Sometimes hard choices have to be made. Do you stick with a job that you trained for but is making you miserable and not enough money, or do you find another job ?
You do what’s best for you.
Sometimes hard choices have to be made. Do you stick with a job that you trained for but is making you miserable and not enough money, or do you find another job ?It’s all a race to the bottom isn’t it
The thing is people will do this. They will do what is best for them and their families. People will leave nursing completely or move abroad. And then we lose a nurse we can’t easily replace. Who is going to staff the NHS then? How can people not see the problem here?Sometimes hard choices have to be made. Do you stick with a job that you trained for but is making you miserable and not enough money, or do you find another job ?
You do what’s best for you.
No one goes into nursing to get rich. People go into it because they want to nurse. Those people will go into nursing regardless of pay.The thing is people will do this. They will do what is best for them and their families. People will leave nursing completely or move abroad. And then we lose a nurse we can’t easily replace. Who is going to staff the NHS then? How can people not see the problem here?
I have just left my post as a senior band 5 nurse (which I LOVED) because the lack of staff and the recruiting of overseas nurses has made our job impossible. I have seen so many mistakes being made, way below substandard care and I can’t stay in this profession watching patients die. Yes I might be part of the problem leaving, but I have a family and if I end up in prison because of a mistake made Because of understaffing, my children would be left without a mother.The thing is people will do this. They will do what is best for them and their families. People will leave nursing completely or move abroad. And then we lose a nurse we can’t easily replace. Who is going to staff the NHS then? How can people not see the problem here?
No doubt about it. Nursing isn’t just any old job though is it? 3 years in University, shit loads of debt, making life changing medical decisions and dealing with death daily deserves decent pay. Not everyone has the skills required to become a nurseThere are a lot of jobs that don’t earn as much as nurses and they want to live too.
Exactly: the moral injury of having to work in a shitty health system just isn’t worth the pay eventually. Honestly if NZ was closer I would emigrate tomorrow. I just can’t take my child away from their grandparents. I don’t blame anyone who leaves the system for these reasons, it’s not worth it. But I never fail to be astonished how people can be so short sighted to not see that we NEED to attract and keep people working in the NHS and saying stupid stuff like “some people will nurse regardless of pay”. Fucking clueless honestly.I have just left my post as a senior band 5 nurse (which I LOVED) because the lack of staff and the recruiting of overseas nurses has made our job impossible. I have seen so many mistakes being made, way below substandard care and I can’t stay in this profession watching patients die. Yes I might be part of the problem leaving, but I have a family and if I end up in prison because of a mistake made Because of understaffing, my children would be left without a mother.
i think it’s really important to remember that when the shit hits the fan and the life of your loved one is in the balance, you would be personally willing to pay any amount of money for them to be saved.
You’re a fool if you believe that. There are plenty of jobs attractive to people with a caring vocation without the shit of working in a terminally underfunded nhsNo one goes into nursing to get rich. People go into it because they want to nurse. Those people will go into nursing regardless of pay.
God I could have written this. Are you in my trustAnd they will leave when they realise how undervalued they are and overstretched, the pay will always be crap and there’s more money by moving abroad or moving to the private sector or just leaving and people do leave nursing completely. Managers are not bothered, they don’t nurture the staff they have and in my experience are more interested in numbers rather than experience - they watch people leave and don’t (in my trust) bother with exit interviews to find out why people are leaving. So then they have a lack of staff and will poach international nurses. They aren’t allowed to take nurses from certain countries but will poach say an Indian nurse who’s working in Dubai. Then they will come and realise it isn’t the dream they were sold, get some experience and look elsewhere & the new one is trainee nursing associates to do the nurse’s job but on a lot less pay. I actually wrote this and I’ll honestly say I don’t know what the answer is. There was a mass exudous after Covid and I know everyone had it hard, and personally I’d have found it mentally worse in some ways if I was working from home, self employed or furloughed and was glad to still have a job to go to and mix with others and have company. I’m appreciative of all key workers and I couldn’t have coped without my local coop. BUT lots of nurses left after Covid because it was traumatic seeing so many people die and the factory like working conditions with people who could be anyone of your relatives. I do think there needs to be a reform on what a nurse does and how skilled they are, like in regular jobs. I personally would be shit in Aldi especially when people are slow to pack and the conveyer is backing up, I’m resigned to my role despite the pay and the conditions I enjoy looking after people and I’m skilled and good at it, would I like to be paid more. Yes. Do I deserve more pay? In my opinion yes, compared to other nurses who work in the same band who do a lot less, or those in a higher band who also do less. .
Mate it was nurses that started banging on about Aldi. It was nurses that made it their yardstick.I just think we’re missing the point that nursing is a highly skilled job requiring a degreeso Aldi shouldn’t really be our yardstick unless it’s a comparable job with comparable skills and responsibility. It’s pointless repeating this though.
I’m not a nurse so I’m coming from a different perspective mateMate it was nurses that started banging on about Aldi. It was nurses that made it their yardstick.
One or two don't speak for everyone.Mate it was nurses that started banging on about Aldi. It was nurses that made it their yardstick.
Exactly!. There was multiple staffing groups out on the picket lines from band 2 upwards. Just seems the vocal minority are focused on the nurses going to work because they care, money shouldn’t matter, suck up the shit pay because you may get a good pension at the end of itOne or two don't speak for everyone.
“Junior” doctor here (nearly ten years post qualification). The 35% is pay restoration not rise. We have suffered the deepest drop in public sector pay and have high costs associated with our training which we are expected to pay out of our own pockets (e.g exams compulsory for completion of training contracts). What’s unrealistic is a government which expects its health service to deliver “Scandinavian quality with Singaporean efficiency” (to quote our Chancellor) with a stagnant and inadequate budget.It was nurses that said they are using foodbanks. It was nurses who said that they could earn more at Aldi. It was not one or 2 nurses that said it. Nurses on this thread laughed at someone in this thread that said that they worked at Tesco.
You guys compared yourself to Aldi. Not us little peoplenow you're all mad because you realise how you sound.
Has anyone on this thread has said nurses shouldn't be paid more? I certainly haven't. My stance is you absolutely deserve a payrise (as do most people) and I actually think around 7% is reasonable along with your whatever changes you want to your working conditions. I didn't, and still don't, agree with your reasons and for the theatrical display of nurses in the workhouse as if everyone else is raking it in.
I have no problem with teachers, rail and bus strikes, because they didn't go on like the nurses.
Kinda on the fence with junior doctors. I mean 35% is so unrealistic it's crazy.
Serious question, why is it still considered "junior"“Junior” doctor here (nearly ten years post qualification). The 35% is pay restoration not rise. We have suffered the deepest drop in public sector pay and have high costs associated with our training which we are expected to pay out of our own pockets (e.g exams compulsory for completion of training contracts). What’s unrealistic is a government which expects its health service to deliver “Scandinavian quality with Singaporean efficiency” (to quote our Chancellor) with a stagnant and inadequate budget.
What I don’t get is why people seem to think non graduate entry jobs should get paid the same as graduate entry jobs?There are a lot of jobs that don’t earn as much as nurses and they want to live too.
It's like everyone suddenly supports communism.What I don’t get is why people seem to think non graduate entry jobs should get paid the same as graduate entry jobs?
Because what is and isn't a 'graduate entry job' is so arbitrary. I think plumbers and electricians who don't go to uni provide a more valuable and important service to society than someone who did a history of arts degree and now works on the BBC graduate scheme, so it's fine to me if the former earns more despite being 'less educated'. Some nurses don't have degrees as historically it wasn't a graduate profession, should those nurses earn less than the new ones with less experience but have a degree? I also think it would be very undesirable to live in a society where only those who are academically gifted can ever reach the highest wages. There are plenty of more useful and important skills to have. Some vital jobs are also just extremely unappealing - I can't think of anything worse than hauling heavy stuff around until 3am, or driving long distances etc - and to make those jobs worth it they need decent salaries, whereas people with stupid degrees are falling over themselves to do cushty 9-5 graduate schemes. I don't think it's communism to think that there's more to salaries than education, to me that's an extremely crude measure and I say that as someone who has several degrees.What I don’t get is why people seem to think non graduate entry jobs should get paid the same as graduate entry jobs?
No, us guys collectively did not. You are the one obsessed with mentioning Aldi and trying to belittle everyone on this thread who thinks they should earn a wage in relation to the training, risks, decision making their job entails.It was nurses that said they are using foodbanks. It was nurses who said that they could earn more at Aldi. It was not one or 2 nurses that said it. Nurses on this thread laughed at someone in this thread that said that they worked at Tesco.
You guys compared yourself to Aldi. Not us little peoplenow you're all mad because you realise how you sound.
Has anyone on this thread has said nurses shouldn't be paid more? I certainly haven't. My stance is you absolutely deserve a payrise (as do most people) and I actually think around 7% is reasonable along with your whatever changes you want to your working conditions. I didn't, and still don't, agree with your reasons and for the theatrical display of nurses in the workhouse as if everyone else is raking it in.
I have no problem with teachers, rail and bus strikes, because they didn't go on like the nurses.
Kinda on the fence with junior doctors. I mean 35% is so unrealistic it's crazy.
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