Nurses striking

[Polythene Pam]

People are minterpreting highly skilled to mean hard work. Skilled jobs just mean specific skill sets which take longer to train in. For example it takes a time to train as a surgeon/engineer/electrician versus a retail or food service position where training is largely much quicker. All jobs are hard just in different ways.

Skilled workers are just more difficult and more expensive to replace because it takes longer to accumulate the skills needed.

Right?! During the pandemic my local Wilko created self service tills by just turning the regular till around, so shoppers can just use the tills with no training. I couldn't do anything a nurse does without training I don't think.
Doesn't mean I don't think retail is a really hard job. I am well aware it is.

being needed isn't unique to nurses.

This is such a straw man. No one said its unique to nurses.

I'll repeat what many others have said - unionise and ask for better conditions if you're not happy with your pay or terms and conditions. Not allowed to strike? Take some other kind of action.

I've had a 20% payrise in the last two years. Employment doesn't have to be on crappy terms and for crappy pay just because we live in the UK, there's a war, there was a pandemic, etc etc etc. It's literally all propaganda designed to keep you down.

Liz Truss is entitled to £115k a year to support her office costs. So are all the other ex-PMs and they all claim almost the max. There is plenty of money. Seriously.

 

[Emsie]

This is actually a thread about opinions on the nurses strike which everyone is giving.
Whilst a degree isn't negative, it is a barrier. If the NHS needs more nurses, then alternative methods to qualifying could be looked at. Lots of other professions have done this with a decent level of success.
My understanding is that nurses have been offered around 4 percent. That is probably a bit low. I don't think anyone has a problem with nurses getting a payrise in general but 19 per cent is too much. Whilst I appreciate the need to go in high and negotiate down if this had been pitched around 9 or 10 per cent there would probably be a lot more support for it and they'd probably end up with it.
Being held to ransom because we need nurses so much and they are so overworked and stressed out just doesn't sit well with an overworked and stressed out workforce and it's where it's losing favour imo. If nurses want more people on side the attitude needs to soften. I don't have a never ending supply of respect for professions and after a while I do start think aaah shut up now.

 

[cee-bee]

I've had a 20% payrise in the last two years. Employment doesn't have to be on crappy terms and for crappy pay just because we live in the UK, there's a war, there was a pandemic, etc etc etc. It's literally all propaganda designed to keep you down.

exactly this.

If someone is reading and thinking they’ve got it hard at work, no prospect of pay rises etc.

then expecting nurses, who are maybe paid more than them - to just suck it up… is categorically wrong in my eyes.

they should be questioning why they have it so badly, and how they can improve it, how they can unionise. Not just throwing the towel in and expecting other professions to do the same.

 

[Polythene Pam]

This is actually a thread about opinions on the nurses strike which everyone is giving.
Whilst a degree isn't negative, it is a barrier. If the NHS needs more nurses, then alternative methods to qualifying could be looked at. Lots of other professions have done this with a decent level of success.
My understanding is that nurses have been offered around 4 percent. That is probably a bit low. I don't think anyone has a problem with nurses getting a payrise in general but 19 per cent is too much. Whilst I appreciate the need to go in high and negotiate down if this had been pitched around 9 or 10 per cent there would probably be a lot more support for it and they'd probably end up with it.
Being held to ransom because we need nurses so much and they are so overworked and stressed out just doesn't sit well with an overworked and stressed out workforce and it's where it's losing favour imo. If nurses want more people on side the attitude needs to soften. I don't have a never ending supply of respect for professions and after a while I do start think aaah shut up now.

I agree there should be more routes into nursing (and all professions). The traditional university route is not for everyone and there should be other options.

As far as I can tell we are only being held to ransom by a government that refuses to engage on the topic of pay. The RCN said they would cancel the strikes if pay could be DISCUSSED. The government refused.
I don't think anyone thinks they'll get 19%. It's a starting point.

exactly this.

If someone is reading and thinking they’ve got it hard at work, no prospect of pay rises etc.

then expecting nurses, who are maybe paid more than them - to just suck it up… is categorically wrong in my eyes.

they should be questioning why they have it so badly, and how they can improve it, how they can unionise. Not just throwing the towel in and expecting other professions to do the same.

The problem is the NHS has for so many years had a captive market. If you want to be a nurse it's basically been your only choice, but that's changing now. We live in an ever globalised world and people will just leave the country.
My sister in law is a GP who consistently got urine infections as she got no breaks to go to the toilet. She now works in New Zealand.
My brother is a teacher who spent way too much of his own time AND MONEY on resources for children, losing sleep over whether children would be safe. He now works in Thailand and will probably never teach in the UK again.
I know two teachers that have quit in the last year with no other job to go to. It's bleeping bleak working in the public sector and we should all want more for them.
I want more for all workers. It literally doesn't have to be like this. Take a look at around at our European neighbours.

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

Government have a month to discuss pay again before we strike again twice end of January

 

[Sunflower91]

I think one of the mistakes those in charge of how this is pushed out to the public and media is making this all about pay. Reading comments on here from nurses and being around people who work for the NHS I think there’s more to it that would give more support and make people think about it more.
Comments on here and things I’ve seen from my family in the NHS, show that staffing is low to the point of being dangerous. My sister works in a diagnostic role- her lists are so long she barely has time to reassure people before having a serious procedure, there’s so few staff that they’re operating below the staff ratio they should be on a daily basis.

I might be being naive but I think positioning it as striking for safety, working conditions and resource problems with increasing pay as a solution is something easier for the public to digest and understand. There’s not many professions (at least not mine) where you can say “hey, my entire team want a pay rise because we can’t live on this money/ we work really hard and deserve a pay increase ” - you’d have to jump through the hoops of proving why you deserve it (and this isn’t my saying nurses don’t, just that when it comes to pay in most industries it is tactical). But something people can get behind and understand is “hey, things are really unsafe- we don’t have enough people, everyone is over worked and less and less people are joining us as a career- we think if the profession was more attractive (pay and benefits) then we can prevent this becoming a bigger issue”. At the moment it just plays into the governments and top dogs hands- demonises NHS workers, the general public fight with eachother instead of challenging the government about how things have got to this point.

 

[Polythene Pam]

I think one of the mistakes those in charge of how this is pushed out to the public and media is making this all about pay. Reading comments on here from nurses and being around people who work for the NHS I think there’s more to it that would give more support and make people think about it more.
Comments on here and things I’ve seen from my family in the NHS, show that staffing is low to the point of being dangerous. My sister works in a diagnostic role- her lists are so long she barely has time to reassure people before having a serious procedure, there’s so few staff that they’re operating below the staff ratio they should be on a daily basis.

I might be being naive but I think positioning it as striking for safety, working conditions and resource problems with increasing pay as a solution is something easier for the public to digest and understand. There’s not many professions (at least not mine) where you can say “hey, my entire team want a pay rise because we can’t live on this money/ we work really hard and deserve a pay increase ” - you’d have to jump through the hoops of proving why you deserve it (and this isn’t my saying nurses don’t, just that when it comes to pay in most industries it is tactical). But something people can get behind and understand is “hey, things are really unsafe- we don’t have enough people, everyone is over worked and less and less people are joining us as a career- we think if the profession was more attractive (pay and benefits) then we can prevent this becoming a bigger issue”. At the moment it just plays into the governments and top dogs hands- demonises NHS workers, the general public fight with eachother instead of challenging the government about how things have got to this point.

The media have positioned it as being all about pay. Same with royal mail and the trains. The crux of the issue is terms and conditions.
The ambulance service is undoubtedly about safety too. Anyone who knows anyone that's needed an ambulance knows that. My aunt fell and cracked her head open in the middle of winter and we had to scrape her off the ground ourselves and take her to hospital, even though moving someone with a head injury isn't advised. She would've frozen to death waiting for a first responder.
It's truly bleeping bleak out there.

I think one of the mistakes those in charge of how this is pushed out to the public and media is making this all about pay. Reading comments on here from nurses and being around people who work for the NHS I think there’s more to it that would give more support and make people think about it more.
Comments on here and things I’ve seen from my family in the NHS, show that staffing is low to the point of being dangerous. My sister works in a diagnostic role- her lists are so long she barely has time to reassure people before having a serious procedure, there’s so few staff that they’re operating below the staff ratio they should be on a daily basis.

I might be being naive but I think positioning it as striking for safety, working conditions and resource problems with increasing pay as a solution is something easier for the public to digest and understand. There’s not many professions (at least not mine) where you can say “hey, my entire team want a pay rise because we can’t live on this money/ we work really hard and deserve a pay increase ” - you’d have to jump through the hoops of proving why you deserve it (and this isn’t my saying nurses don’t, just that when it comes to pay in most industries it is tactical). But something people can get behind and understand is “hey, things are really unsafe- we don’t have enough people, everyone is over worked and less and less people are joining us as a career- we think if the profession was more attractive (pay and benefits) then we can prevent this becoming a bigger issue”. At the moment it just plays into the governments and top dogs hands- demonises NHS workers, the general public fight with eachother instead of challenging the government about how things have got to this point.

The media have positioned it as being all about pay. Same with royal mail and the trains. The crux of the issue is terms and conditions.
The ambulance service is undoubtedly about safety too. Anyone who knows anyone that's needed an ambulance knows that. My aunt fell and cracked her head open in the middle of winter and we had to scrape her off the ground ourselves and take her to hospital, even though moving someone with a head injury isn't advised. She would've frozen to death waiting for a first responder.

Government have a month to discuss pay again before we strike again twice end of January

I'm with you 100%

 

[Sunflower91]

The media have positioned it as being all about pay. Same with royal mail and the trains. The crux of the issue is terms and conditions.
The ambulance service is undoubtedly about safety too. Anyone who knows anyone that's needed an ambulance knows that. My aunt fell and cracked her head open in the middle of winter and we had to scrape her off the ground ourselves and take her to hospital, even though moving someone with a head injury isn't advised. She would've frozen to death waiting for a first responder.
It's truly bleeping bleak out there.


The media have positioned it as being all about pay. Same with royal mail and the trains. The crux of the issue is terms and conditions.
The ambulance service is undoubtedly about safety too. Anyone who knows anyone that's needed an ambulance knows that. My aunt fell and cracked her head open in the middle of winter and we had to scrape her off the ground ourselves and take her to hospital, even though moving someone with a head injury isn't advised. She would've frozen to death waiting for a first responder.

I'm with you 100%

I’m so sorry your aunt went through that, I hope she’s on the mend now.
My family have been through similar- and I know how terrifying and frustrating it is. Collectively we’ve made 3 complaints via the system, for 3 separate events- not about the staff themselves but around how things need to change safety wise in the hope that someone somewhere will hear it and do something to improve how things work so that it doesn’t result in a person dying or being a burden on the NHS as a consequence.

 

[cee-bee]

Government have a month to discuss pay again before we strike again twice end of January

likewise, I feel most sensible people know that by fighting for better conditions for themselves nurses are making health care safer for everyone.

 

[Tui]

being needed isn't unique to nurses.

And? What is your point?

 

[Merpedy]

Striking nurses don’t deserve a bumper pay rise

Today’s nurses strike may be the biggest action – or inaction – of its kind in NHS history. But there is a distinct sense of having been here before.

www.spectator.co.uk

I feel like this article touches upon the points that people are trying to make but get dismissed about because “it’s a strike for nurses”. Though there’s a focus on care workers and I’d think the response would be the same on that part

 

[gigilouxx]

Seems the cuts to social care have done a number across all sectors.
Whoever decided to cut social care, in an aging population mustn’t have the brains they were born with
I’m convinced these politicians are either thick or just sickeningly greedy

 

[Piff paff puff]

How on earth are we in the grip of socialists?! The country is in the state its in right now because of 12 years of Tory rule. It's getting really hard to convincingly blame anything else at this point.

Socialists in disguise. No one would ever vote socialists, that's why they pretend to be Conservatives.

 

[cee-bee]

Seems the cuts to social care have done a number across all sectors.
Whoever decided to cut social care, in an aging population mustn’t have the brains they were born with
I’m convinced these politicians are either thick or just sickeningly greedy

it’s the latter, combined with an element of arrogance in their own opinions and dogmatic views

Socialists in disguise. No one would ever vote socialists, that's why they pretend to be Conservatives.

don’t forget to put your tin foil hat on this morning before you go out

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Anyway, I genuinely wish I’d gone into finance or worked for a bank. I’m ragey tonight.

You absolutely don’t ! I did this when I left nursing. I’ve never been made to feel so unappreciated in my life. They mark you like you’re in school. Every month you’re taken in to a room and have to justify to them why they should carry on employing you and give you a 1% pay rise at the end of the year. There’s nothing more soul destroying than working yourself in to the ground all year then being given an ‘underperformer’ grading because not everyone can be top performer for being a creepy a kissing career chasing suck up.
I left to work in care at a fraction of the banks wages. Best move ever

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I think people saying that entry to nursing should be easier (no degree) or that their friend/ neighbour sister was desperate to be one but couldn’t because she didn’t have gcse maths are feeding into the narrative that nursing is an easy little woman’s job that anyone can do.

There have to be barriers to entry because it’s hard and skilled. It’s like saying let anyone who wants to train to be a doctor, I know they aren’t smart enough but they really want to do it

 

[gigilouxx]

Plenty of hard and skilled jobs have alternative routes of entry. How is suggesting that the NHS utilising on the job study and training making nursing a silly little woman’s job? Some people who want to do nursing and have the academic knowledge may not be able to go to university, Law, accounting, engineering is also hard and skilled, however there are alternative methods opposed to just university.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Plenty of hard and skilled jobs have alternative routes of entry. How is suggesting that the NHS utilising on the job study and training making nursing a silly little woman’s job? Some people who want to do nursing and have the academic knowledge may not be able to go to university, Law, accounting, engineering is also hard and skilled, however there are alternative methods opposed to just university.

This is why it needs an overhaul. Nurses never used to have to be university educated, and they were still bloody excellent, capable, highly trained and skilled. Bringing back training on the job that they are paid for would probably attract a lot more candidates. Also, whoever decided to get rid of nursing homes to accommodate staff while they trained is an idiot. They were a great way of providing trainees with somewhere cheap, clean and safe to live while they trained, and no travel costs to get to work as they were onsite.
Sometimes progress isn’t actually beneficial.

 

[emm]

This is why it needs an overhaul. Nurses never used to have to be university educated, and they were still bloody excellent, capable, highly trained and skilled. Bringing back training on the job that they are paid for would probably attract a lot more candidates. Also, whoever decided to get rid of nursing homes to accommodate staff while they trained is an idiot. They were a great way of providing trainees with somewhere cheap, clean and safe to live while they trained, and no travel costs to get to work as they were onsite.
Sometimes progress isn’t actually beneficial.

Totally agree, not to derail too much but there needs to also be more affordable housing for people generally in key jobs like there was in the past

I wonder what the government are going to do about the visa requirements for overseas workers, care workers, nurses etc don't make the minimum income requirements so either they need to raise their wages or lower the criteria and even then the UK is less and less of an attractive place for foreign workers to be

 

[Polythene Pam]

Totally agree, not to derail too much but there needs to also be more affordable housing for people generally in key jobs like there was in the past

I wonder what the government are going to do about the visa requirements for overseas workers, care workers, nurses etc don't make the minimum income requirements so either they need to raise their wages or lower the criteria and even then the UK is less and less of an attractive place for foreign workers to be

The government are on a sticky wicket re. overseas workers as they are now reliant on UKIP defectors for support.