Pulled elbow is quite a common injury (where there’s a dislocation) and it’s usually when a toddler is swung or pulled by the hands. My son got it when his brother rived him out of his playpen by his hands. It was a simple dislocation at the elbow and was popped back in when he was examined. The doctor was a bit skepical and took pains to remind me swinging them by their arms isn’t a good idea. When a piece of bone shears off it’s usually a place where a bone attaches to a joint and the joint is stressed to the point of pulling off a piece of bone. I would imagine by rough handling or deliberately/accidentally twisting an arm could do it. The fact Preston was a looked after child, and with inexperienced carers should have warranted further scrutiny of an injury of this nature.And this was a nurse - can anyone tell me if this truly is a common injury as I rarely hear of it happening. Don’t see many 13 month old in arm casts either but maybe that’s just me
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I don’t have children myself but the way he’s described how that injury with his arm may have happened and how he was holding his hands whilst putting him in the cot, I just couldn’t imagine just using a babies hands to put them down? You’d hold them under their armpits or you’d be cradling them and lay them down that way right? I just wouldn’t feel that the baby was supported by just holding their hands and I would worry I was going to cause harm if I did that.
Yeah, it’s a very odd way to handle a baby. You’d only do that if you held them in utter contempt
Unfortunately paedos don't tend to get targeted in prison because they are paedos, it's usually for some other reason and it's just coincidence. Watkins was allegedly for a drug debt, Huntley because he was known to be a head
And I’ve just read this part which I haven’t seen before:Even just this is so saddening to methe image of that poor lady crying all day wondering should she have said or done something differently. Desperately wanting the chance to gently hand over the baby she had raised through all the hard young baby times
God love her, I hope she's doing OK
How on earth this type of spitefulness didn’t raise alarm bells I don’t know. I am honestly so concerned by the sheer amount of bloody professionals who were blinded by these two or did see the warning signs but chose not to act on them.
Of course they are. They are at the bottom of the prison hierarchy. That's why they are deemed vulnerable and usually segregated. This is well known.
A couple of high profile ones being killed for other reasons doesn't disprove that.
Anyway, my original point was that Varley's weakenss will be like catnip to violent, frustrated men in prison.
I can imagine them saying the foster carer is being pushy and not letting them form their relationship with Preston as an excuse for not seeing them. Given how fawning the professionals have been of them the SW probably would have accepted that without question and dismissed the FC concerns.
Aside from being a vile sexual deviant, JV sounds like a spoilt brat who would have a hissy fit if he couldn't get his own way / struggling to cope. And when the mask slipped, I feel poor Preston took the brunt of this catastrophicly
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Especially the prison population who were themselves sexually harmed by adults when they were children. I think raping a baby to death will be abhorrent to most prisoners. When they are sentanced, they won’t be in the cozy c wing. They’ll be with the other lifers who have taken another’s life previously
Don't get me wrong they are very much disliked but they aren't as in danger as people think they are due to the segregation you mention but also they are often in prisons where they are with inmates with similar convictions. Hence they don't tend to be killed for being paedos unless for some reason the gen pop are able to get hold of them
It puts a whole new irony on the social worker saying it was bringing people together who never would have ordinarily met
that lady who seems to have dedicated her life to minding babies never deserved to cross paths with those two demonic creatures before we even mention poor Preston. God there's no punishment that'd be enough for them in my eyesYes I think it was a combination of the assumption of them being two men and therefore a little bit useless with kids and perhaps a sense of the social worker losing her professionalism around gay men as someone else mentioned straight women are more relaxed around gay men as they are not a threat to them, hence the love hearts. In what is no doubt a stressful job maybe she found relief in them in some kind of way. I highly doubt she would be sending love hearts to a lesbian couple or a straight couple.I’ve just binge read this thread and one thing that I noticed is that people who come into contact with Jamie and John seem sort of weirdly, I don’t know, like in awe of them? They’re constantly being coddled by health/social care professionals: thetext, the wide eyed ‘bringing together people who would never normally meet’ thing as if they were celebrities or Nobel prize winners and the foster parents should be honoured to meet them, nurses dropping everything to pet their little heads instead of working on Preston, the welfare check on Jamie by his coworkers when it was Preston who was suffering. It’s like everyone thinks they’re so special and interesting when they’re just a large inbred looking teacher and his drippy wet wipe salesman husband living in Blackpool.
I just hope there are serious learnings here in terms of our presumptions of people and professionalism at work. It sure sounds like so many people were fooled by JV . Unfortunately in this kind of job maybe one does have to assume the worst in order to safeguard kids better
Ah I see what you mean x
I’m replying to myself because I didn’t mention that my son was in a lot of distress. He was grey in the face and couldn’t use the arm. We set off for hospital about 10 minutes after it happened. I’m sure I read that they didn’t take Preston to hospital until the next morning. That should also have been a red flag, that he was left in pain all night. They always ask what time an injury happened (as a mother of boys I’ve had a fair few trips to A&E once they were old enough to climb).
Thanks to stalwart Tattlers for commenting on this case - I'm not going to follow it live in news media because I don't know what hellish detail will come up next but I feel safer reading sensible Tattlers' research and comments.
I wouldn't follow this grim tit at all except I'm beyond angry that this 'senior teacher' could get his hands on a baby to do whatever he wanted with over an extended period of time - and I want to see these two (and any other incompetent others) answer for what's been done.
I wouldn't follow this grim tit at all except I'm beyond angry that this 'senior teacher' could get his hands on a baby to do whatever he wanted with over an extended period of time - and I want to see these two (and any other incompetent others) answer for what's been done.
Same. I'm very grateful for the posters who are hiding the details under spoilers, because what I have read already has had me absolutely sobbing.
He sounds like he has real anger issues. The texts saying “duck off” and the shouting at JMF in particular concern me.Aside from being a vile sexual deviant, JV sounds like a spoilt brat who would have a hissy fit if he couldn't get his own way / struggling to cope. And when the mask slipped, I feel poor Preston took the brunt of this catastrophicly
Just as an aside , as a HCP I am always suspicious when treating people/ listening to the story of the incident and trying to filter of the story matches the injury
99.9% of the time it does, people are not devious or out to hurt
But this is the hard part, when you come across children in care / families under SW,
Children on protection plans, you have to be super curious on all elements ,
Injury’s / history of event / body language
Demeanours/ interaction of the child and adult
Clothing .. skin level visual assessments
Iv met some manipulative adults in my time, and they are hard bleeping work.. they try to charm you, become more overly friendly and use your name when speaking
For me.. all that behavior is logged .. but NHS training drums into you KIDS IN CARE are bleeping vulnerable as duck.. remeber this when seeing them and all contact is reported
So how did these two monsters slip by as a child that was healthy before going to them suddenly started having problems
bleeping makes my blood boil
99.9% of the time it does, people are not devious or out to hurt
But this is the hard part, when you come across children in care / families under SW,
Children on protection plans, you have to be super curious on all elements ,
Injury’s / history of event / body language
Demeanours/ interaction of the child and adult
Clothing .. skin level visual assessments
Iv met some manipulative adults in my time, and they are hard bleeping work.. they try to charm you, become more overly friendly and use your name when speaking
For me.. all that behavior is logged .. but NHS training drums into you KIDS IN CARE are bleeping vulnerable as duck.. remeber this when seeing them and all contact is reported
So how did these two monsters slip by as a child that was healthy before going to them suddenly started having problems
bleeping makes my blood boil
You took the words right out of my mouth. I bet there were whispers amongst the team that foster mum was overstepping the mark, demanding access to Preston, and why couldn’t she let Preston be now he was with his “proper” family, how dare she insinuate that there might be something amiss with the two dads, she’s probably stirring the pot because she’s a homophobe, and so on.
Hearts emoji was Preston's SW employed by Oldham Council. You have to wonder what on earth she was thinking and I suspect more will come out in the case review. My perception is that although he was a Looked After Child she didn't think that his adoptive parents could possibly harm him so paid less/no attention to the red flags if he has been with his birth family and on a child protection or child on need plan. My worry is that she was thinking about JV and JF and having a nice relationship with them rather than putting Preston's needs first and thinking about all the little bits of information she should have been putting together. Anyone who does child safeguarding training is trained that it's all the little bits of information that you need to put together and consider. Refusing to have a sensible time to do the meetings with the foster carers, repeat visits to hospital plus all the other bits of info she will have had *should* have made her think. She knew he was a well baby when he went to them and then he's having repeated health issues. It's absolutely drilled into you that bruises and broken bones in non walking baby are huge red flags. Certain areas for bruising and injuries too as they are not normal places for bruising.
A colleague of mine years ago told me that he and his wife had been referred to social services when their baby had a broken arm at about 8 months old. She'd been on the bed and then crawled or rolled to the edge and fell. Either Mike or his wife grabbed the baby as she fell but it resulted in a twisting break which is almost always a non accidental injury. They went to hospital etc and it was flagged up and social services opened a case.
The case was soon closed as their stories matched up and they were able to explain what had happened and there were no other factors for concern, no other bruising or old injuries. But nobody was like "ah yeah Mike is a good fella who works for the council and he's saying the right things so it's probably gonna be fine".
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