- Notice
My experience of doctors (GPs anyway) is that they can be dangerously arrogant and out-of-date. Michael Moseley was willing to challenge the orthodoxy, and his approach to preventative medicine and self-help through healthy eating and a variety of exercises and practices was genuinely helpful to so many.
Very sad news. I don’t think there’s anything more to it than he went walking on a path he shouldn’t have, in the middle of a very hot day. I think he‘s slipped, knocked himself out, or got too hot and was overcome, or was dehydrated and fainted - sadly as mundane as that. Or even was bitten by a snake? I live in Australia and we know all too well heat kills.
I am glad he was found relatively quickly. It’d be too much for his family to bear if it was drawn out.
I am glad he was found relatively quickly. It’d be too much for his family to bear if it was drawn out.
That really is weird. It makes the original sighting of someone who claimed they ‘recognised him’ at a bus stop and asked for directions seem much more likely to be true. I expect they excluded it as there was no logic as to how he could have thought himself lost.
I think authorities were assuming he hadn’t reached Pedi because there’s no obvious way he could have had an accident from that point onwards (it’s one road so almost impossible to get lost, not cliff side and lined with houses, low traffic and low crime…an incredibly safe walk). They were assuming he must have fallen from the coastal path.
If he had fallen, he would also have been unlikely to have ended up in the sea, the rock face isn’t that steep, it would catch his fall and he’d get stuck on the rocks. They probably even with heat seeking equipment would find it hard to trace him if he’s in a well hidden spot as the ground would be so hot it would emulate body temperature. He may also have crawled intentionally into a crevice in the rocks to escape searing heat if injured.
Now that he’s confirmed as making it to Pedi…and the story from 2019 about an episode of short term memory loss…I think he may have had a similar episode and become confused. Then for whatever reason he’s headed off onto some side path or across rocky ground, become disorientated or trapped somewhere and collapsed from heat exhaustion. Either that or he decided to get into the sea and swim wherever he thought was the right direction.
The massive problem for the search team, based on my theory, is that he may not have been behaving logically. Meaning he could have decided to just scale a mountain in the wrong direction or swam as far as he could get away from shore. That’s probably why they are widening their search effort…because he’s not going to have had the obvious ‘accident and fallen on the coast path’ accident which would have been the first (most obvious) assumption. There is also the small chance that he’s got into a car (and for some reason the driver hasn’t come forward) and taken a lift somewhere and then got out and got lost, the south of the island is a couple of roads and mostly just rocks. He’s unlikely to have used any form or public transport as that would have been checked quickly.
They might have done this already…but they really need to ask the person who was wearing similar clothes in the area on that day to come forward and confirm all their whereabouts and timings and who they spoke to etc. That would help with the issue of working out which witness sightings are likely most reliable. It doesn't appear obvious as of yet that any of these small number of witness sightings are just time-wasters. With such a small population the people who make things up ‘to be involved’ in the police drama of it all gets much less
I don’t think suicide or other intentional disappearance at all. Going to the beach with his wife, who urgently needs to contact them other than their kids…maybe he leaves his phone behind if with her (men don’t always want things in pockets that they can loose easily, especially in the heat wearing loose fitting shorts or a beach). The decision to walk back alone isn’t strange either. The reporting has been muddled and made it sound like he went off on some hike alone…but it’s most likely that he just enjoyed walking more than the others present and enjoyed less time lying around on the beach. It wasn’t considered a dangerous path and should have been a simple walk with no way to get lost. When splitting with the group it would have been logical to have taken his wife’s phone for safety…but men often don’t think like that, he had no reason to think it was unsafe and it was a fairly well used path, plus we now know from the cctv that he navigated the coastal path safely, so in theory if he got into an difficulty after that point he had plenty of places, cafes, shops, houses…that he could have called on for help. There were witnesses on the beach…if there had been a huge row it would have been noticed. He also works with his wife and has a marriage of nearly 40 years…so they don’t seem the likely types to have public rows or sudden relationship dramas, they were also staying with friends…people don’t generally do that if they can’t behave themselves calmlas a couple…they would be in the privacy a hotel.
The theory of the intentionally running off with a mistress also doesn’t make any sense. It’s not easy to get off such a small island unnoticed, he wouldn’t be able to ever go back to the uk, plus by disappearing on holiday he’s made himself front page news, possibly in Greece as well…plus he wouldn’t be able to contact his children again, or work in anything he’s qualified in without any identity documents. If he wanted to end his marriage he would just do it in the uk as quietly as possible to protect his career and relationship with children as much as possible.
But…I wouldn’t rule out the sighting of him ‘with a woman’. If he’s had a memory issue he could be easily led by someone he got talking to. Again, if this is real sighting or just someone in similar clothes, any woman who was with a man dressed similar should come forward to help rule in or out that sighting. With his general personality I think he is the type that would stop and chat to random people if he’s in no rush on holiday, especially if they recognised him he would want to be polite and maintain his image. So with a memory loss incident he would be also be easy prey to someone wanting to do him intentional harm, but in that location it seems unlikely to have been that type of incident.
The area has a small population, even with low cctv coverage, if enough people co-operate they should be able to work through witness statements properly.
Sadly, I think the chances of him being alive after this amount of time are now getting very slim, dehydration alone would be deadly without other injuries if he did just walk off in an illogical direction. My prediction is that they will find his body within the next few days, but police won’t have an explanation of how he ended up in that location as he will be somewhere illogical. I think they’ll find him on land not in the water.
His family must be distraught, he always seems like a thoroughly decent man. When he does tv shows he is never judgmental or condescending towards those who aren’t making sensible decisions, aren’t as well educated as himself etc. He just informs and guides gently. Hopefully this will be resolved either way quickly. We had an incident in my family where someone went missing (they were found after about a week…it was intentional due to mental health issues)…from my experience the distress to family from the unknown is actually worse than a straightforward bereavement, I think it’s because you don’t know if the person could be still alive and suffering and you also don’t know what point you should give up hope and that feel guilt when doing so. If he stays missing long term his wife and children will then have that awful feeling of returning home without him, but not having closure.
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Also, to add. One positive thing.
The amount of media coverage due to his celebrity will mean that the Greek authorities know they are being watched and judged by a wide audience. It should make no difference to search operation decisions and resources deployed but realistically it does. He will be getting the best Greece can offer with support from the mainland being provided as well.
Quite possibly more search and police resources, and more time taken before calling off the search…a high-profile unresolved mystery such as this could affect tourism and the reputation of the island in particular and Greece as a holiday destination. The media coverage, even if it’s generating wild conspiracies online and lots of potentially insensitive chat for the family from bystanders (such as us), actually helps in this case. This is not at all like Nicola Bulley…the police in that case were dealing with a wider population getting involved in the case with fake tip offs or sightings etc which massively interfered with their ability to run the investigation. With this case, anyone who wasn’t physically part of the small island population on that first day/night should easily be dismissed as unreliable. The whole island is actually small enough that with a police team from the mainland they could try door to door enquires for the whole place if they thought that would yield anything. They should have done that already along his expected route.
I think authorities were assuming he hadn’t reached Pedi because there’s no obvious way he could have had an accident from that point onwards (it’s one road so almost impossible to get lost, not cliff side and lined with houses, low traffic and low crime…an incredibly safe walk). They were assuming he must have fallen from the coastal path.
If he had fallen, he would also have been unlikely to have ended up in the sea, the rock face isn’t that steep, it would catch his fall and he’d get stuck on the rocks. They probably even with heat seeking equipment would find it hard to trace him if he’s in a well hidden spot as the ground would be so hot it would emulate body temperature. He may also have crawled intentionally into a crevice in the rocks to escape searing heat if injured.
Now that he’s confirmed as making it to Pedi…and the story from 2019 about an episode of short term memory loss…I think he may have had a similar episode and become confused. Then for whatever reason he’s headed off onto some side path or across rocky ground, become disorientated or trapped somewhere and collapsed from heat exhaustion. Either that or he decided to get into the sea and swim wherever he thought was the right direction.
The massive problem for the search team, based on my theory, is that he may not have been behaving logically. Meaning he could have decided to just scale a mountain in the wrong direction or swam as far as he could get away from shore. That’s probably why they are widening their search effort…because he’s not going to have had the obvious ‘accident and fallen on the coast path’ accident which would have been the first (most obvious) assumption. There is also the small chance that he’s got into a car (and for some reason the driver hasn’t come forward) and taken a lift somewhere and then got out and got lost, the south of the island is a couple of roads and mostly just rocks. He’s unlikely to have used any form or public transport as that would have been checked quickly.
They might have done this already…but they really need to ask the person who was wearing similar clothes in the area on that day to come forward and confirm all their whereabouts and timings and who they spoke to etc. That would help with the issue of working out which witness sightings are likely most reliable. It doesn't appear obvious as of yet that any of these small number of witness sightings are just time-wasters. With such a small population the people who make things up ‘to be involved’ in the police drama of it all gets much less
I don’t think suicide or other intentional disappearance at all. Going to the beach with his wife, who urgently needs to contact them other than their kids…maybe he leaves his phone behind if with her (men don’t always want things in pockets that they can loose easily, especially in the heat wearing loose fitting shorts or a beach). The decision to walk back alone isn’t strange either. The reporting has been muddled and made it sound like he went off on some hike alone…but it’s most likely that he just enjoyed walking more than the others present and enjoyed less time lying around on the beach. It wasn’t considered a dangerous path and should have been a simple walk with no way to get lost. When splitting with the group it would have been logical to have taken his wife’s phone for safety…but men often don’t think like that, he had no reason to think it was unsafe and it was a fairly well used path, plus we now know from the cctv that he navigated the coastal path safely, so in theory if he got into an difficulty after that point he had plenty of places, cafes, shops, houses…that he could have called on for help. There were witnesses on the beach…if there had been a huge row it would have been noticed. He also works with his wife and has a marriage of nearly 40 years…so they don’t seem the likely types to have public rows or sudden relationship dramas, they were also staying with friends…people don’t generally do that if they can’t behave themselves calmlas a couple…they would be in the privacy a hotel.
The theory of the intentionally running off with a mistress also doesn’t make any sense. It’s not easy to get off such a small island unnoticed, he wouldn’t be able to ever go back to the uk, plus by disappearing on holiday he’s made himself front page news, possibly in Greece as well…plus he wouldn’t be able to contact his children again, or work in anything he’s qualified in without any identity documents. If he wanted to end his marriage he would just do it in the uk as quietly as possible to protect his career and relationship with children as much as possible.
But…I wouldn’t rule out the sighting of him ‘with a woman’. If he’s had a memory issue he could be easily led by someone he got talking to. Again, if this is real sighting or just someone in similar clothes, any woman who was with a man dressed similar should come forward to help rule in or out that sighting. With his general personality I think he is the type that would stop and chat to random people if he’s in no rush on holiday, especially if they recognised him he would want to be polite and maintain his image. So with a memory loss incident he would be also be easy prey to someone wanting to do him intentional harm, but in that location it seems unlikely to have been that type of incident.
The area has a small population, even with low cctv coverage, if enough people co-operate they should be able to work through witness statements properly.
Sadly, I think the chances of him being alive after this amount of time are now getting very slim, dehydration alone would be deadly without other injuries if he did just walk off in an illogical direction. My prediction is that they will find his body within the next few days, but police won’t have an explanation of how he ended up in that location as he will be somewhere illogical. I think they’ll find him on land not in the water.
His family must be distraught, he always seems like a thoroughly decent man. When he does tv shows he is never judgmental or condescending towards those who aren’t making sensible decisions, aren’t as well educated as himself etc. He just informs and guides gently. Hopefully this will be resolved either way quickly. We had an incident in my family where someone went missing (they were found after about a week…it was intentional due to mental health issues)…from my experience the distress to family from the unknown is actually worse than a straightforward bereavement, I think it’s because you don’t know if the person could be still alive and suffering and you also don’t know what point you should give up hope and that feel guilt when doing so. If he stays missing long term his wife and children will then have that awful feeling of returning home without him, but not having closure.
---
Also, to add. One positive thing.
The amount of media coverage due to his celebrity will mean that the Greek authorities know they are being watched and judged by a wide audience. It should make no difference to search operation decisions and resources deployed but realistically it does. He will be getting the best Greece can offer with support from the mainland being provided as well.
Quite possibly more search and police resources, and more time taken before calling off the search…a high-profile unresolved mystery such as this could affect tourism and the reputation of the island in particular and Greece as a holiday destination. The media coverage, even if it’s generating wild conspiracies online and lots of potentially insensitive chat for the family from bystanders (such as us), actually helps in this case. This is not at all like Nicola Bulley…the police in that case were dealing with a wider population getting involved in the case with fake tip offs or sightings etc which massively interfered with their ability to run the investigation. With this case, anyone who wasn’t physically part of the small island population on that first day/night should easily be dismissed as unreliable. The whole island is actually small enough that with a police team from the mainland they could try door to door enquires for the whole place if they thought that would yield anything. They should have done that already along his expected route.
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DaisyDeluxe
VIP Member
This is how my grandmother died. Not while out in hot temperatures in Greece, just here in Scotland going about her daily business for shopping. Just dropped dead totally out of the blue, they said she was dead before she even hit the ground. I guess for the person concerned they had no idea and didn't suffer. But a very big shock for the family left behind.
KawaiiSloth
Chatty Member
What makes me so sad is how he was determined to outlive his male relatives by changing his diet and getting into fitness, only for this tragic accident to happen before he got to reach 70 
. I remember reading an article only a couple of weeks ago about how he was taking vitamin D tablets daily to prolong his life.
Edit: BBC 1 will be airing a tribute programme for him on Friday 14th June at 8pm.
. I remember reading an article only a couple of weeks ago about how he was taking vitamin D tablets daily to prolong his life.Edit: BBC 1 will be airing a tribute programme for him on Friday 14th June at 8pm.
GalaxyCake
Member
An interesting fact many don't know about depression is that a lot of sufferers perk up and appear much happier in the weeks or days leading up to their final act. Not suggesting it's related to this case in any way, but it's an important thing to know on a personal level and to spot the signs in your loved ones as well. It's because that once they finally make the decision, they see an end to their suffering. Many people act unusually buoyant and might start giving away their possessions. Others give the impression they've turned the corner but only because they've already made up their mind and are busy planning or re-planning the details in their head.Michael Mosley shows us that pessimism is a choice - The Quest Institute
Michael Mosley is one of the most useful makers of documentaries. His one on weight loss made the health benefits of fasting twice a week so compellingwww.questinstitute.co.uk
He said in an article many years ago he always saw the bad side of things. I wonder if there is any history of depression. I did find it odd that his brother said he was ‘ in good spirits ‘ when he spoke to him before his holiday. Strange choice of words and to me suggesting that this wasn’t always the case.
Not suggesting anything sinister has happened but it’s another angle I guess. I truly hope that’s not the case.
Being in good spirits generally has zero correlation to the severity of someone's MH issues. Only their closest relatives or therapist can judge whether they're truly at risk of dangerous behaviour.
scantysandwich
Chatty Member
That study had severe limitations and there are many many studies showing benefit. Dr Mosley managed to put his type two diabetes into remission following his eating plan, which is a huge benefit to one’s health so I have to completely disagree about fasting being an unhealthy way of eating. On a personal note I’ve reversed my own pre diabetes using the plan and within the fasting community this is very common. He has helped many people.
IfTheCapFits
VIP Member
From DMail, natural causes (more tests to be done) TOD around 4pm Weds, so before he was reported missing...
"The autopsy carried out by Rhodes coroner Despina Nethena showed that there was no third party involvement and no 'criminal' element involved but a definite cause of death has yet to be established
Police and the coroner are also investigating footage from the restaurant seen by MailOnline which shows Dr Mosley wandering in a confused state for twenty minutes before collapsing.
Temperatures at the time had been nudging 40c and the excessive heat is thought to have played a role in his death.
In the video he appears to pause momentarily by the perimeter wall, resting one hand on it and then he loses his balance and disappears from sight.
MailOnline retraced the route and it should only have taken five minutes but Dr Mosley appeared to be wandering for twenty minutes before disappearing from view.
According to Greek website ProThema the death was put at 4pm on the day he disappeared but there was no official comment from the coroner when she was contacted."
Edit to add - BBC saying in last hour that police commented that cctv shows him in distress before falling, natural causes confirmed.
So likely heat exhaustion I'd guess. So incredibly sad, keep thinking about him.
"The autopsy carried out by Rhodes coroner Despina Nethena showed that there was no third party involvement and no 'criminal' element involved but a definite cause of death has yet to be established
Police and the coroner are also investigating footage from the restaurant seen by MailOnline which shows Dr Mosley wandering in a confused state for twenty minutes before collapsing.
Temperatures at the time had been nudging 40c and the excessive heat is thought to have played a role in his death.
In the video he appears to pause momentarily by the perimeter wall, resting one hand on it and then he loses his balance and disappears from sight.
MailOnline retraced the route and it should only have taken five minutes but Dr Mosley appeared to be wandering for twenty minutes before disappearing from view.
According to Greek website ProThema the death was put at 4pm on the day he disappeared but there was no official comment from the coroner when she was contacted."
Edit to add - BBC saying in last hour that police commented that cctv shows him in distress before falling, natural causes confirmed.
So likely heat exhaustion I'd guess. So incredibly sad, keep thinking about him.
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Emlo
Well-known member
Just to follow up my post, this video puts the location into more context.I don't know anything about the reliability of this news source but if true this is so heart-breakingly sad. So close to civilization when he collapsed/ perhaps fell from higher. Article reports he was spotted when journalists were reviewing their drone footage.
The photos are very distressing so view with caution.
Σύμη: Νεκρός ο αγνοούμενος παρουσιαστής του ΒΒC - Βρέθηκε από την ανάλυση των πλάνων της ΕΡΤ
Bρέθηκε χωρίς τις αισθήσεις του ο παρουσιαστής του ΒΒC, Μάικλ Μόσλεϊ που είχε εξαφανιστεί εδώ και μέρες στη Σύμη. Η σορός του εντοπίστηκε σε φράχτη στηνwww.ertnews.gr
Nurseali
VIP Member
I avoided this post when he was missing and after as I was so upset.
I bought his book years ago and initially started keto/low carb thinking if I lose a few lb that will be good.
I lost nearly 2 stone in months , my mental clarity improved , my fitness, my life in every way was better. I found confidence to change my personal life that had needed a change for years.
His FB pages show how many lives he has improved and made better.
RIP
I bought his book years ago and initially started keto/low carb thinking if I lose a few lb that will be good.
I lost nearly 2 stone in months , my mental clarity improved , my fitness, my life in every way was better. I found confidence to change my personal life that had needed a change for years.
His FB pages show how many lives he has improved and made better.
RIP
Boxatrix
Active member
I think there isn't nearly enough information about heat exhaustion. Given everywhere is heating up there really should be. The onset is quite fast, especially if you're exercising or moving quickly or have recently had even a little alcohol - but unfortunately it's a sort of cascade effect and you don't realise it when you're actually already in trouble. By the time you do, a lot of damage can be already done.
An average sized person in early heat stroke can sweat 1.5 litres per hour, but our guts can only absorb 1 litre per hour. This is what I mean by cascade: by the time you're aware of the issue, hydration alone isn't going to help. Only cooling the body will help. That may have been why Dr Mosley was heading for the sea.
God love the poor man, nothing about that day gave him a break, it was too hot and apparently windy, which would have dried his sweat faster - by the time he realised he was in trouble he would have very soon after become very confused. This might have been a mercy though because likely he was barely conscious of anything at the end.
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NumptymeNumptyyou
Chatty Member
Exactly they may not practice what they preach, stand outside a hospital and see the staff smoking.
And despite Mosley using his doctor title to make him seem more knowledgeable with his diet programs and selling his books, most doctors don't know much about nutrition it's a tiny part of their learning, that's why you get refered to a specialist nutritionist.
I'm not badmouthing him and I didn't want him to die. But I'm not a fan but there is a lot of people making out he was this altruistic soul. He made a lot of of money out of the diet industry.
And despite Mosley using his doctor title to make him seem more knowledgeable with his diet programs and selling his books, most doctors don't know much about nutrition it's a tiny part of their learning, that's why you get refered to a specialist nutritionist.
I'm not badmouthing him and I didn't want him to die. But I'm not a fan but there is a lot of people making out he was this altruistic soul. He made a lot of of money out of the diet industry.
Piff paff puff
VIP Member
The one consolation we can take from this is that lives may be saved with someone so high profile dying from heat stroke.
jackolantern
VIP Member
I think it's sad to see people blaming him for walking off in those temperatures. It may be foolish but he obviously didn't expect this, we all make mistakes and over estimate our capabilities sometimes. It could be as simple as taking a wrong turn which pushed his body further than he intended, he lost his footing and couldn't come back from it. Or he could have become disorientated because of already feeling poorly and it impaired his decision making. I mean look how many experienced climbers still call out mountain rescue. Everyone has accidents and expecting someone to be above it that because they are a doctor is naive. It's like saying a fireman should never cause an accidental fire or a mechanic should never allow their car to break down. Absolutely tragic news but I did expect it from the moment he went missing, it usually turns out this way sadly :'( I just hope it was over quick for him.
This would be normal: you can't go out in these conditions at midday in the Mediterranean climate in June to look for someone, you have to go out very early, which is what has been reported (that they resumed the search at 6am this morning), or wait until the evening. And certainly not after dark because of the dangerous terrain they are now searching. Honestly, norther Europeans are so naive about the temperature down here and how it can affect you, and how dangerous it can be. Before we had air con in all the shops etc in Madrid, the city was deserted between 2 and 5pm because it was too hot to be out and about.
ClockworkDolly
VIP Member
Poor Michael, he helped so many people with his dietary advice, myself included. So sad that he died alone and in those circumstances. I feel so sad for his wife and children.