Madeleine McCann #6

[albertman]

Yes it’s possible but we’ve been promised evidence by German officials and after several years they’ve produced nothing.

And an abduction does not explain the presence of cadaverine in the apartment.

 

[Lonewolf]

Wow I have no words

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

Nothing would stop me looking for my child.

 

[Hally34]

it would be incredible if this case was solved and it was Christian.
I am still very much in the camp that it was an intruder who had been watching the family and picked out Maddie and so could be him.
I‘m highly convinced the parents had drugged the children to get them to sleep and it meant poor Maddie had no chance to be alarmed to him coming in. I feel the fact both twins remaining asleep when they found her gone and when the police arrived tells me they were drugged.
I would suspect the perpetrator did a practice run on a prior evening, learned the layout, maybe even realised that the kids were completely out of it and cemented their plan.
If the parents were directly involved or anyone else in the tapas group I feel it would have come out by now. If someone / the group were peodos I feel like a victim would have come forward knowing of the connection to Madeline.
I do blame the parents for neglecting Maddy and still can’t believe they left the children to go for dinner. I do hope that this case did at least save many other children from coming to harm as parents thought twice about doing something similar.

 

[Gullri]

I do find Bens mother much more sympathetic. Could be my background.
I sometimes feel bad for thinking Mccanns are suspicious. I base it a lot on how I react to them. That I don’t like them.

 

[griftalo]

Yeah I can see that the parents were told not to search. Because if you found your child you would hug them and will them alive and pick them up and possibly contanimate any evidence (well we would G&K would have their hands full of tennis rackets).

No one deserves to have their child murdered. You know who else didn't deserve it. Poor little Maddie.

The first thing you do if you can’t find your child is look though, right? Then you don’t find them with a search and call the police. Who in their right mind would leave kids in an unlocked apartment then say “they’ve taken her”. You’d assume the kid got out of the door you carelessly left unlocked? Who was the they she referred to?

 

[90sGal]

I think we are all focused on what evidence there is.

I think the truth of what happened lies somewhere between what's been said and what we are being told to focus on and what's not been discussed. As in all the pieces of the puzzle of leaving the children alone, children going to kids clubs etc...focuses us on putting 2+2 and coming up with oh this must have happened. (Abduction)

When I think its those bits in the middle that we don't discuss or have any focus on actually that should be questioned.

One thing always struck me as odd is a few years ago crimewatch did a new appeal. The McCanns were interviewed. To me it felt like they were under the spotlight. Towards the end the mum was asked what would you say out there to appeal to anyone that knows anything of what happened to Madeleine. And her mum looked at the camera and said something along the lines of if you know anything please get intouch to help us solve this CASE.

She referred to the situation as a CASE. Not a desperate mother wanting her daughter...

Odd choice of words I thought.

The cadvadar smell in the car, the local priest that the mum had been to see that moved and refuses to talk about it, the broken shutters... something doesn't add up.

The answer is hidden in plain sight I think.

 

[Facehugger]

Whenever I've been on holiday abroad, and I've said this before, I always took my son with me. Portugal,Spain, Cyprus, Egypt and even Kenya, never left him on his own to be looked after by any foreign babysitting service who's employees I don't know from Adam and trust.
It's accepted abroad that whole families go out together to eat late, if the kids are too tired then you stop in with them, simple as that. All this checking on them/not checking on them/did they/didn't they and all that nonsense is a moot point to me.

 

[griftalo]

I agree and this important insight has been discussed before on this thread. My opinion about the McCanns changed after I had my son. The terror and fear i experienced when just losing him for an hour after school one day made the McCanns’ behaviour utterly inexplicable to me. You have to watch their very early interviews again to understand clearly that these are not 2 people in a state of panic about the terrible things that might have befallen their daughter due to THEIR neglect. Perhaps they were mourning or in shock, that is quite possible, but it is very clear from those interviews that they had CLOSURE, and that is a very different state of being to that open-ended state of tearing anxiety that is surely with you every minute of every day when your child is missing, possibly abducted. “At least we didn’t lose all 3 kids” and “after the first few days we started sleeping through the night” and “out of this bad deed good things have come”, my arse. No parent who believes that their defenceless little child is somewhere out there somewhere alone, hurt, frightened, calling for them, would say such things.

I don’t think normal parents would say those things at all

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

I'm just putting this here as a marker. But listened to a few videos lately saying they believe she will be found and this has all been done to bring in chips for children. I'm not saying I believe that but just in case I'm putting it here.

There is so way the general public would agree to chip their children. Most don’t leave their kids alone at night anyway!

My dog has a microchip and I still don’t leave her unattended outside a shop just in case

 

[PineappleQueen19]

And we don’t even know for a fact that the door was left unlocked. IIRC the unlocked door detail only emerged from the McCanns once it became evident the window could not have been ‘jemmied’ as they initially claimed.

Yes leaving a door unlocked paints you in a bad light as a parent but so does leaving your children unattended (even if only for the brief periods initially claimed), so in the crucial hours following a disappearance, why not fess up straight away that the door was unlocked to give you the maximum chance of your daughter being found alive? What could be more important? Why deliberately mislead police to waste all that time ruling out the window as being faulty and the obvious point of an intruder’s entry and exit?

 

[Kiwigirl]

Yes. If you believed your eldest child had been kidnapped, there is no way you would leave the younger ones to raise the alarm. You would bundled them up and flee the apartmen.

Following this, if you believed your child had been abducted from the security lax Mark Warner hotel, you would definitely not leave your twins in the crèche AFTER your eldest had been taken. Even if you didn’t ‘blame’ the hotel, it would be natural to want to keep a very close eye on your children considering what had just happened. The McCanns had no qualms about leaving their twins in the creche, be if for a morning run or a press conference,

The dogs - Keela and Eddie - were ‘never wrong’ until the McCann case. The evidence they had sniffed out previously was always accepted until they sniffed out cadaverine behind the sofa of the apartment, in Gerry’s blue duffel bag, the fridge and the boot of the rented car. Suddenly, they were no longer reliable.

These are just examples of why I don’t believe a word they say. This is just off the top of my head. I wasn’t even a mother yet back in 2007 but when I became one, IF a I were to leave my children alone in a hotel room, abduction wouldn’t be at the top of my hazards list. I see my kids getting up and falling, trying to open doors or windows, climbing on furniture and hurting themselves etc.

This leads me to think that leaving the children alone was a to cover up something. Sky news, charity, Gordon Brown, the whole thing stinks.

Yeah hubby and I have always had an uneasy feeling about those two "Doctors" and their friends....
Something just doesn't add up does it?
We have both said that if we had discovered one of our children had been taken from the room, then there's no way on God's earth would we leave the other two to go and raise the alarm...utterly bizarre behaviour from seemingly intelligent individuals.

 

[PineappleQueen19]

On balance of everything we know, I struggle to find much sympathy for Kate. Yes her being emotional came across as sincere - although it did seem more like outright grieving a death than the bewilderment of a child missing without a trace - however it’s not like she had much choice.

It is well known how the media and society treats women who don’t show what is deemed to be enough emotion. Two famous examples that spring to mind: Lindy Chamberlain and Joanne Lees (gf of Peter Falconio). Plus I doubt Gerry is capable of showing any emotion other than irritation and barely concealed anger so Kate had to show enough for the both of them.

And for all her emotion it didn’t stop her: refusing to answer questions, declining a re-enactment, using the donations to pay the mortgage, leaving her babies to cry for hours on end, claiming she is a responsible parent (the hubris!), saying she only felt guilty for a few days, writing about her daughter’s genitals in her book…. the list is endless.

She is very possibly in a coercive controlling relationship however imo that doesn’t absolve someone of ALL responsibility, particularly when it comes to defenceless babies. What did their priest say? “I was deceived”. Indeed.

 

[PineappleQueen19]

Whatever happened, it’s not straightforward. It will be a combination of things. Eg even if she was abducted, the McCanns are still covering up for something - hence all the bizarre behaviour at odds with finding a lost child - the question becomes what were they covering up.

I find it so difficult to dismiss Katherina Gaspar’s statement. I believe it was a true account and that she had real, legitimate concerns. Enough to want to protect her own children from those men.

P.J. POLICE FILES: DOCTOR KATHERINA GASPAR ALLEGED PAYNE INCIDENT

 

[griftalo]

To be honest, I don't have much faith in any statements made by the McCanns, or anyone accused of an awful crime, most people are self-serving especially if they've done something wrong.
In the same way, the McCanns ended their involvement in the Zappata case when he confessed to killing his wife, but this doesn't mean they were involved in MM's disappearance.

Obviously, it's impossible to prove something didn't happen, I'm doubtful evidence will be found now to prove what happened to MM. The German police contacted the parents and appeared to be confident that MM is dead, but they don't seem to have the evidence to prove CB killed her.

It's just so sad and frustrating, evidence may have been found if MM's disappearance was immediately reported to police, if the scene wasn't contaminated by people traipsing in and out and if the case was better managed by police

It does show that the dogs were correct though even though they’d had people discrediting them - like people tried to do in this case. Plus they had pushed the dogs are shady narrative so hard of course they didn’t want that dragging up.
I don’t believe the scene was mismanaged, it had been cleaned with bleach prior to arrival and you agree that it had had every Tom dick and harry in and out before they arrived. Which I believe was deliberate. So much of what they did was the exact opposite of parents wanting to find their loved child.
Refusing to answer the questions is one thing I found extremely dodgy. Most people would crawl naked over broken glass to find their child if it would help.

 

[Loppylou89]

I hope this is true. I hope she was taken to a childless couple and she grew up happily. As much as I wish this whole thing never happened, it's better than the alternative.

I completely agree, I hope she went to a family that really love her and don't leave her while they go out for dinner

 

[Naffdoff]

It’s widely reported that the twins were put in the crèche the next day and every opportunity after that until they hired the villa. Seriously who would let your other children out of your sight after 1 had “disappeared”

 

[hehehe]

I think the only thing for me personally talking for the Mccanns innocence is that Maddie disappeared in a foreign country.

I do think an accident, probably happened and Kate feels more guilt. Maybe she tried to save Maddie, doing CPR behind the sofa, blood came out through Maddies mouth and got on the wall. Police did find traces of blood on the wall there.

But at the same time, it just seems so unlikely that McCanns were able to get rid of Maddies little dead body. That part is hard to grasp, Jerry dropping the body in a well but no one sees him, finds the body or anything. The corpse in a bag in the closet sounds very stressful for the parents. Even if Jerry is a cool person he is obviously getting stressed and angry when an interviewer ask them about the dogs.
---
If they were at home in Leicester it would be easier for them to hide the body, but in a small tourist town in Portugal it would be harder to get hide the body. I would have no clue as a tourist of where to go.

That's interesting, cos I think it's the other way round -- the advantage of a foreign country is, as we saw, bungling investigations, which can happen in the UK (Sarah Payne) but not that frequently. With that much pressure, UK police would have found Maddie within a week. I'd imagine McCann's had been to Portugal a few times, but I don't know.

 

[Xanadu]

If she could hear her dad talking how was he at the tapas place at the same time?

Surely the risk of them not being there when she died is the same risk as not being there when she was taken? How would they know that the media would be on their side?

It would have been far more believable to say that Gerry was chatting to someone just in the doorway and Maddie slipped and fell and died. That's a tragic accident?!

In Gerry’s statement he says that he checks on the children around 9pm…. After exiting the flat he then chats to a fellow holidaymaker outside on the street (the lounge window faces out onto said street). He then returns to the tapas restaurant.

He has no idea she woke and fell to her death at this point. The police believe Madeleine lay dead behind the sofa for approx 30min. It’s also believed that Matthew Oldfield was the one to raise the alarm, as he noticed Madeleine was missing from her bed when he did his check….. The key to this, is that the alarm has been raised for Madeleine being missing as they genuinely didn’t know where she was, they thought she’d somehow got out of the apartment. Its only 10/15min later she’s discovered dead behind the sofa. But by this point half of the Ocean Club is looking for her, so they can’t pretend it’s an accident and Gerry was there….its too late for that. They’d inadvertently blown the whistle on themselves so to speak. It’s after this that Gerry takes the desperate and unplanned move to take Madeleine from apt 5a, and he heads towards the beach to temporarily conceal the body. And it’s on his way to the beach he’s seen by the Smith family at around 10pm…

 

[griftalo]

They sociopaths then or what do you reckon?

They’re outside of what I’d consider normal for sure.