Real Life Crime and Murder #15

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I can't find the lucy letby wiki if anybody has a link please?
Pat Brown the criminal profiler has an interesting video up about LL, she believes LL has Munchausen by Proxy.

Yes I find the dicussion about her love life interesting- the media certainly protrayed her to begin with as a party animal with the pictures they chose and now during the trial they've gone down the loner weirdo ruote just because she supposedly didn't have a relationship of significance, or at least one that wasn't mentioned. It just adds to the general nuance in society that relationships are kind of expected and if you don't have one there's something wrong with you! I play in a soccer team and I'm single and even I see the coach playing players more that are in relationships lmao like she trusts them more or they are of more value because they have a partner! It's such an unhealthy mindset to have. Finding a partner is just pure luck. Rant over
 
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I think with the Lucy Letby case, in my opinion, I am looking for answers because I find it so horrifying. I read that she shoved hard plastic tubes down new born babies throats?! I can’t get my head around why someone would do that. And I think part of it (again this is just what I feel) that makes it feel even harder to understand is because she’s a woman, it seems to go against nature that a woman working as a midwife could destroy something so precious as a newborn baby. I don’t know if that’s internalised misogyny on my part or what. I just find it so hard to make sense of and she hasn’t said why she did it and… well it’s just so utterly upsetting.
That could be what attracted her to the profession in the first place, easy access to vulnerable victims.
 
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I keep thinking about that surviving triplet and the survivors guilt they will no doubt feel when they find out what happened 😔

That could be what attracted her to the profession in the first place, easy access to vulnerable victims.
Absolutely, perpetrators are drawn to professions where they have easy access to victims as demonstrated by the all the pedalo rings that were linked to children’s homes and the church.
 
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The verdict is the verdict but I was totally confused by the information in this trial. It seems she did it as she was on shift, but something has just never sat right with me, I don't know why.
It wasn’t just because she was on shift… please head over and read Tofinos excellent wiki…
 
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I can't find the lucy letby wiki if anybody has a link please?
Pat Brown the criminal profiler has an interesting video up about LL, she believes LL has Munchausen by Proxy.

Yes I find the dicussion about her love life interesting- the media certainly protrayed her to begin with as a party animal with the pictures they chose and now during the trial they've gone down the loner weirdo ruote just because she supposedly didn't have a relationship of significance, or at least one that wasn't mentioned. It just adds to the general nuance in society that relationships are kind of expected and if you don't have one there's something wrong with you! I play in a soccer team and I'm single and even I see the coach playing players more that are in relationships lmao like she trusts them more or they are of more value because they have a partner! It's such an unhealthy mindset to have. Finding a partner is just pure luck. Rant over
I get the sense a lot of people are looking at Lucy Letby through the lens of 1. Their own experience and 2. As if she’s a fully neurotypical individual

I don’t recall much being made about her personal life in the trial or in the media. It didn’t feature as evidence and there was no mitigating circumstances provided as part of a guilty plea sooo no real substantial clues into her as a person.

By my recollection, what reporting was done on her personal life focused on how normal she was, how well liked and sociable she was. The prosecution deliberately painted the married doctor as her boyfriend, despite her calling him her friend. They weren’t trying to portray her as a lonely single woman. They were portraying her as being in a relationship.

The single aspect came up in regards to the notes and scribbles which were the crux of the case against her, as mentioned in the prosecutions opening statement. It was almost (but not quite) an admittance if guilt, and mentioned not getting married and having children. So naturally, her being single/unmarried becomes relevant and important to understanding why she did what she did.

It’s a bit of a reach to suggest she went on a murderous spree purely out of jealousy and I don’t believe, personally, it would be the main or sole reason.

But it’s also worth considering that Lucy Letby displays traits consistent with narcissistic personality disorder. These types of individuals have a very weak sense of self and are prone to vengeful and very jealous/envious personalities. So would a normal woman worried about never getting married and having kids, feel jealous enough of a family to kill a child? Not really. Would a narcissist? Very possibly, especially in light of the attention she received and the control she got to exercise whilst doing so.

I full appreciate there is a lot of stigma around women being unmarried, single or child free. I get it. I was single for most of my 20s myself. But this isn’t about the average, normal woman. It isn’t a commentary on single women.

It’s a commentary that arose out of a very significant piece of evidence in the trial (the judge gave specific permission for this evidence to be made publicly available at the request of reporters).

No one is saying she is weird because she was single. I haven’t read that anywhere, not on tattle, not in the news (personally).

But she is abnormal because she murdered children in her care. She’s not a normal person. You can’t look at her situation and see it in the same light as your average woman who may be very content being single. Because a narcissist is much more prone to feelings of envy, and are more malicious individuals.

In that context her being single, and the potential part it played in her crime, becomes significant. Because it was clearly something that was on her mind at the point she wrote those notes.
 
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I don’t think most people can get their heads around the way that narcissists think and behave as it’s so extreme so to most people it seems unbelievable and people are desperate to understand why. On the news the CPS woman said she had spent years working with criminals involved in complex high end crime and she’d never met anyone as manipulative as Lucy Letby.
 
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I don’t think most people can get their heads around the way that narcissists think and behave as it’s so extreme so to most people it seems unbelievable and people are desperate to understand why. On the news the CPS woman said she had spent years working with criminals involved in complex high end crime and she’d never met anyone as manipulative as Lucy Letby.
My friend sent me an article earlier showing inside Lucy's house saying it was so normal, she couldn't believe it. I think people expect everyone they think is evil to have it shown on the outside and its too scary to think otherwise.
 
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The Ripper letters are generally considered to be fakes. I can't remember if they found out who wrote them.
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One of them 'might' be genuine. One letter was sent to George Luck that contained half a human kidney (which corresponded to the disease of the last victim whose Kidney was removed), but without DNA it could just have been a bunch of medical students on a prank.
 
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I get the sense a lot of people are looking at Lucy Letby through the lens of 1. Their own experience and 2. As if she’s a fully neurotypical individual

I don’t recall much being made about her personal life in the trial or in the media. It didn’t feature as evidence and there was no mitigating circumstances provided as part of a guilty plea sooo no real substantial clues into her as a person.

By my recollection, what reporting was done on her personal life focused on how normal she was, how well liked and sociable she was. The prosecution deliberately painted the married doctor as her boyfriend, despite her calling him her friend. They weren’t trying to portray her as a lonely single woman. They were portraying her as being in a relationship.

The single aspect came up in regards to the notes and scribbles which were the crux of the case against her, as mentioned in the prosecutions opening statement. It was almost (but not quite) an admittance if guilt, and mentioned not getting married and having children. So naturally, her being single/unmarried becomes relevant and important to understanding why she did what she did.

It’s a bit of a reach to suggest she went on a murderous spree purely out of jealousy and I don’t believe, personally, it would be the main or sole reason.

But it’s also worth considering that Lucy Letby displays traits consistent with narcissistic personality disorder. These types of individuals have a very weak sense of self and are prone to vengeful and very jealous/envious personalities. So would a normal woman worried about never getting married and having kids, feel jealous enough of a family to kill a child? Not really. Would a narcissist? Very possibly, especially in light of the attention she received and the control she got to exercise whilst doing so.

I full appreciate there is a lot of stigma around women being unmarried, single or child free. I get it. I was single for most of my 20s myself. But this isn’t about the average, normal woman. It isn’t a commentary on single women.

It’s a commentary that arose out of a very significant piece of evidence in the trial (the judge gave specific permission for this evidence to be made publicly available at the request of reporters).

No one is saying she is weird because she was single. I haven’t read that anywhere, not on tattle, not in the news (personally).

But she is abnormal because she murdered children in her care. She’s not a normal person. You can’t look at her situation and see it in the same light as your average woman who may be very content being single. Because a narcissist is much more prone to feelings of envy, and are more malicious individuals.

In that context her being single, and the potential part it played in her crime, becomes significant. Because it was clearly something that was on her mind at the point she wrote those notes.
I think it is relevant but it seems to me like people are deliberately ignoring that it seems like her actions started a lot earlier to focus on the single aspect. If she did display this behaviour at Liverpool women's as has been implied by the police, then she started this at 21 years old, way before it would even be notable that someone wasn't in a stable relationship and didn't have a child.

She wouldn't have had access to children as vulnerable as she did at COC there, as she hadn't yet got the further quals, so we have no way of knowing whether she escalated to murder in terms of her actions or whether she did the same stuff and it was just more "effective" (god that feels awful to type) once she'd got her further quals and was able to go after the more vulnerable babies - some of which she still had to attack multiple times and didn't "succeed" in every case. We also don't know if she actually intended to murder them or whether she wanted to always be the hero saving them and was willing to inflict pain and harm to be the one there when they came back to life, some of the experts have suggested it was a hero complex and perhaps she just didn't care what the consequences were because either she got to be a hero or she got sympathy and both filled the narcissistic need for her.

I don't think we can say with the information we have whether it was all provoked by her very abnormal brain reacting out of jealousy/annoyance because she wouldn't have a baby or whether the later notes were influenced by the fact she knew what she'd been doing for years, knew the net was closing in and that was why she'd never be able to have a family.
 
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I think it is relevant but it seems to me like people are deliberately ignoring that it seems like her actions started a lot earlier to focus on the single aspect. If she did display this behaviour at Liverpool women's as has been implied by the police, then she started this at 21 years old, way before it would even be notable that someone wasn't in a stable relationship and didn't have a child.

She wouldn't have had access to children as vulnerable as she did at COC there, as she hadn't yet got the further quals, so we have no way of knowing whether she escalated to murder in terms of her actions or whether she did the same stuff and it was just more "effective" (god that feels awful to type) once she'd got her further quals and was able to go after the more vulnerable babies - some of which she still had to attack multiple times and didn't "succeed" in every case. We also don't know if she actually intended to murder them or whether she wanted to always be the hero saving them and was willing to inflict pain and harm to be the one there when they came back to life, some of the experts have suggested it was a hero complex and perhaps she just didn't care what the consequences were because either she got to be a hero or she got sympathy and both filled the narcissistic need for her.

I don't think we can say with the information we have whether it was all provoked by her very abnormal brain reacting out of jealousy/annoyance because she wouldn't have a baby or whether the later notes were influenced by the fact she knew what she'd been doing for years, knew the net was closing in and that was why she'd never be able to have a family.
there isn’t enough information on the note to know anything more than she was distressed about never getting to get married and have children at some point.

you are making the assumption that the point she wrote the note was the only time she felt that way, surely?

she could have had anxieties about it early in her 20s (I come from a troubled background and I’ll be honest, a part of me was always worried I’d never get married and have kids because I incorrectly believe I was “damaged”).

we can’t say she definitely only had those feelings at the exact point she wrote that note. We don’t know why or when they started. All we do know is she had them.

we don’t know if she started offended earlier in her career. I think if there is a case brought against her for that then it’d definitely be worth revisiting and discussing But… you’re working on the assumption that it’s inevitable she offended earlier, and therefore that renders the note largely irrelevant, which I don’t think is a logical leap to make in my opinion.

the note could very easily be the result of years of pent up frustration and suppressed guilt. And I personally don’t think she really ever felt the net closing in. I think she always figured she’d get off. Narcissist never think they’ll be found guilty. Never. They always think they are capable of talking or charming their way out of it, even though that’s not how a court of law works. Letby is a highly calculated and manipulative person, I think her arrogance told her she’d be able to fool the whole justice system. Genuinely. I’ve seen narcissists in action who are so utterly deluded they make notes about how they’ll appeal to the jury and their biases, wholly unaware that that isn’t how the judicial system works.

So I don’t think that note was ever the result of her feeling fear at the net closing in. I think it was the result of the small speck of humanity she has, coming through briefly and erratically, before that aspect of herself was suppressed down again by her malignant narcissicism (that’s just my hypothesis though).
 
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Hopefully he doesn't act like an asshole and hold information.
same :( hope they get some answers for that poor little girl, or at least some information to locate her father.

also, i think it might be time for the LL conversation to go over to the dedicated thread:

 
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same :( hope they get some answers for that poor little girl, or at least some information to locate her father.

also, i think it might be time for the LL conversation to go over to the dedicated thread:

I always read this thread but unfortunatly hardly any of latest crime cases that are reported on here,there are lots of devoted and well know posters that post here about the court cases etc,but last few days it’s been taken over by that vile woman when there is a dedicated thread to vile LL.LaBlonde is correct.

i don’t mean to be nasty but the existing thread should be used.☺
 
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It is obviously frustrating for the public, and likely upsetting to victims, and I can see why it’s in the public interest. But God the way The Sun reports things makes issues that do need to be addressed sound so exaggerated. “p-weirdo teacher” they want to appeal to a certain demographic they know will be up in arms
Not disagreeing with you but the 'p-weirdo' thing is an auto word filter by tattle, not the Sun. They use the unfiltered word. Which I can't say without it being filtered. :D
 
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Not disagreeing with you but the 'p-weirdo' thing is an auto word filter by tattle, not the Sun. They use the unfiltered word. Which I can't say without it being filtered. :D
Yes,obviously some words we cannot use so instead others are used..
 
Oh they meant the original word. I just confused myself. As you were.
 
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