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F1Grid

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What do people think was her motive behind what she did?

I think it was jealousy, perhaps to not having a husband and children of her own. Maybe she knew she couldn’t have children?
The 'Lucy had a difficult birth and was grateful to the nurses who kept her alive and she's only ever wanted to be a nurse because of that' bit from her pal in the Panorama docu caught my attention.

I think her parents have probably banged on about these nurses for years and put them up on a pedestal for LL to reach. So she reached it, but she's a wrongun for whatever reason and that pedestal simply put her in prime position to kill.

Maybe she had some trauma as a kid that made her crave attention, be it positive or negative. Maybe she didn't, and she's just built that way. But there's something about her that's made to kill.
 
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calmyourritas

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I was here at the very beginning and had to dip out as it was really affecting my mental health. Too close to home.

I cried when I heard the verdict earlier. Like full on sobbed. Which I genuinely don’t think I’ve done for anything ever before. My heart aches for those poor babies, the poor families and all those other little ones and their families who haven’t got the justice they deserve.

My baby girl spent 16 days in NICU which were the worst most harrowing times of my life. The thought of leaving your baby at their most vulnerable with people you don’t actually know…. Yet you trust them. And I was a lucky one. My baby girl is sleeping in her cot next to me and wow I thank my lucky stars every single minute, I will never ever forget those horrendous times.

This story hasn’t been as “big” as I hoped. The only stories I see shared today are fellow NICU parents trying to explore their emotions. And I know there’s lots of us here so sending love to you all. And everyone else affected by this.

Holding my little one that little bit tighter tonight xxxxx
 
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abelleza

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I believe that the GMC are well known for being quick to blame and there was at least one case of a whistleblowing Doctor being struck off and never working again.
Imagine the doctors had been wrong or that the evidence wasnt substantial enough for prosecution at the time of their call, because they didn't have hindsight like we have now, Imagine they'd called the police without the backing of the execs. They could potentially be prosecuted for harassment at a minimum and there would have been problems & delays releasing redacted records without top backing.
They were gaslighted continually, people at the time were not backing them.
Would any professional risk never being able to help anyone ever again, renfering decades of education useless and being effectively totally unemployable for anything that needs a DBS by doing this?
Or would they keep plugging on trying to do things the proper way and keep trying to save lives, and just hope it would all come to light and you'd be exonerated?
Which option helps more people in the long run? It can only be the second one, which is what they did.
Yes doctors (and nurses) are regularly struck off/have their pin taken off them for whistleblowing. The nurse who whistleblew in the mid staffs inquiry still hasn’t been able to work as a nurse, despite trying.
 
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abelleza

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What are you talking about ? We know the police are corrupt - it is revealed in every single scrutiny panel. We know they rape, maim, and murder people. The London Metropolitan Police force have been declared institutionally corrupt and there's not a week goes by where another officer isn't revealed as being an abuser. So, sorry I'm no fan of the police here and I stand by my statement they are corrupt and often brutal and often criminals themselves. No love for the police here. If you are a fan of the police then we agree to disagree. It's a freaking miracle they managed to put this case together with no mistakes on their part - once something's in the hands of detectives, then it's great work.

To allege that the police have treated you badly is no biggie, as they may well have done. My point is that it bore no relation to LL's murder crimes when raised in court. Also prior to being corrected, my other point was that she was arrested three times but in court they only offered to play one video which (to me, didn't make sense) - that is the main issue I was addressing, that it didn't make sense on that grounds.

I don't feel ashamed and humiliated Why do you want to take pleasure in thinking I feel like that? You're sick.
I’m also no fan of the police as a whole but I don’t understand why you’re banging on about this when it’s really irrelevant and extremely disrespectful to the police investigators in this case, who actually did an amazing job and their hard work managed to secure a conviction. They deserve respect through and through and I don’t understand why you’re trying to act like they’ve done something wrong.
Of course there’s bad eggs in the police force, just like there’s bad eggs working in the NHS, but there’s also tons of hard-working and well meaning individuals who don’t deserve to be sullied by their shit colleagues.

Also this isn’t the metropolitan police, so that is completely irrelevant in this case.
 
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docmum

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I’m not sure if this has been shared before
But wow Dr Evans … dear God protect this man at all costs 🩷

this is amazing, thank you so much for sharing it. I really recommend everyone watching if you haven’t yet - it can be on and just listened to if you’re busy as it’s just an interview.

anyway, in summary it’s more reason to thank our lucky stars for Cheshire Police and Dr Dewi Evans. For the doubters, he took on the case as an independent expert but only agreed to take it on if they did not share any suspect names so that he could objectively review the notes - so she wasn’t a scapegoat whatsoever. He was given 30 sets of notes to review of deaths or serious illness over a given time period, and 15 (half 🤢) were found to have been suspicious. He immediately called out suspicions of air embolism. He said that the notes were incomplete, or filed out of order and that had to be sorted between him and the police - the NHS managers did not support his investigation at all.

Being thorough, they checked the siblings of any multips in the 15 he identified which is where the insulin babies were found to be harmed - I guess hence why their parents didn’t know about anything until 2 years later. Scary to think their names weren’t even considered at first, when possibly they secured the convictions for the babies with more circumstantial evidence.

One of those videos where you just can’t believe what you’re hearing but you feel so grateful for the persistence and intuition, the meticulous detail, the actual existence of these people. What a man Dr Evans is. But 15+2 babies harmed out of 30 serious incidents gives me a real sense of foreboding re the 4000 cases to come.
 
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LittleMy

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If I were in Dr. B or Dr. J’s position I’d be absolutely furious and sickened by it all. I’d be shouting it out loud for all to hear. They did everything they could to have her investigated and the shit they put up with, being forced to apologise and attend mediation with her is a disgrace. They deserve an apology too, at the very least, for not being believed by the upper management.
 
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F1Grid

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You can try and shame me but I don't accept your attempts thank you. The police are very capable of being corrupt, abusive, incompetent, and as dishonest as LL and the NHS management themselves. This comes out in every single report and scrutiny of the police so it's not a stretch to believe that on one arrest occasion they may have been less than perfect. If they did, that wouldn't have detracted in any way from LL's crimes.
Christ, why do people always pull this shit when they're proven wrong? The police are just as bad/The hospital are just as bad... I think fucking not.
 
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F1Grid

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So much this!! I didn’t fully understand the fear of the GMC until I married a consultant. The mere mention of a GMC investigation causes him untold amounts of stress… it isn’t a threat that should be thrown around the way it is. It’s clear to see from what has transpired that the consultants did absolutely everything within their power to stop her. Hospital execs failed these babies and they need to be held accountable too.
GMC are a bloody nightmare and we have to pay hundreds a year for the privilege. The whole laptop shite last year proves exactly what they’re like.

Other people talking about Dr Ravi - all trainees I’ve heard talk about him are glowing about him. The paeds department at Chester gets good reviews from trainees in general to be honest.

I was a manager in social care. I can imagine how much sympathy I'd be getting if it turned out that one of my care workers was murdering old people, I suspected them and my bosses told me to sign a letter of apology or they'd report me to the SSSC!!!

Judging by the comments here it's seems the GMC are a terrible organisation and that's why doctors were frightened. But FFS children died and people suspected.

So yes, I'm a weirdo for wanting Doctors to provide the best treatment to vulnerable patients.

Also the SSSC code of conduct would expect me to report suspected crimes to social work and/or the police. But then I'm an older women working in social care. Not a highly qualified Doctor with years of experience and a reputation to keep in tact.

And this story isn't over - LL's conviction is just the beginning.
So you’re a manager in a completely different organisation, and therefore have sweet fuck all idea of what actually it’s like on the ground.

What reputations do you think the doctors were keeping in tact, exactly? They’re all doctors in a small DGH with that doesn’t have significant research output. Gibbs was about to retire. Ravi does some TV work, but the others are not particularly well known in the area.

They wanted to self refer to police back in 2016 and were told to fuck off by the hospital, and as previous posters have said when someone did that with Shipman it got ignored by police as their managers didn’t back them and he got to keep going.

But by all means, keep chatting about shite you don’t understand. Standard manager playbook.
 
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Tofino

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I think a lot of people have underestimated how smart she is. Me included. She purposely has a clean history and close friends because that's the image she wants to show. It allows her to go undetected. She purposely did the attacks in such a way to ensure there was no pattern or direct evidence.

Everything she does is planned and calculated. Dr J when he said she made him come and apologise to her , that was her having the most fun.

I'm not being funny 99.9 percent of people would have left if their colleagues thought they were a serial killer and done an external complaint. She carried on as she wanted the consultants and even the ceo to bend to her will. She wanted the power and control over everyone.
I don’t doubt she’s manipulative but I think you are giving her a bit too much credit with just how clever she is. Certainly no more than Allitt or Shipman. She got caught at age 25? 26? And we know it should have been at least a year earlier had the trust not just ignored the consultants. We don’t know if they were taken in by her or if there was other stuff going on and they had other motives to just ignore what she was doing. The consultants caught on pretty quick that she was the common denominator. She didn’t have them fooled.

How long do they think Shipman was committing his crimes for before getting caught?
 
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DellaC

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You could see how much it’s affected Dr Breary on panorama last night. He looked like a broken man to me tbh and someone wanting change. Not like someone out to save themselves. I cried listening to him
I did too.

Particular at the end when he was asked if parents could trust that their babies will be safe at CoC. The pain etched on his face was heartbreaking to witness.

I hope he is OK 🙂
 
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Beigerac

Well-known member
Other thoughts.

I am a bit annoyed that she’s been so readily lumped in with Allitt and Shipman. To me she definitely thrives off attention but a lot of SKs generally are like that. It seems that the sadism is being glossed over and to me that’s still the driving factor. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that she’s seemingly never had a proper relationship. I don’t think it’s in her. I feel like old Nocods was as manipulated as everyone else and that’s why I can actually believe the possibility that there wasn’t a physical relationship there. I say possibility. From his end I don’t think he’d be that involved unless there was some kind of reciprocation from her.

But motive doesn’t really matter anymore. She’s done and that’s that.

I previously only had sympathy for her parents but that’s gone. Very bizarre comment from the mother. She reminds me of someone’s mother I used to know and I’ll leave it at that. Unless we hear more about them.

I can’t begin to articulate my anger at Rees and Chambers. What in the world was that all about with her father. He’s not a solicitor, he either flogs or installs radiators. Again I’m going to hold back but I knew that hoity toity posh act of hers was simply that, an act. But I tell you what, when they question Chambers the first question needs to be ‘did you know her father or have any connection?’ Because some old git who flogs radiators shouldn’t have even been allowed on the premises. So what was it all about. I think other posters might have nailed it. There’s something there. And this whole culture at the NHS with corporate types being in charge of everything has to fucking go. We need to know where our money is going. No corporate tosser should have more say than an actual doctor. That’s madness to me. I felt for Stephen B, I really did. That’s a good man who was bullied. Not seen Ravi’s interview yet but good on him. He’s launching a war that needs to happen and the doctors need to win.

I know i previously have talked about not judging books by covers but fuck all of that. Chambers looks like a particularly unsavoury owner of a strip joint. If you asked AI to produce a picture of the ultimate slimeball that’s what it’d come back with. Honestly something weird there. We’re hearing from posters that NHS HR wouldn’t have allowed Mr Radiator to storm in and have a bloody meeting so what’s going on there.
 
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Lucyxxxx

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Shipman did!!! I don't know if Fred West ticks the narc boxes but he had enough savvy to kill himself and let Rose face the music on her own.
Few pages behind but think I've mentioned it before my fella (not proud but has served double figures inside) said its a well known thing in the prison services that the screws hung Fred.
 
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abelleza

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@glasschelle you’ve blocked me so I can’t reply but hopefully you’ll see this. I have no rose tinted spectacles when it comes to the NHS, I despise the NHS and think there’s far too many over inflated egos and morons working in it, but these consultants aren’t that - they are educated and intelligent, and obviously truly care about the little babies in their care.
 
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Christina Yang's Shoe

Well-known member
This has just been put up on the Cheshire Police Facebook page::


Operation Hummingbird was launched following an increase in deaths and non-fatal collapses of vulnerable, new-born babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital. We're going to explain the timeline of the case, our investigation and how this led to the conviction of Lucy Letby in this post.

It’s going to be quite long and fairly detailed but hopefully you’ll find it informative and it may answer some of your questions.

We’ll make reference to images and videos that add context as we go by putting a number and description in brackets, like ‘(1 – arrest footage)’ for example – if you check the comments we’ll link the relevant media down there – sort them by most relevant and our comments should appear at or near the top.

What we won’t be doing is talking about Letby where we can avoid it. Enough will be written about her by others – our focus is and always has been the babies and families involved and to see justice done. Be warned that some of what we’ll discuss may be highly upsetting.

In early May 2017 we were contacted by The Countess of Chester Hospital Foundation Trust following concerns regarding a greater number of baby deaths and collapses between June 2015 and June 2016 than would normally be expected.

This led to us launching Operation Hummingbird. As time went on and further information came to light the scope widened and further cases were reviewed. Letby was formally identified as a suspect and on 3 July 2018 was arrested for the first time at her home in Chester. (1 – arrest footage)

As we continued our investigation she was later rearrested in June 2019 and again in Nov 2020. Across these three arrests almost 30 hours of video interviews were captured. This clip concerns notes she had made, which you may have seen reported at the start of the trial. (2 – interview footage)

We understand some may be confused why this story kept entering the media and reappearing, seemingly running for a very long time without action. Detective Superintendent Paul Hughes, Senior Investigating Officer in this case, sums it up well; “This has been a highly complex and extremely sensitive investigation over the past six years. We had to go right back to the start, keeping an open mind and being careful not to draw any conclusions. The last thing we expected to find was a suspect responsible for these deaths and non-fatal collapses. It was a long, drawn-out process but no stone was left unturned. We had to do it right – not rush it.”

We recognise the trial itself has also been exceptionally long – unlike most trials with maybe one victim, we’ve presented 17 separate investigations. Each one of those investigations concerning a tiny, vulnerable new-born baby.

Throughout the investigation the team worked to build a strong case for court. Endless files of evidence, thousands of pages of medical records, countless interviews and almost 250 people identified as witnesses by the prosecution to possibly give evidence – a mammoth task. (3 – notes recovered into evidence)

We also involved expert medical support where it was required, all with the aim of conducting as thorough an investigation as possible. Detective Superintendent Simon Blackwell, Strategic Lead for this investigation, said; “As the case unfolded, we had to enlist the help of multiple medical experts to ensure that we carried out as thorough an investigation as possible. There was a lot of complicated, medical evidence that needed examining. We are experienced detectives, not medical professionals, so we needed specialist advice and support... All of the medical experts were key to our case and we will forever be grateful for their assistance and the time and effort that they have given to supporting the investigation.”

Our case has also been strongly supported by a number of key partners over the years to which we are also very grateful including the Crown Prosecution Service, Prosecution Counsel, The National Crime Agency and colleagues from other forces.

This level of detail continued into the trial. Each case – again, a tiny vulnerable baby – opened with statements from parents followed by a walkthrough (prepared by our intelligence analysts) of what happened and when, who was around and what treatment was received. (4 – map of the Countess of Chester Hospital’s Neonatal Unit as it was, shown to the jury)

The jury was shown images and videos of the ward, medical equipment demonstrations, how procedures should be done and more – all to help provide context and the background to allow them to fully understand the case and the evidence presented. (5 – the start of a walkthrough of the ward, shown to the jury)

In July, after a 10-month trial, the jury began its deliberations. In total it took 110 hours to reach verdicts.

Lucy Letby was found guilty of seven counts of murder and seven counts of attempted murder at Manchester Crown Court on Friday 18 August. She will be sentenced at the same court on Monday (21 August). (6 – Lucy Letby’s ‘mugshot’)

We’ll have more to say on sentencing, but to return to the start of this post; ‘Our focus is and always has been the babies and families involved and to see justice done’

We hope this has helped to give you an insight into our investigation and demonstrates the utmost level of care, empathy and dedication involved.

If you have been affected by anything discussed there is support available – please visit https://www.cheshire.police.uk/poli...ut-us/operation-hummingbird/support-services/
 
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gigilouxx

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I think if the CPS go again on the attempted murder ones, they should probably add an alternative of a section 18 so at least these parents get something
3 charges of attempted murder for some, found guilty on 2 but not on another. How?! If she’s done 2 attempts she’s sure as shit done another one. My mind baffles
 
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F1Grid

VIP Member
It really is, imagine one of your last memories of your baby is their murderer bathing them right in front of you. There isn’t a word to describe it. 😢
The momentos they have of their babies were given to them by LL too. The locks of hair, the footprints, and in E's case she gave the twins a teddy... all from his murderer.
 
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gigilouxx

VIP Member
Just think about it
Imagine her face in that disciplinary, whilst doctors with now proven concerns had to apologise to her. Imagine her ringing her medieval dad to come in and protect her. All whilst babies passed away around her
I’d be more than fucked off, they’re not trying to save themselves, they’re showing the realities of being a whistleblower when dealing with someone who’s face fits
 
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od12839

Member
Imagine the consultants had phoned the police. The police pitch up to the ward, the hospital execs say that no it’s a vexatious complaint, the police don’t get full cooperation with their investigation. It is far better to have the hospitals buy in.
Was just typing something similar. It's dead easy to look at a big picture and say 'why didn't they do X' but at the time this takes place.... you're contacting the police to say that there's more deaths than usual in a neonatal ward. In a hospital. Where deaths are expected to happen. You think it's linked to one specific nurse, but you've got no proof and you haven't actually witnessed anything. 95% of her shifts are completely uneventful. She's worked the past 7 days and literally nothing has happened. Some of the babies that died were not even assigned to her.

How seriously are the police going to take you? How seriously are you going to take yourself? It took years of investigation and tens of thousands of pages of evidence to get her investigated and convicted. The registrars had what - a spike in deaths and a staff rota?
 
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Faith61

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The GMC investigation process is utterly vile to the point that people kill themselves during it. There is a significant racism problem within the GMC as well, so Dr Ravi in particular was at risk.

Imagine the consultants had phoned the police. The police pitch up to the ward, the hospital execs say that no it’s a vexatious complaint, the police don’t get full cooperation with their investigation. It is far better to have the hospitals buy in.

And on top, to blame the consultants of this is fucking disgusting of you. Fucking weirdo.
Thankyou....I was furiously trying to type a response.
Dr J and Breary, appear broken, it kills me to watch them and I'm in awe of how they've have spoken with dignity and courage and thank god they have now had the opportunity to do so.😪

*ETA and throughout all this have had to carry on doing their job/ what that piece of scum should have been doing, caring for precious babies and their families*
FU LETBY, I'M SO ANGRY AND SAD💔😡
 
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AmeliaPevensie

Well-known member
"The review, which is being made public for the first time, states: “LL works full time and has the qualification in speciality. She is therefore more likely to be looking after the sickest infant on the unit. LL also avails herself to work overtime when the acuity or unit is over capacity.

“There are no performance management issues, and there are no members of staff that have complained to me or others regarding her performance. I have found LL to be diligent and have excellent standards within the clinical area.”

It goes on to state that there had been a higher death rate on the unit in the year to May 2016 but blamed other NHS services for a number of the mortalities: “The Cheshire and Mersey transport service have been involved in a few of these mortalities and they may have survived if the service was running adequately. Alder Hey children’s hospital’s failure in facilitating a cot also added to the complexities of these mortalities. If there had been a bed sooner the infant may not have died.”

Fucking hell. How on earth did she manage to get so many people on her side?
 
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