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Baby Giraffe

VIP Member
No, some of the poorest members of society are white. In fact, white people are the only group who are being actively and indiscreetly discriminated against by institutions, as examples in this thread show.
That's not what it means. Nobody is saying that there aren't disadvantaged white people however that's not the thing that's causing the disadvantage, that could be social class, disability, lack of education. I realise you have a blind spot on this though so you're not going to even try and understand a very well studied and accepted phenomenon
 
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Aboveallelse

Well-known member
IMG_20191111_155901.png

This is the alarming message I received when I pointed out kalechis behaviour to a insta mummy advocating her reinstatement on Instagram. It's prejudice not racism....😲 So kalechis behaviour is apparently acceptable.....


MOD edit, moving this to a new topic so people can debate it as most on the thread have said they don't believe the original account the thread was on was racist.
 
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Aboveallelse

Well-known member
Yes it's the statement " racism against white people doesn't exist" that shook me. Of course it can. If a group of people gang up on a person and make reference to their race in order to belittle the. Then I call that racism.
 
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But all I’m trying to stress is you can’t necessarily comment on someone’s feelings/reactions when you’ve never had to experience things from their perspective
I completely agree although I think that in this context some of the defensiveness comes from the fact that if any white person tries to identify or talks about their own experiences of inequality or discrimination then they're told that they can't join in...that it couldn't ever be as bad. I'm uncomfortable with the suffering one upmanship. Yes, white people don't know what it's like to experience being a POC, but neither does an able bodied POC know what it is to live every day as severely disabled for example.
 
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OwlAtTheMoon

Well-known member
You're definitely not alone, PartTimeNoseyWitch - much of this thread makes depressing reading. 🙁 There seems a lack of basic understanding of the enduring consequences of present-day, systemic - as well as historical - racial oppression for non-whites in the UK. 'What about us white people?'they cry, indignantly. Well, spot on with the violins in reply to that. The repetitive posts from a couple of accounts on here are v. reminiscent of the migrants and Sistah Space threads, with the usual suspects digging themselves in.... As I said, depressing but hopefully representative of a small (white, no doubts) minority wanging ragefully into the void... 😩🙁
 
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cedarpeach

Active member
I think they mean the sentiments towards the Jews were something similar.
I get that, but suggesting the white race is facing a genocide similar to the Holocaust requires specific examples. It’s an outrageous thing to sweepingly suggest.
 
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Missyboo25

Chatty Member
She was on the podcast a long time after that one comment, maybe mod changed her opinion?

But what someone personally thinks of someone and talking about a serious topic is a bit different. The podcast is a work environment, but it is a mess as it's also using her personality 🥴
I'm pretty sure we've all worked with people we don't like at some point in out lives? If CB didn't want to be on the podcast I'm sure she'd of declined. She's not backwards in coming forward is she?

Yes you could argue round in circles with this one .
I know I'll get crucified for this, there are many instances of white people experiencing racism. I mean, look at those posts last week about how they don't wash etc. Or does that not count?
 
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Foobar

Member
I know I'll get crucified for this, there are many instances of white people experiencing racism. I mean, look at those posts last week about how they don't wash etc. Or does that not count?
I don’t think one apparently rude woman saying on Instagram white people don’t wash really counts as racism but is definitely prejudiced. Tbh it’s so ridiculously bizarre I couldn’t even be mad at that. Racism is generally now accepted to mean more than that, it’s about the larger systemic, institutionalised problems. White people don’t really suffer those for their race (might do for class and other reasons).
 
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MarmiteExtract

VIP Member
Racism and prejudice are both awful and horrible. It’s not okay to call someone a black bitch, nor a white bitch. However it is true racism is more than just being a dick to someone of a different skin colour to you. There is a power balance and social inequality to racism that as white people we don’t experience, even if someone calls us a derogatory name based on our skin colour.
Oh absolutely. It's not black and white (so to speak!). I do, though, think that a blanket statement like "there's no such thing as racism towards white people" is damaging.

Gosh, who knew Alice's chat would spark such in depth discussions...
 
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Foobar

Member
This is the problem though, right? POC can say whatever they like about white people because we are all racists pieces of shit and racism against white people isn't a real thing. They are permitted to generalize about white people and say nasty ass shit, but as soon as a white persons says that someone is being aggressive, even when are actually are being aggressive, it's racist. Surely, the way to change the world isn't to start by shitting all over it. If you want to engage with white people and ask them to be advocates you don't start out by insulting everything about them. There are boatloads of white people going to bat every fucking day for POC because they truly care about changing the world around them. But they're not on their instagram soapbox shouting about it so we're all pieces of shit white trash. Fuck right off. Advocates don't shout about their advocacy, they just plug along trying to make a difference. All of these instahuns, regardless of color, are just in this for the likes/ego and the cash/freebies. They give no shits about the world around them, Bandwagon mentatlity.
But you’re generalising here again. A couple of POC have said some things you don’t like and now this vitriolic response saying they ALL can do this and think ALL White people are racist pieces of shit??
 
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Baby Giraffe

VIP Member
Gloria, you have such phenomenal persistence of your agenda. However it seems clear, by how often you've mentioned it, that it stems in considerable part from soreness at a Black person succeeding at a job you applied for. It's incredibly tough going when you're aplying for promotions/jobs, we've all been there yes, it stinks when you don't get the job. But rather than fixating on the skin colour of the successful job applicant, could you find a way to turn the experience around? It was either that the person was considered absolutely the best for the job, or the company was in a programme of positive discrimination, in which case the candidate would still have had to be at least as competent as the best non-Black candidate, and selected to positively discriminate. If you still feel sore about it, try thinking of it this way: that you have likely experienced a microcosm of what discrimination as a Black person feels like in every other possible way imaginable - societally, economically, health outcomes-wise, educationally, culturally, politically, and so on.
Gloria is incapable of seeing things from any other point of view than the rather narrow outlook that supports their bias. Because she has had a negative experience she seems to be fixated and thinks that this equates to systemic racism and is therefore unable to understand simple facts which is presumably why she just posted a laughing emoji to your post rather than trying to understand the huge volume of evidence that shows the contrary.
 
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FannyPannyBananny

New member
Ok so there’s two different things here. I agree that the ‘instahuns’ can come across fairly disingenuous in their concern for racial issues. But your previous comment felt like you were mad at POC in general and implying they’re hindering the effort on working together to break down the systemic racism in society because they said a couple of rude, prejudiced things. If you meant a specific person just say that.
I do apologize because that certainly wasn't my point at all and I can see how that would come across as I didn't qualify whom I was talking about (and I was a bit ranty/bitchy). I just assumed because in the thread we were discussing Kelechi and CB, that people would know who I was speaking about. I do often find that Kelechi specifically makes it hard to have a conversation about how we can change systemic racism because she is throwing insults at white people, claiming they are dirty, don't season their food, should suck their mum with a straw, etc. etc. etc. I know she does go out into the world and fights against racism and I admire her for her advocacy, so I don't mean that aspect. It's this let's encourage violence against a woman who gossiped on a website thing that is unacceptable, report Clemmie to the midwifery board, but don't tell your tens of thousands of followers that she deserves to have her teeth punched out because she called someone aggressive. She constantly crosses the line in that way when she goes off on these tangents. I have come across this sort of white people are evil mentality on instagram and twitter where it's like how can we move forward if that is where we are starting? You smell, so fuck off, you can't have a seat at the table. If white people are perpetuating racism, which obvs they are, how do you get them to stop? By insulting them from the jump? This is a massively complex issue so it's tough to sit on tattle and be like, yooo let's fix racism, yeah? Fighting racism and stereotypes is something that is really important to me and this faux concern for Black Women and their healthcare has grinded my gears something fierce. No one gave a shit about these stats when they came out, save a handful of people. There's a concerted effort to change how healthcare is provided to POC and it's not by posting stats on insta, it's getting into hospitals and providing the necessary training and oversight to those providing healthcare to POC. It's bringing more POC into the healthcare professions and hospital admin positions. It's not shouting about white people being dirty and claiming one midwife is destroying the whole of civilization and wants to kill Black Women and their babies. This is a situation in which it is a teachable moment. Clemmie made a remark that has racist undertones, I don't think it's because she is racist (but hey maybe she is, I don't know her), I think it's because she is incredibly ignorant. This happens A LOT with white people. There are a lot of white people who are NOT racist but say things that are unbelievably ignorant. Because racism is so ingrained in our society, there is a lot of ignorance that occurs from people who truly are not racist but make statements that have undertones of racism because that is what they grow up hearing, seeing, and learning in their sheltered white world. It's easier to just call someone a racist and be done with it than to examine the nuance with which racism is allowed to continue because of ignorant statements based on racist stereotypes than to have a conversation about how to stop this shit and change people's way of communicating (i.e. getting them to stop using racist language that they may not always realize is racist). If you're a white person living in the UK or USA, there is a good chance that you have very limited interaction with POC, especially if you do not live in or near to a city. There is also a really good chance that you have been bombarded with tiny bits of racism your whole life therefore you will likely step in shit and say the wrong things many times throughout your life, not because you are deeply racist but because of what I stated above, you live in a society where racism is part of the fabric of the nation and it's tough not to step in it now and again. This is why it is so important to have proper conversations about racism and the nuance of language. I do worry that we're taking a good midwife out of the system because she made an ignorant remark in a time of stress and unhappiness, I'm not defending her per se, but I don't think she deserves to be completely destroyed. I think she could have learned from this and then be brought into the conversation in way that could help combat racism. Just destroying people's lives instead of taking these instances and using them to improve quality of care seems awfully foolish. I don't know. It's hard, maybe Clemmie deserves to have her pin taken away, but maybe, just maybe, she's a good midwife who has made a terrible mistake. She could still be someone who turns it around and has a positive impact of women's quality of care, but who knows. Prob not. It's just sad because in this car crash there is a lot to be learned and a lot that could be done to help POC and to change the stats around mother and infant mortality. Can you imagine if someone like Clemmie, who has a massive reach on social media, sat down with Kelechi and Candice (who also have massive social media influence) and they had a proper conversation about what happened and why and what could be done to change the world in which Black Women are almost never listened to when they are unwell and therefore receive inadequate care. I mean, that is world I want to live in, a world in which we stop shouting at each other and sit down and say shit, I fucked up, help me to understand your world, your perspective, your experience, and let's see what we can do together to change things, to make the healthcare professionals more likely to listen to POC. When all you do is yell and work to destroy people who have made mistakes, you're never going to get where you want to go. It makes the divide wider and wider. I'm probably being utterly silly to think these three woman could in fact band together and create positive change.
 
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faceface

Active member
That’s a bit aggressive :D but in all seriousness you can say what you want, but just don’t be surprised if people might take it the wrong way.
Nothing agresive about it, just factual. If I were to behave in an agressive way I would find it normal if people called me that.
 
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Missyboo25

Chatty Member
I can’t believe we’re back to the ‘it wasn’t racist’ again. Even if the rest of what people are saying about how MOD might feel is conjecture, a white woman saying a black woman always brings it ‘back to race’ as if it’s a choice she gets to make about her life experience as a black woman is racist. MOD would have no idea what it’s like to be a POC so she can’t say something to trivialise someone’s experiences and imply the person is exaggerating what they feel.
She wasn't trivialising anything. 🙄she said that CB was aggressive and brought it back to race when she was called on it, in my opinion she didnt say she did it because of her race, she did it because of her personality. How is it racist of it's true? Like I said before, are we supposed to be afraid to call out rude, obnoxious, aggressive behaviour because someone has a different skin colour to us, in fear of being called racist. You can dislike someone for their personality and not what they look like.

Edited because I can't concentrate on two things at once lol
 
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Foobar

Member
I don’t recall white people not washing being a common saying that affects white people’s lives


That you know of. Mainly because if they mentioned it they'd be shot down and it trivialised.
Oh come on. Racism affects people getting jobs, education, maternal outcomes, police treatment to name but a few things. How on earth is this the same?? When has what this bizarre woman said ever been something that actually is that far reaching??
 
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Gloria Rostron

VIP Member


I have said it before and I will say it again, Sadiq Khan is a vile, racist bigot. The way he speaks about white people is offensive. If someone spoke about his ethnicity, there would be outrage. In fact, said person would lose their job. Why is this man still chairman of London, a brilliant city that he has failed as mayor? He is utter scum and should be removed from the council office. Slimeball.
 
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Baby Giraffe

VIP Member
Rishi Sunak lives in Harrogate, a prodominantly white area and he has an array of priveleges that his neighbours won't have.
Again, white privilege doesn’t mean that all white people in the UK have an overall greater privilege than all people of colour. Nobody is saying that, it’s cumulative, for example I win by being middle class and white but lose by being a woman. Rishi has the status and advantages of wealth and position which will obviously count for a lot but he will still be judged (often subconsciously) for his skin colour even though the impact will probably be greatly cushioned by his other privileges. It’s really very simple to understand.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but when people say racism against white people doesn't exist, they back that up with there not being any institutional/systemic racism against white people. But isn't that just a type of racism? Racism definition: ''prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.'' Black people sure as hell can believe they are better than white people, and the definition doesn't mention systems or institutions.

Also, white people may benefit most in some western counties but not in other non-western countries. Do these people still argue racism against white people doesn't exist in these countries where white people don't hold the power? I'm genuinely curious here, not trying to start any fights.
I think this is why it's such a complex issue and it isn't right to accuse people of racism unless it's absolutely clear they are being racist. Let me just qualify this by saying that I know that some POC do suffer the most appaling racism and that it it should be condemned absolutely.

With regards to white privilege, however is that I think the term is very unhelpful. As far as I understand, it refers to the very particular (and definitely very real) day to day experience of being perceived as 'different.' I so wish that there were a better way to refer to this issue because it's a very divisive term and I can see why people rail against it. It's easy to interpret is as being that all white people have privilege that all black people do not, which of course isn't true. It must be very frustrating to feel as though you're being lectured by journalists, celebs, instagrammers etc as to your privilege when you're a worker in a pub in a seaside town, or some other terribly deprived area

I also see it as being very reductive because it presumes, as I said in the other thread, that all white people are a homogeneous group and the same of non white people. Some of the worst racism I've been witness to has been between black and Asian people. Who is more privileged there? Is there not an imbalance if a wealthy black person is racist about eastern European migrants?

Also, what about the daily struggles of those who are disabled, or gay. When I was a student and got into activism, identity politics was seen as a really bad thing, because we need to work together if we're going to make improvements for everyone.

I do think that people are trying to be better, on the whole. That's why I hate this cancel culture. I don't doubt that MOD is a bit of a knob but I'm certain she isn't a racist.
 
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