reporter - on the pavementAuriol Grey's manslaughter conviction has been overturned by the Court of Appeal today
Auriol Grey has cyclist manslaughter conviction overturned
Auriol Grey's family say they are relieved her ordeal is now over following the Appeal Court ruling.www.bbc.co.uk
That was found not to be grounds for appeal.
Many articles state the police and council weren’t sure whether that bit was in fact a shared cycleway or not and both one of the investigating officers and a council rep admitted that in court (though the judge did say it was in his summing up) so given that I reckon you have to conclude that Grey was reasonable to believe it wasn’t whether or not you think she committed an offence. If the police and council(!!) can’t say for sure either way, how is a partially sighted woman (with or without learning difficulties) supposed to know it’s shared?Going by this reporting...
Disabled woman, 50, has manslaughter conviction overturned
Auriol Grey, the disabled pensioner who was jailed for causing the death of a cyclist in a pavement row, has had her manslaughter conviction overturned.www.dailymail.co.uk
It was a shared cycleway, so it wasn't a foothpath, and the path was eight feet wide.
The court does appear to have adopted a perverse interpretation of manslaughter.
" The Appeal Court judges agreed, with Dame Victoria saying the jury hadn't been asked to decide 'the fundamental question of whether a base offence was established'.
" She continued: 'The appellant's actions that day contributed to Mrs Ward's untimely death. Had Mrs Ward not died, we regard it as inconceivable that the appellant would have been charged with assault.' "
Which is a bit odd, as the logic is if you chase someone into the path of a car - so long as you do not physically assault them - your are good to go.
Though this from the appellant counsel stretches credibility...
" Mr Darbishire said: 'Hostile gesticulation is not a crime, otherwise we would have 50,000 football fans each weekend being apprehended.' "
Hostile gesticulation can be a crime, indeed it can be a component of any number of crimes - harassment, threatening behaviour etc
And the reason 50,000 football fans are not arrested each weekend is because
a) there are not enough cells, nor police to process them, nor court time to prosecute.
and
b) because sectors of the economy would collapse within six months, as a proportion of that 50,000 being arrested each week will have jobs that stipulate they must not have a criminal conviction.
I get the court was going out of its way to let her off, but at least make it make sense.
ETA: excerpt from one article saying it:
The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway.
Cambridgeshire County Council subsequently reiterated that and said it would review the location, but in his sentencing remarks Judge Sean Enright said it was a shared cycleway.
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It would be ironic if that lack of clarity were to lead to corporate manslaughter charges against the council.
Meaning one woman is dead, the car driver has lost her marriage, and the person responsible carries on oblivious.
I think it was a bit tit of the original judge to include it in his judgment to be honest.
Grey presumably thought it was just a pavement, Mrs Ward presumably thought it was a shared cycleway and neither of them were at all unreasonable in their thinking given the police and council had to admit “Yeah we aren’t sure” in court. Especially as Grey was partially sighted - if the presumably sighted police and the council who would have been responsible for designating the bloody thing don’t know she didn’t stand a hope in hell, so the judgement saying she should have expected a cyclist there is frankly ridiculous.
And it is an important aspect because the shock forms part of her reaction. Along with the other failings in the case, I don’t think the original judge did a very good job tbh and all convicting her to have it overturned does is drag out for all parties involved.
Slightly off topic but MH related.
I was on my way to work this morning and I went cross country to avoid the inevitable car park that the M56 has become and the car in front of me slowed down to practically 5 mph then speeds up then starts veering from side to side. The passenger door opens and I could see an elderley lady trying to get out of the moving car, it stopped and myself and a couple of others went to help. It was an elderly couple in their late 80s. She was having a BP episode and thought her husband was going to kill her ( he wasn’t )
They have no children or neighbours and absolutely zero help from their GP who claims there is nothing wrong with the lady. The paramedics arrived and calmed her slightly but they took over an hour so I stayed with them. I felt so bloody sorry for them both. He called me just now to thank me and I offered to help with getting them some support at home as he’s 88 and he can’t cope much longer on his own as he has no support network.
MH is an absolutely epidemic now over all age groups and the NHS is stretched to breaking point … I’m really worried for this sweet couple who have been married for 60+ years.
It’s such an utter mess.
Apologies for the me rail.
I was on my way to work this morning and I went cross country to avoid the inevitable car park that the M56 has become and the car in front of me slowed down to practically 5 mph then speeds up then starts veering from side to side. The passenger door opens and I could see an elderley lady trying to get out of the moving car, it stopped and myself and a couple of others went to help. It was an elderly couple in their late 80s. She was having a BP episode and thought her husband was going to kill her ( he wasn’t )
They have no children or neighbours and absolutely zero help from their GP who claims there is nothing wrong with the lady. The paramedics arrived and calmed her slightly but they took over an hour so I stayed with them. I felt so bloody sorry for them both. He called me just now to thank me and I offered to help with getting them some support at home as he’s 88 and he can’t cope much longer on his own as he has no support network.
MH is an absolutely epidemic now over all age groups and the NHS is stretched to breaking point … I’m really worried for this sweet couple who have been married for 60+ years.
It’s such an utter mess.
Apologies for the me rail.
We are at Butlins at the moment and a couple came up to my partner in the queue at Burger King to ask him if he’s got any gear on him!
What annoyed me more at the time was the fact my partner is black and was wearing a track suit as we’d been go karting and needed something to cover arms and legs up and I thought how convenient asking the only black man here! Didn’t see him ask no one else.
Then I thought hold on, who does drugs on a kids holiday? The mum and dad was wired up to the moon
.
Gosh, this is awful
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