Racism Discussions

[OneLineResponse]

But what’s being said here repeatedly is exactly what MOD said. That POC use their race as a weapon so you can’t say anything.

I didn't think MOD said POC, she said CB (rightly or wrongly) it wasn't to all POC/WOC. MOD has been misquoted.

 

[FannyPannyBananny]

But you’re generalising here again. A couple of POC have said some things you don’t like and now this vitriolic response saying they ALL can do this and think ALL White people are racist pieces of shit??

But you’re generalising here again. A couple of POC have said some things you don’t like and now this vitriolic response saying they ALL can do this and think ALL White people are racist pieces of shit??

Naw, mate, I did not say ALL POC. Because not all POC behave like Kelechi does. Just like not ALL white people are racist. There is ingrained racism in society, but that doesn't mean ALL white people behave in a racist way or subscribe to racist beliefs because society as a whole is racist. There are A LOT of white people who advocate and are making real changes in the world not shouting on their instagram platform that things need to change and doing fuck all to change them - and by this I mean the whole bandwagon let's take down MOD because she called CB agressive crap. I'm not being vitriolic in my statement, I am talking about one specific person who time and time again generalizes about white people when the reality is there are a lot of good white people out in the world doing real work to fight racism as opposed to shouting about it on instagram. There's been a proper bandwagon mentality on Insta since this car crash started where all of a sudden everyone "cares" about the statistics around black healthcare, which is nothing but bullshit, they do not care one bit. None of these women gave a rat's ass about how black women are constantly ignored by healthcare professionals both in maternity care and in general health care. And now all of sudden everyone is posting these stats because MOD said CB was aggressive. Fuck off. They'll all go back to their lives of posting #AD and not do a goddanmed thing to have a real and lasting impact on the lives of Black Women. Just because they invite CB to their Jo Malone event doesn't change anything.

 

[Missyboo25]

My view is that a lot of “racism” actually doesn’t stem from discrimination based on skin colour. Rather from different cultural nuances of behaviour. The problem is that often white people hold the positions of power, so their accepted methods of “the way to behave” is held as the standard and any deviation from that is considered less than.

Interesting example. I really don’t consider myself to be racist. I work in property. I had a house available to let in London and people were fighting me for this house. It was really reasonably priced and so there was a huge demand for it.

One of the applicants for this house rang me prior to viewing it several times. She was SO RUDE on the phone. She was “aggressive” (oh dear can of worms), demanding, and pushy. I thought (in advance of the property viewing) “no way am I giving it to her, she’ll be a horrible demanding tenant”.

My business partner (and actual partner lol) was the one who carried out the viewings. He is Jamaican. He came back from a day of showing this house to tell me about all the applicants and said “I want us to give it to that woman. Hear me out. She’s our tenant”. I thought “shut your face” . He said that he too had found her really rude at first, but that she had this adorable daughter and was the most doting and adorable parent and lovely person. When he got to speaking to her he realised she was Nigerian; Yoruba Nigerian (I actually now have a really close Yoruba Nigerian male friend now who could give you all the knowledge). He explained that this lady was really nervous about finding a home for her and her daughter and that she’d been continually rejected (big surprise) by other landlords [I could have told her why - she would have said it was “racism” - which it was but not for the reasons she believed] and her apparent rudeness was nerves and this was culturally how Yoruba Nigerians expressed themselves when stressed (I know I sound like a white “Becky” in this explanation but I’m typing and it’s quite hard to put across in a message forum).

Long story short, I listened to my partner and gave in. She is the most beautiful tenant. I was interpreting her nerves as rudeness.

My point is, white people often get called racist when they receive behaviour as “unacceptable” by their standards. And POC call out white people as being racist for not understanding what they are trying to communicate.

I love a black man. Like he is me. I am ashamed to say racism matters more to me since I am in a relationship with a POC because it feels like all of a sudden I (my guy) is the target of offence. And yet I would have still dismissed this person as being rude (she was by “English” standards).

Racism is so real. I’m blonde and have never struggled. Being with a black man I’ve been trailed by the police, tutted at by old men on trains being next to him and watch the shift in how the world views me being beside him once my “access all areas pass” has been taken away.

I think CB IS aggressive. Listen to her podcast lol. She is! But I also think she’s experienced racism. I don’t think we have enough info based on what MOD typed to decide if she is racist or right or both. Everything is grey! Everything needs balance.

This is such a good explanation. Much much better than I could have done. I just end up getting frustrated. I've got mixed race children and I've had some bloody horrible stuff said to me about being white and having a black ex. Funnily enough since moving to Wales they don't see the kids skin colour but I only get a lot of shit about being English now.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

No, some of the poorest members of society are white. In fact, white people are the only group who are being actively and indiscreetly discriminated against by institutions, as examples in this thread show.

Gloria, you have such phenomenal persistence of your agenda. However it seems clear, by how often you've mentioned it, that it stems in considerable part from soreness at a Black person succeeding at a job you applied for. It's incredibly tough going when you're aplying for promotions/jobs, we've all been there yes, it stinks when you don't get the job. But rather than fixating on the skin colour of the successful job applicant, could you find a way to turn the experience around? It was either that the person was considered absolutely the best for the job, or the company was in a programme of positive discrimination, in which case the candidate would still have had to be at least as competent as the best non-Black candidate, and selected to positively discriminate. If you still feel sore about it, try thinking of it this way: that you have likely experienced a microcosm of what discrimination as a Black person feels like in every other possible way imaginable - societally, economically, health outcomes-wise, educationally, culturally, politically, and so on.

 

[Grace Kelly]

I follow Sadiq Khan very closely on social media as I’m impacted by the cash grab that is ULEZ - there’s endless footage everywhere of Sadiq Khan being racist and misogynist. He is an extremely rude and arrogant man, in fact I wish he had a thread on here.

 

[littlepup]

This is the report https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/2432799
It suggests the school should…. Extend pupils’ understanding of the cultural diversity of modern British society by creating opportunities for them to have first-hand interaction with their counterparts from different backgrounds beyond the immediate locality.

My primary was all white, high school had 1 mixed heritage black and 3 Chinese students. They were outstanding and good respectively.
We still learned about Diwali, Hahukkah, Eid, Chinese new year and so on, had speakers in, school trips. That’s all it seems to be suggesting.

 

[greenvelvet]

View attachment 2098967

I can’t find anything confirming this is what happened. The only thing I can find is a BBC article that says this:

Last week, there was high-profile coverage when a school in Lincolnshire, with few ethnic minority pupils, was not found to be outstanding because pupils lacked "first-hand experience of the diverse make-up of modern British society".

This was reported as a school being criticised as "too white".

Ofsted rejects claims schools downgraded as 'too white'

Ofsted chief Sir Michael Wilshaw has said it is "nonsense" to claim that schools would be criticised by inspectors for being "too white".

www.bbc.com

There is a Telegraph article that discusses it which I suspect is what inspired this meme. It says in the opening lines, “downgrading a top rural primary school for effectively being too English....” “effectively” meaning that actually, Ofsted did not say this and it’s just what the journalist interpreted their recommendation to mean. It’s an astoundingly stupid interpretation IMO.

You can probably find the original Ofsted report and I guarantee you it does not say “this school is too white” anywhere inside it.

 

[Mr_Maccers]

I think it’s becoming apparent that we are no longer able to call out anything anymore . If it involves a marginalised group of people it’s best to avoid saying anything on the public domain . I’d love to elaborate more but it turns into a shit show . MOD has learned the hard way .

Yup, always been pretty much a one way street that one. Avoid at all costs.

 

[Cannotlookaway]

Saying a black person is “weaponising their race” because they share their experience of life as a black person, is racist. Fact.

 

[Foobar]

I think this is why it's such a complex issue and it isn't right to accuse people of racism unless it's absolutely clear they are being racist. Let me just qualify this by saying that I know that some POC do suffer the most appaling racism and that it it should be condemned absolutely.

With regards to white privilege, however is that I think the term is very unhelpful. As far as I understand, it refers to the very particular (and definitely very real) day to day experience of being perceived as 'different.' I so wish that there were a better way to refer to this issue because it's a very divisive term and I can see why people rail against it. It's easy to interpret is as being that all white people have privilege that all black people do not, which of course isn't true. It must be very frustrating to feel as though you're being lectured by journalists, celebs, instagrammers etc as to your privilege when you're a worker in a pub in a seaside town, or some other terribly deprived area

I also see it as being very reductive because it presumes, as I said in the other thread, that all white people are a homogeneous group and the same of non white people. Some of the worst racism I've been witness to has been between black and Asian people. Who is more privileged there? Is there not an imbalance if a wealthy black person is racist about eastern European migrants?

Also, what about the daily struggles of those who are disabled, or gay. When I was a student and got into activism, identity politics was seen as a really bad thing, because we need to work together if we're going to make improvements for everyone.

I do think that people are trying to be better, on the whole. That's why I hate this cancel culture. I don't doubt that MOD is a bit of a knob but I'm certain she isn't a racist.

The concept of privilege I think is actually useful because it carries the idea you have it, but you haven’t necessarily done anything to do that, you’re born with it and will benefit from it whether you’re conscious of it or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when people say racism against white people doesn't exist, they back that up with there not being any institutional/systemic racism against white people. But isn't that just a type of racism? Racism definition: ''prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.'' Black people sure as hell can believe they are better than white people, and the definition doesn't mention systems or institutions.

Also, white people may benefit most in some western counties but not in other non-western countries. Do these people still argue racism against white people doesn't exist in these countries where white people don't hold the power? I'm genuinely curious here, not trying to start any fights.

This is because racism generally is agreed to include the broader society/institutional elements that impact POC across their lives, rather than someone making nasty prejudged comments.
I think when you look at it most of the most powerful countries are run by white people?

 

[PartTimeNoseyWitch]

I am white, my partner is Black. A member of my family is also mixed race which taught me about racism growing up. I am definitely more radical in my approach to racism than I suspect other white people are BUT I can also see little things which I think are unfair towards white people in SOME scenarios. I don’t think we can ever generalise firstly, when it comes to racism or what someone constitutes as racist necessarily because if you have enough conversations you will learn that what is offensive to some isn’t to others but obviously loud and overt racism is very clear to see.

I dislike some of the conversations which stem from America as they are often a totally separate scenario to us in the UK, of course racism exists in the UK but it’s different and our laws, social policies etc. are different too. Less diverse places will witness more racism. If anyone saw the story which broke a couple of days ago about Eleanor Williams, she was jailed for lying about a group of Asian men r***ing her and after she shared her story about it on Facebook, Barrow (a small place in Cumbria), there were over 150 hate crimes recorded, Indian restaurants boycotted, windows smashed etc. A lot of people have said it is her fault, I mean she certainly stirred the pot, but the fact is a lot of racists were just looking for an excuse to justify their overtly racist behaviour.

A lot of white people are subconsciously racist in certain aspects and this doesn’t necessarily mean they are a bad person as long as they aren’t offensive with it, but it just means they have to unlearn what they have been taught by society, the media etc. For example - the mean Black girl stereotype. Only individuals know whether they stereotype people based on race and it’s something that is an ongoing process. I know some of my Black female friends also subconsciously stereotype white women but this is based on experiences or for protection rather than racial basis built on racism if that makes sense. My partner often gets things like someone asking him if he likes certain rap artists (stereotyping because he is Black) but actually he likes “white people music” more than most white people , things like this become tiring to deal with on a daily basis because sometimes there’s the urge to say “why just because I’m Black” but knowing this could potentially cause an issue it means he has to constantly be the bigger person. There’s so many of these I could talk all day!

The only other thing I want to add which is following on from the post about the £5k bursary for teaching candidates who aren’t white. I think this is a good thing. If there is little diversity amongst teachers this could have a negative impact on students who aren’t white, I know if me and my partner decide to have children diversity will be a factor in my decision for schools, playgroups etc. I just think a lot of people forget how easy it is for us to be white in this country, yes there may be a very rare situation where we’re called something or have a joke made about us which I don’t agree with, but we don’t have to deal with it constantly. A lot of us also have the privilege of generational wealth, I don’t mean we’re minted but for example, my parents and grandparents and their parents were able to buy their own homes and that wealth will be passed along but many Black people were unable to access mortgages when they first came here (mainly Windrush generation) because of racist lenders so this same wealth has not been passed on for the next generations which is unfair and I do think reparations should be paid for this but it would be quite difficult to prove. Of course not every white person is in this situation but please look further into the inequality of ownership and the statistics before centring yourself in a wobble about it.

 

[jewelkitty]

Yeah I do think classism is often overlooked for racism. Often where people see racism, it's actually classism. I saw a horrible tweet by a black man recently saying he would never give money to a white homeless person and was laughing/saying the white person deserved to be homeless if they couldn't make use of their ''privilege''. So many other factors come into class, not just race. And poverty amongst white people is often jeered at (''white trash'' etc).

What annoys me most is the level of hypocrisy in these race discussions. People will lose their mind over someone saying ''they (black people)'' do so-and-so (and of course I agree you should never generalise) but it's perfectly okay to make generalisations about white people, you see them ALL the time - including white people smell lol.

As you said, other races can be just as racist as anyone, but they get no shit for it, all the blame just falls on white people. I saw a Youtube video the other day of someone reacting to a horribly racist Asian commercial, depicting black men in a horrible way, but of course all the comments were just about how scummy white people are - and coincidentally, about how they all stink. White people don't hold the power in Asia or the Middle East so I really don't understand this.

I totally agree that we should all be working together.

 

[Foobar]

I'm just saying that because you haven't seen it or experienced it, you can't say that it hasn't happened. I mean obviously it happens less than other races, but you can't say for definite that it hasn't or doesn't happen.

I’m not saying instances of prejudice against white people don't happen. They just don’t have the widespread impact that the years and years of systemic racism has. That’s what I mean.

 

[IngressUK]

I have said it before and I will say it again, Sadiq Khan is a vile, racist bigot. The way he speaks about white people is offensive. If someone spoke about his ethnicity, there would be outrage. In fact, said person would lose their job. Why is this man still chairman of London, a brilliant city that he has failed as mayor? He is utter scum and should be removed from the council office. Slimeball.

Sadiq Khan is vile.

I know someone who works for TfL and comes into contact with him at times.

Basically it has been said that.

- He is a bully.
- Speaks to people in a condescending manner.
- Bangs his fists on the desk when he doesn't like hearing things he doesn't want to hear.
- Doesn't take NO for an answer.
- Ignores other people's ideas and opinions he doesn't like.
- Shouts and screams at people behind closed doors.
- Allegations of corruption- siphoning off public money into his own pockets.

Not a particularly pleasant person, and certainly not one who is fit to run London.

Considering his attitude to ULEZ and ramming it through by ignoring the large opposition and public consultation- ties up with what many points have been said in the bullet list above.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

Saying as the SS thread has closed I saw this and thought it was a very passive aggressive post for something that was supposedly a misunderstanding and resolved by both parties View attachment 1864693

I think she meant 2022


Well @Gloria Rostron we don’t choose what skin colour we’re born into , it’s just a fact of life.
I don’t see why we have to apologise or feel the wrath of something out of our control.

That is a very emotive post that SS/Ngozi Fulani has posted. I don't see how she can imply misogny, as Lady H is a woman, most of the women online are women, most of us here are women and her gender has never been mentioned before this post.

With regards to racism, even if there had been malicious intent from Lady H, she seemed to accept the apology. More than that, she agreed that there was no malicious intent in Lady H's questioning.


I do feel that racial equality and multi-race living is sliding backwards. The arguments I see are no longer about tackling un-equal and biased treatment and opressive behaviour. I am starting to see that there is a strong will to divide white and black people. There seems to be a desire to create two seperate teams. Battling against each other would be bad for both races. It seems only a handful of years ago, we were living in happiness all together. White people had voices. Black people had voices. We had Jeremy Kyle, Matthew Wright, Lenny Henry, Trisha Goddard, all giving their voices and their was little to none conflict. I am seeing more and more anti white hatred and, as a white woman, it angers me, it angers me especially when people tell me my feelings about the racism I experience are invalid because I am white. I hear the BBC Breakfast show celebrating films where there are no white cast members. This, to me, is blatant racism. If it was the other way around, there would be outrage, and rightly so. We need to be outraged about all forms of racism. Diane Abbott has posted racist content about white people and also made offensive remarks about Jewish people. Why is she not facing the professional scrutiny that Lady H faced?

 

[Baby Giraffe]

You are exactly who I would unfriend on Facebook if I hadn’t already deleted it because of crap like this being shared

I know, these made up memes get posted all the time and people keep nodding away ridiculously as it fits their views

 

[Thechubbymoaner]

I don't know if this is the place for this or what but it's the closest place maybe to discuss this. So, this incident happened years ago, a chap who worked where I did, he's not of British descent but born and bred in the UK. Anyway, at a Christmas do a we spent the evening chatting and getting on really well, having a laugh and at one point he's grabbed me and tried to kiss me. I said no sorry I'm not interested I am in a long term relationship and with that he's said no it's not, it's because you are a racist. I was shocked but he was adamant that me turning away his advances was because I'm racist not because I had a boyfriend. Anyway, he left but stayed friends with a few people and I heard he told some colleagues of mine to stay away from me as I'm racist. It came to light one evening when me and the girls from work were having a few drinks at mine that he tried it with them and when they said no he started calling them racists (This guy clearly is a dickhead). Anyway, all along it pans out he was seeing another colleague on the quiet who is of the same heritage as him and they have since married. We have recently found out he's got a job back with us and is returning and we are so upset. He's clearly not a nice person and we feel he's so out of line to call 3 women racist for rejecting his advances. It's also sickening that he's using such a vile thing to accuse us of, he's making a mockery of it. We feel we can't say anything in work as it was years ago and also his wife is lovely and it would break her heart but he's done it before he will do it again and in light of what's happened recently it worries me that a girl will get with him as to not be accused of such a thing. What to do eh?

 

[SisterBliss]

Reading this thread with interest! One thing I did notice is that it is the privileged white liberal social justice warriors who have created the bulk of this confusion. These are university students from prosperous (overwhelmingly white) households, being fed a steady diet of identity politics and Oppression Olympics narratives, where oppression is almost fetishised and white guilt is assuaged by getting them to scream angrily at their elders. They don’t work, don’t have kids or families, they live in a holier than thou bubble and worst of all they speak for people of colour, gays and lesbians, exploited Third World women etc. instead of elevating the voices of the oppressed and supporting them with concrete measures. They indulge themselves in quizzes that ‘score” their privilege and oppression (obviously the dullest white kids with purple hair and unicorn genders tend to score as most highly oppressed). All the while, people of colour, the poor, victims of DV etc are nowhere to be seen because they’re too busy trying to survive and help each other out. Many white people help too, incidentally they never feel a need to promote themselves on social media. In this ridiculous call out culture naturally some people of colour take advantage of these “oppressed person can do no wrong” beliefs in order to justify never apologising for their mistakes or bad behaviour. A number of times I saw black women calling out such a person, only to be themselves accused of racism and prejudice by mostly white kids, which is beyond ridiculous. So what I’m trying to say is, the privileged have created a naval-gazing, self-congratulatory psychodrama around the issue of racism and privilege, in order to justify maintaining the status quo. And the loudest among them will discard their piercings, dye their hair their natural colour, buy a house in Hampshire and vote Tory by the time they are 30 thus making things worse for people of colour for yet another generation.

 

[Missyboo25]

I don’t think one apparently rude woman saying on Instagram white people don’t wash really counts as racism but is definitely prejudiced. Tbh it’s so ridiculously bizarre I couldn’t even be mad at that. Racism is generally now accepted to mean more than that, it’s about the larger systemic, institutionalised problems. White people don’t really suffer those for their race (might do for class and other reasons).

It seems that in the case of CH comment about CB she will always be called a racist for describing someone's personality but it's fine for a p.o.c colour to insult or make fun of a whole group of people for having white skin?

And yes, I know p.o.c have it a million times worse than white people. That I wont deny, But it can't be one rule for one and not for another. That's not what equality is.

 

[MissH0907]

This is the problem though, right? POC can say whatever they like about white people because we are all racists pieces of shit and racism against white people isn't a real thing. They are permitted to generalize about white people and say nasty ass shit, but as soon as a white persons says that someone is being aggressive, even when are actually are being aggressive, it's racist. Surely, the way to change the world isn't to start by shitting all over it. If you want to engage with white people and ask them to be advocates you don't start out by insulting everything about them. There are boatloads of white people going to bat every fucking day for POC because they truly care about changing the world around them. But they're not on their instagram soapbox shouting about it so we're all pieces of shit white trash. Fuck right off. Advocates don't shout about their advocacy, they just plug along trying to make a difference. All of these instahuns, regardless of color, are just in this for the likes/ego and the cash/freebies. They give no shits about the world around them, Bandwagon mentatlity.

Have you not just generalised in this comment when referring to POC as if they all do what you’ve said above? There are pieces of shit in all walks of life.