Nurses striking

[wearedoomed]

Years ago when there was strike action, it would hurt the bosses bottom line.

Now strikes just affect people who have no say in the reasons for the industrial action.

The government and executives don’t feel the pain of cancelled trains, missing hospital appointment letters or long waits for an ambulance.

They couldn’t give a shit. Plus the Tories ain’t getting voted in next time so why make the effort?

Can’t see a way out of it. Just more misery for everyone except the people in charge.

 

[veevee04]

Honestly I don't think the NHS will survive , it was designed when people would die relatively quickly. Years spent in poor health was short, the projected number one cause of death will be dementia and that can take 10-15 years to die from. It will be high taxes or private healthcare.
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I think there's a misconception from some of the public about what nurses do , they are expected to be angels , it's a vocation and not deserving of higher pay. In other countries nursing is more respected as a profession. I don't have a doctor on site where I am it's me making the clinical decisions , if someone is in status epilepticus it's me who starts the treatment It's me who administers insulin , glycogel, CPR, oxygen. I'm virtually alone well with 111 but that's a shit show.

I'm personally happy with my pay and staffing but that's because of where I work.

 

[JoeBloggs]

A lot of people in this thread would probably agree that nurses shouldn't be paid. They should survive on the sheer joy of caring for people.

I doubt anyone would agree with that statement. But whatever to make you feel better.

 

[Tui]

Sometimes hard choices have to be made. Do you stick with a job that you trained for but is making you miserable and not enough money, or do you find another job ?
You do what’s best for you.

The thing is people will do this. They will do what is best for them and their families. People will leave nursing completely or move abroad. And then we lose a nurse we can’t easily replace. Who is going to staff the NHS then? How can people not see the problem here?

 

[unidentified]

I think what gets forgotten about is that yes people choose to the job, yes people know what the salary is but those that have been qualified a long time are no longer able to do the job they trained for because working conditions are so bad and their salary has not risen with inflation. So as much as people can say ‘they knew what they were getting into’ for a lot of people no, they didn’t. The services have also changed drastically and not just as the populations needs have changed but people’s demands and expectations. Every health professional is now doing doing it on less staff and often unsafe skill mix.

 

[JoeBloggs]

I agree with you in the changes that need to happen but unfortunately nurses have been asking for these things for years and are not being listened to. Same as doctors. Whereas getting an objective pay rise is much easier to achieve.
The Scottish offer was an average rise of 7.5% , with it being 11% for the lowest paid depending on uplifts for different bands. Ultimately all NHS workers have experienced real terms pay cuts for the last 10 years and 7.5% average is sub inflation and another effective pay cut. They need to link public sector pay to RPI.

The thing is, to the public they are also experiencing a real terms pay cut and there sympathy is running out for these workers (mainly train/post). This is not an industry specific issue, this is a wider issue. As Yel has said, rent/housing cost, nursery costs, social cost etc are the issue that they could address to help everyone.

And I also think a big mistake was the uni/bursary issue. No nurse working in the NHS should be billed to get there.

 

[emm]

Still pro strike and happy a deal has been obtained but I do think comments comparing with Aldi workers are in very poor taste, not just nurses though, seen doctors doing the same on Twitter. You can make the point that your job is poorly compensated for the level of risk/responsibility and the conditions without punching down at what is undeniably seen as a 'menial' job, that's why it looks like HCPs are looking down on supermarket staff. Lets not forget that there will be staff in Aldi who have degrees and debt too, there are far more graduates than there are graduate jobs and many students work in supermarkets or retail/hospitality roles after they graduate, and supermarket workers are a weird one to have a pop at not least because they were also a group who had to keep working through the pandemic?! Yes, they weren't 'saving lives' but they were exposing themselves to COVID daily to keep us all fed, an extremely important job IMO.

Still pro strike and happy a deal has been obtained but I do think comments comparing with Aldi workers are in very poor taste, not just nurses though, seen doctors doing the same on Twitter. You can make the point that your job is poorly compensated for the level of risk/responsibility and the conditions without punching down at what is undeniably seen as a 'menial' job, that's why it looks like HCPs are looking down on supermarket staff. Lets not forget that there will be staff in Aldi who have degrees and debt too, there are far more graduates than there are graduate jobs and many students work in supermarkets or retail/hospitality roles after they graduate, and supermarket workers are a weird one to have a pop at not least because they were also a group who had to keep working through the pandemic?! Yes, they weren't 'saving lives' but they were exposing themselves to COVID daily to keep us all fed, an extremely important job IMO.

I think this is a problem with lots of.things nowadays,, everything is broadcast in the style of social media ie as quickly/few words as possible. As someone said earlier of course a doctor /nurse for their years of study and responsibility for , literally, life and death should be paid more than a supermarket worker but the simplistic way it has been explained is not at all helpful and does just come across as snobbery

 

[onservantannie]

You do know there aren't enough to go round as it is, don't you? If this is your approach good luck finding anyone left to care for you when you need it.

You can tell which comments are made by those with zero lived experience of the topic.

And you can tell which comments are made by those who have an overinflated ego of themselves and the profession.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

Just 2 examples for you. There are hundreds more

If they are concerned about dangers to patient safety, surely striking will only add to those dangers.

 

[Tui]

Aren’t you a little bit dramatic Honestly “betrayed” really?
Not a single country in the world were prepared despite virologists warning governments for years something like this is likely to happen.
Anyway this is what medical care workers are trained for.

Actually Singapore used the British model to prepare for a respiratory pandemic. We didn’t use our own model. Who fared better?
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Aren’t you a little bit dramatic Honestly “betrayed” really?
Not a single country in the world were prepared despite virologists warning governments for years something like this is likely to happen.
Anyway this is what medical care workers are trained for.

Also take it from someone who is actually medically trained that no, we aren’t trained to work in a critically under resourced health system hit by a once in a lifetime pandemic without sufficient personal protective equipment. What is your knowledge/experience to legitimise what you are saying? I have a feeling you don’t know what you are on about

 

[HoGi]

I’m not following
So every month I have approx £900 deducted from NI , tax , pension , student loan
However when we got the back dated pay one year and a lump sum , it put me into the next pension bracket so I had more deducted from me that money so instead of walking away with say 2.7k a month , I walked away with 2.1k amonth

it wasn’t just me ,there was all uproar all over the Facebook group for our trust , there was sooo many people who walked away with less because of the pension bracket and also pension arrears

I literally work in payroll in public sector. So I have seen many pay increases and unconsolidated payments being made. Each pension cont band is only 1 or 2% higher than the one before.

Even if you went into the 40% tax bracket as well as going up a contribution band you wouldn't be worse off with a pay increase and lump sum.

You generally lose about a third of your wages in deductions. Same applies to a lump sum.

Additionally if you pay extra tax when you go back down to your normal wage, you probably pay less tax each subsequent month to make up for the bit extra you paid previously.

To say you are worse off getting a lump sum is just a barefaced lie.

 

[Polythene Pam]

About student loans, I get just under £31k a year, well more due to the amount of overtime I do but that’s my basic wage. Last month I basically got no overtime pay (30mins only) and I only got £4 taken off me for my student loan. So I assume nurses payment is similar as I get a similar wage to them? I barely notice the student loan payments and I know I’ll never fully pay it off. So does the student loan actually affect nurses that badly?

It depends on when you studied. I graduated in 2010 and pay 9% of anything I earn over a certain amount. I'm also on 31k ish and on a normal month I pay around £60. When I get a bonus it's effectively taxed at 50% when you factor in PAYE, NI and loan.

Ofcourse, you've already told us how much money you make. We've also asked if you could make a contribution to the nurses but you've been very quiet.

We all contribute towards public sector pay and the NHS through general taxation. The NHS isn't a charity and it shouldn't be treated as such.

No one’s said nurses etc aren’t underpaid for what they do. My main issue is I’m absolutely sick of hearing how people can’t live on £33k per year when they “work hard and put up with abuse” and the only rhetoric is that they’re “highly skilled”
So is everyone who isn’t a nurse thick as pig shit and just floating through life then? No. There are plenty of examples of jobs that are gruelling, filled with abuse and unsafe staff levels that can’t strike, that do have to live on less than 30k. Prison officers being one of them.

People on this thread are way to sensitive. Saying nursing is a skilled profession is not the same as saying anyone else is thick as pig shit.
Again, we're back to "I can't strike so no one else should be able to" which is exactly what the government wants. Finger pointing at the lowest level saves them a job.
Are prison officer salaries set by the independent pay review body?

 

[miss n thropy]

The government won't even engage in discussions, they're ignoring it and hoping it goes away. The unions have proposed the percentage, if the government feel its unacceptable (which they do) they should be up for discussing it surely rather than waiting for the unions to keep saying the same thing or dropping it of their own accord.

I can’t help but feel that the lack of negotiation is a tactic by the government in order to drag out the pay dispute. That way they hope that public support will fade.

 

[ChrisInghamsBeanie]

Reading that article made me cry these are truly the things the nhs go thou each day I am a hca in a hospital when u have 6 people climbing out of bed 2 on end life you have multiple discharges that your have to go thou the things with check there body maps family members asking questions bed pans every 5 minutes being verbal attack but they got dementia and your short staffed it’s mentally exhausting and physically everyone who says the nhs shouldn’t strike I ask you to spend a day with us and experience us trying to do our best but we are so short we cant

I felt this too. I worked as a nurse in the NHS a long time ago (and then later in Ireland).
I eventually retrained and left the profession as the burn out is real.
People have no idea, none. Its not tottering around a ward doling out spoons of calpol and taking pulses. It's physically, mentally and emotionally draining.

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I know what you're saying. I think the salaries for these band 5/6 admin roles need to be that of the private sector to attract and keep people but from the point of view of of a dietician or nurse etc it's a bit disheartening. Nothing stopping nurses applying for these clerical roles for the same salary and many do but if everyone done that there would be no nurses left (exaggeration but you know what I mean) and that's why nurses and other allied healthcare professionals are fighting for recognition also.

I've said this before but the salaries are set by men who see it as women's work and not the hard graft it actually is.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Oh and here comes a man to tell us all how it should be. With his snappy original insightful little come backs.

 

[Tui]

If they are concerned about dangers to patient safety, surely striking will only add to those dangers.

Perhaps in the very short term but those can be mitigated by trust planning. In the long term without addressing the NHS staffing crisis by making nursing a more attractive career and retaining the staff we have, then we are fucked so patient safety will only be further compromise d

 

[Usagisakura90]

As a nurse, I definitely support the strikes. I am shocked by some of the posts on here, the government want us all to turn against each other when they are the ones to blame for this catastrophic situation. I have a masters degree, I have so much responsibility every shift and not only do I not have the pay to reflect this, but I am striking for patient safety and the unsafe staffing levels as well. All staff are the backbone of the NHS. We are losing registered nurses faster than ever, nursing degree applications are already down and with stagnant pay on the cards again the current nurse shortage will lead to the NHS not being viable, dismantled, and sold off to private US companies

I applied to do nursing at university 3 years ago and sadly despite having all the UCAS points and them loving me in the interview I didn't get on due to not getting the Maths grade required because of the stupid predicted grades nonsense during covid. Many people I know ended up in the same boat and either just gave up or like me went onto another course whilst we waited to be able to do the Maths that is required for the course.

My university said that a whole load of nursing students were lost due to covid and the predicted grades that no one could do anything about and since then the UCAS tarrifs have gone up, I even did nursing for health professionals but that still wasn't enough. I'd be nearly qualified by now if I'd been able to do the degree, but unfortunately covid messed alot up for potential nursing students.

I've reapplied but there are such a small amount of spaces for each degree and university its hard even to know if you'll be offered a place.

 

[Gossip101xoxo]

Can I just ask why people choose to go into nursing these days? Genuine question. It is well known that nurses and all health care professionals are underpaid and underworked. Is there a higher calling? Honestly I would rather work in Aldi for more money and less stress

 

[cee-bee]

The fact of the matter is the whole country is on its backside - nobody’s wages have increased in line with inflation! Why should nurses be any different to the rest of us?? Oh, because they “save lives”? Not saving lives when they’re withdrawing their labour are they.

“Everyone else is doing shit and accepting it so why are this lot asking for better?”

 

[Emsie]

Are the staff in the medical field that blind and self absorbed to their own issues that they think the answer is “strike yourselves”
People can’t lose days of pay to strike, some people such as the police and the army aren’t even allowed to strike which is abhorrent. Some don’t strike because they’re in a sector that’s stretched and don’t want to cause additional problems to their colleagues.
Those who have no choice but to rely on agency work for shit money, no guaranteed hours and often piss poor working conditions can’t strike.
Why is no one allowed to have a bitter taste in their mouth that in the middle of a cost of living crisis where everyone’s skint, people are going without food and heating, that the ones making the biggest stink about their wages are on a decent salary.

Say it louder for the people at the back!!!
Absolutely spot on!