It's the number of neonatal deaths per 1000 live births, so if there was 12 neonatal deaths out of 3000 livebirths it would be 4. Its probably not a measure of how many died in Chester's NICU. Science on trial have asked for figures under a freedom of information request presented them in a graph but not interpreted what they actually mean.It’s not a percentage though. It’s deaths per 1000. There is no way 1000s and 1000s went through the neonatal unit in the time period. More like 400.
Yes but the yellow ONS figures represent the area wide figures for all babies.It's the number of neonatal deaths per 1000 live births, so if there was 12 neonatal deaths out of 3000 livebirths it would be 4. Its probably not a measure of how many died in Chester's NICU. Science on trial have asked for figures under a freedom of information request presented them in a graph but not interpreted what they actually mean.
The yellow bar shows how many neonatal deaths per thousand live births for mothers living in West Cheshire, its a huge area and many of those babies will be born at other hospitals. The bar is less for 2015 and 2016 because there are more live births and only the babies who were resident in West Cheshire but died in Chester's NICU would be counted.Yes but the yellow ONS figures represent the area wide figures for all babies.
How can they be the same as a unit that does not take all the babies in the area, but only took about 1 in 7? Considering the unit had a much higher death rate for those years?
I don’t get it.
I get the yellow bar. Not the grey.The yellow bar shows how many neonatal deaths per thousand live births for mothers living in West Cheshire, its a huge area and many of those babies will be born at other hospitals. The bar is less for 2015 and 2016 because there are more live births and only the babies who were resident in West Cheshire but died in Chester's NICU would be counted.
Think the grey bar shows the ratio of neonatal deaths out of 1000 births born at the Countess of Chester. The grey bar shows the 2015/2016 spike in NNU deaths followed by a big fall after Lucy's removal.I get the yellow bar. Not the grey.
Eek, obviously statistics are not my strong point!Think the grey bar shows the ratio of neonatal deaths out of 1000 births born at the Countess of Chester. The grey bar shows the 2015/2016 spike in NNU deaths followed by a big fall after Lucy's removal.
I do know what you mean about the 13 deaths if it was out of 3000 live births it should be higher but it will depend on how many live births and which years they fall into.
Agreed, but if these deaths also include those that happened on the maternity unit…Post Lucy there have definitely been some years with no deaths on the unit. They’ve only had one death in 7 years since she was put on admin. I think there were some years with no deaths pre her arrival too but can’t remember for sure.
It's a confusing chart as the data is not comparible. They were trying to make the point with the yellow bar that because COCH was down graded to level one NICU that the babies were still receiving poor care but then transferred to die at another unit. The babies at each maternity unit are a mixture of in and out area babies so the grey and yellow bars don't necessarily show the same population or give any idea as to why that baby died.Eek, obviously statistics are not my strong point!
I was kind of forgetting that those figures included maternity at CoC and not just the unit, and that some of the babies died when they were past the 28 day neonate cut off.
So for some years there were no neonatal deaths at CoC, is that feasible? Unless there was a vast reduction in the number of babies born there.
Not in anyway a great chart if it’s supposed to illuminate what actually happened on a specific unit where what happened in maternity didn’t have much relevance.
Yip, I’ll keep away from statistics
Wow I’ve just read the first part of when the verdict came outCourt in general has been the weirdest, heartbreaking, yet interesting time.
There were so many odd things that happened mainly to do with LL’s mum, she had a massive argument with Jan one day shouting at her in the corridor shouting ‘you just stick up for them again then’ meaning the prosecutionshe used to be really nice to one of the court regulars, say hi etc to him, then got him into a corner and asked if he was LL’s friend, when he said no a law student she never spoke to him again except to moan at him once. She had a go at most people in court 8 at one point or another. Don’t get me wrong it must’ve been horrific for them but it did seem odd. She took photos of the press too and collared them if she wasn’t happy with what they’d written about her. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree and I can see where LL gets her narky side from im afraid.
In general, the police the crown prosecution etc have all been incredible, you couldn’t ask for a better team, I’m actually missing court days already. And made friends - how bizarre!
The babies families I have nothing but the hugest respect, the dignity, and strength they’ve shown is incredible. All I can say is you don’t know how strong you can be till strong is all you can be, they all seemed to lean on each other too which was lovely. It’s all for them
The verdicts jeez
I arrived about an hour after the first ones. I walked in and it just felt ‘off’ I had to be warned that anything I may hear cannot be repeated and that I’d be in contempt of court and possibly face a 2 year sentence hence why I came off here altogether. It was the strangest feeling. Happy for the right result for the insulin babies. But I was more in shock that after all that time they’d only reached 2 verdicts. We all thought it was going to be a longgggg wait. That’s why he offered them a majority verdict I think. At the same time we all thought that they’d done the hard part, they’d said someone was harming babies. They said it was her so with cross inference they should’ve followed. But nothing for 3 more days. Jammy Radnor blabbed on fb! I’ve never reported something as quick in my life, also heads up they have a social media team working 24/7 monitoring every single comment on here and fb and reddit etc etc
So Friday… I got the train with @O'lee but I needed my lunch so grabbed a sandwich and walked into court for 1pm start then he said he was going to ask for anymore verdicts my jaw must’ve been on the floor I wasn’t expecting it at all. I could barely breathe. The official said in an almost town crier voice ‘it’s been x hours and x minutes’ then asks them in order on count 1 have you reached a verdict then the Forman said yes or no, on the ones he said yes they then say on the count of the murder of Mickey Mouse do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty and they said guilty and honestly I was so tense, I realised after I was holding my hands so hard over my face I had left marks, it was relief scared, happy sad and everything inbetween there was 6 verdicts that day and they became a blur. 4 were murder 2 were attempted. After a couple of the verdicts there was this wailing crying guttural sobbing, it could be heard above everything else, I couldn’t tell who it was it was horrific, I was filling up in shock it was the most surreal horrific moment. LL left, so I knew the noise wasn’t her, the babies families left and then I realised it was LL’s mum. I left the courtroom as her mum left so I ran back in. It was awful we all split up needed some time for it to sink in and have a little moment. Apparently one of the babies parents put their fingers in their ears and walked out.
Afterwards I felt awful for them, that was their moment and instead of being about them it was all about LL’s mum. I get that she’s upset and horrified but she still has her daughter! Those poor babies families don’t!!! And they should’ve had their moment their justice…
It was horrific I don’t even have the words for how it felt like even though I went on the fence and then thought she was guilty it’s the finalness the fact like she really is a serial killer. I’ve sat and looked at this cold narky woman and she’s actually killed these babies. LL saw the first 2 lots of verdicts but then she didn’t come to any of the end of day court sessions only mornings. Judge asked BM about it he said he would find out. Then that was it the low life scum never ever came back out not even in the mornings! She hid in her cell with her comfort blankets and wouldn’t come up. The last power she had and she used it! She’s sick!
The week after there was more verdicts, I missed those first ones. On the Thursday they were asked again and gave 2 more verdicts and were asked if they thought they would be able to reach verdicts on the others and they thought ‘maybe’
Friday came and the video of her being arrested was leaked and it seemed suddenly tense and we were called in again, they were asked if they had anymore verdicts, they didn’t he asked them if given more time they could reach Verdicts and they said no, that was it… one heartbroken family ran out, that was the hardest part. All along I thought the Verdict would be a good job well done moment, but without answers for some it wasn’t… I wish they’d all got an ending, some closure, it was awful. I actually don’t understand with cross inference how they didn’t find all guilty’s if I’m honest and it felt cruel to the NG or no verdict parents. But that’s the law that’s how it works and I really do think they’ve done a thorough job.
That was it he let the jury go and thanked them and it ended. The press knew it was coming I had to get out I needed air it was horrifically sad the press were all filming already we waited around to hear what they had to say in the press conference and then we went to a cafe and talked for the first time in the open, it was hard not being able to offload even to family before then. We all pretty much felt the same glad for the right results in the guiltys but we couldn’t shake the sadness for the other families…
I went on holiday before sentencing, but cried my eyes out listening to the pod and watching the sentencing.
Even 2 weeks on I can’t get my head around it all, not sure I ever will. She seems so ‘normal’ from a distance.
I have no doubts there’ll be a part 2… it blows my mind that she actually exists, like she actually did it, like I knew she had from seeing and hearing her but actually seeing in person the true evil that she is is incomprehensible.
Taking her freedom isn’t enough. Those poor defenceless babies
Wow I’ve just read the first part of when the verdict came outyou guys people moan about tattle but honestly what a lovely community we’ve got here we all said we wanted to be there for verdict but we also would’ve liked to see how it all unfolded, someone mentioned her work colleagues saying the alarms always went off on her shifts I’ve not seen this anywhere, what else did they say? Is there anywhere to find it?
Thank you for your heroic attempts at trying to explain to me!It's a confusing chart as the data is not comparible. They were trying to make the point with the yellow bar that because COCH was down graded to level one NICU that the babies were still receiving poor care but then transferred to die at another unit. The babies at each maternity unit are a mixture of in and out area babies so the grey and yellow bars don't necessarily show the same population or give any idea as to why that baby died.
They are assuming that all the West Cheshire babies were born at the Countess but died in another unit thus showing a reduction in Chester's neonatal death rate. This won't actually be the case as many of those babies will have been born somewhere else. The Countess of Chester will care for babies from Wales and Merseyside if Lucy had killed an out of area baby it would show in the grey bar but not the yellow one.
Aww Thankyou
Thats the only bit I could find about staff concerned alarms going off, I think original was on sky news at the time.
The current staff have all been very quiet but I think they were told by the trust not to speak about it.
Not sure if I have said previously but thank you for your court reports was so informative, can’t believe the mother was shouting at Janet Cox after all she’s done to support them!
You reach a point where "the science on trial" people start to do your head in as everything they produce is just wrong and doesn't make sense. I understand some are probably kind people wanting to help but what would free Lucy is beyond them hopefully beyond everyone.Thank you for your heroic attempts at trying to explain to me!
I’m getting that the day a is incomplete so pretty useless in that format.
I usually avoid these things like the plague.
Yes they do. They’ve been really getting to me over the last week. Today I looked at their latest post & I thought, they are going over old ground & basic stuff that we’ve all discussed over the months & I came to the conclusion that they must think everyone is stupid, the jury, the prosecution, the defence, the judge, the witnesses, the police, the public, literally everyone. I’m sure that all the alternative medical reasons they are coming up with for babies deaths & collapses have been investigated & have been discounted by experts & I suspect that they are throwing much weight behind medical reasons that would have the tiniest chance of being correct. People like the Trump freak on twitter are just gaslighting bullies & after the radio interview Dick did with that awful Kate Shemirani, surely people won’t trust a word they sayYou reach a point where "the science on trial" people start to do your head in as everything they produce is just wrong and doesn't make sense. I understand some are probably kind people wanting to help but what would free Lucy is beyond them hopefully beyond everyone.
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