Lucy Letby Case #6

[avabella]

I feel like there will be people (just generally speaking, not accusing anyone here) who will say ‘well the babies were really poorly anyway’ as if that means that’s the only explanation for the babies dying/collapsing. Even the defence suggested it on some of the children. And I think this is really unfair to the babies and the families when we are going to hear how unexpected and unusual it was and likely hear from multiple medical experts why this is. The sickest babies could still have been murdered. But they deserve to have other possible causes considered and not just ‘written off’ as being sick and premature.

Seeing as I wrote something almost identical (without the 'anyway', which is very insulting), then I'll explain - I would in no way write a baby off 'just' because they were sick and premature.

I think there's a real miscommunication in the way the babies are being described in my opinion - they are said to be doing 'well' and stable etc, but to someone who hasn't had any preemie experience, the picture they may have in their head is of a chunky newborn baby, and so a dramatic downturn would sound really surprising. A tiny tiny 1lb baby can go downhill so incredibly quickly for a number of reasons even if they were previously 'doing well'.

Therefore, a baby who was seen to be 'stable' and 'doing well' on an extremely busy unit with low staffing, who hadn't had its temperature taken or recorded for hours, could theoretically crash 'unexpectedly'.

Edited to add: I am very sorry if anyone did think any comment of mine was dismissive of a baby. Pregnancy/childbirth/babies are such a bloody miracle and to have something come along to threaten that is the scariest thing in the world.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

What the poster means there seems to be a huge escalation. LL worked at COCH since she qualified in 2012 no incidents until she went on a mad killing spree in June 2015 until June 2016. There seems to be no issues about her conduct at uni or at work. What happened? She does not fit the profile of a serial killer there's no MO or pattern . Harold Shipman had been killing for years and years he killed older women with a massive overdose of morphine. I believe he wanted to get caught as he was caught when one of the wills were changed of his victims. He was a clever man with an established MO.

How do we know there were no incidents until
2015? Maybe she dipped her toe in the water before then.
Harold Shipman is believed to have started killing his estimated 250 victims very early in his medical career. 80% were elderly woman but 20% were not. I believe he just got careless, he’d gotten away with it for so long.
There was a 7 year gap between Jeffrey Dahmers 1st victim and his 2nd, then he spiralled out of control.
She can switch up her MO, Beverly Allitt did.
I can't see why this particular person can’t be a serial killer? Does any of us really know her?
I’m not saying she is I’m saying it’s certainly not inconceivable.
They’re not all, necessarily, pressed from the same mould.

 

[Tofino]

I’ve been reading the RCPCH report when they reviewed the neonatal unit and loads of really concerning things in it. View attachment 1653030

So the unit operating with only 21% staffing levels has been misconstrued then. It was a 21% shortfall. So relatively speaking that’s having 8 members of staff when you need 10. Or 16 when you need 20. Obviously not great still but nowhere near the same as having 2 staff members when you need 10.

 

[Parsnipface]

I said in earlier thread, I've heard through what's essentially rumors, I've no proof or reliable source, but I've heard it said people knew what she was doing quite soon into her doing it, but they couldn't accuse her without proof and the staffs hands were tied.

Now we can pick that apart to pieces, but the reality is, it's hear say and unless somebody at trial says similar it's bollocks. But imagine if you did know, we all think, "I'd so XYZ" but what do you do really? Fuck up your career by not going through the correct channels, end up in jail yourself for hurting her?

I believe she did it however I'm going off gut instinct or hunch, because I think she seems likely a lovely studenty type, probably chat in the loos about what lipstick she's wearing or something.
Nothing "bad vibes" about her from me, I'm basing this on liklihood and I think it's more likely she killed and attempted to kill those babies than the liklihood of such a huge amount of unexpected deaths, of her being present for every single one.

When I've read your discussions, (trying to keep up) I see what you mean about the scapegoating. The police force close ranks and the NHS are definitely not above throwing her under the bus to save their own ineptitude, but do I believe that the police, NHS and cps are working in harmony to implicate one individual?
I don't think they're capable of such organisation within their own lanes, let alone joining forces.

Also, the scapegoating theory requires many many people to to be in on a massive secret, that in itself is so unlikely. People will only keep quiet to protect themselves, not others.

Soz that was dead fuckin long, got my nephew twatting me, sat on my knee asking for my phone so I got out as much as I could!

 

[stardust1]

@avabella you are aware the hospital can be negligent AND Lucy be a murderer at the same time? It doesn’t just have to be one or the other. In fact you could argue Lucy knew the hospital being negligent/under staffed meant she could actually carry out what she is accused of much easier effectively using this to her advantage. The trust is not on trial here Lucy is. Regardless of what the hospital did or didn’t do if she has murdered them then she has murdered them

 

[MmmB777]

The defence haven’t actually said that I don’t think. They are saying she wasn’t there when the second bag was replaced but not sure that rules her out as the medical expert is saying the giving set could have been contaminated by the original bag. And because the problems started with the original bag it must have been that which was contaminated.

And the second one they aren’t even denying she was involved, just that there was an issue with the paperwork??
The concerning thing here is, it’s seems they have very strong evidence that this was a deliberate act. Defence haven’t offered up a natural explanation like he has with air embolus. So if it wasn’t Lucy, then who was it?

also worth repeating that there were two sets of twins where one from each twin had insulin poisoning and the other from each twin had air embolus. It’s very hard for me to accept that it’s just a coincidence. Especially when insulin poisoning is probably going to be proved beyond reasonable doubt (whether it was Lucy or someone else)

View attachment 1652871

Wow wow wow. Incredible work there. I hadn’t realised that’s two sets of twins (within triplets) with one of each being killed in the same way. Jesus Christ. Statistical chances must be… this is absolutely insane. I’m not going to say what I want to say but it involves a key and throwing it away.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Let’s just move on now anyway because at the end of the day there have been several mod warnings on the LL threads already and if people continue sniping at each other over differences of opinion, arguments will continue to break out and the thread will just end up getting locked.
I know this is an emotional trial and there will be a lot of strong feelings, but I personally find these threads very interesting and have learned a lot over the past few days, so it’d be real a shame if they got banned because people couldn’t just politely disagree with each other and move on lmao.

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

Just wanted to take a moment to remember all the babies lost and taken too soon #waveoflight

 

[RattyBumBum]

If she’s found guilty. There must have been previous victims. You don’t just walk on a shit and 18 minutes later decide to kill a child for the first time.

I’ve always been in the guilty camp and I think the funding of operation hummingbird is to then look further back after she’s convicted.

 

[Dizzy]

It says a nurse advised the mother to get some rest? Why is it OK when another nurse does it but Lucy does it its something sinister? Hmmmm.

Because she’s the one on trial for murder and attempted murder?

 

[Lackofimagination]

If she gets away with this I will honestly sob for those parents. It’s too coincidental for me. And yes before anyone says I’d be terrible on jury duty I absolutely would because I’m convinced she’s guilty.

 

[I’mThankyou_]

I sorta think maybe the thread should be locked.
It's feels quite disrespectful to the babies and families at times. This is a live murder trial of 7 precious babies but I feel some people view it as entertainment.

I don’t think anyone views it as entertainment.
It's an emotive topic, many of us (myself included) have shared our experiences which can be comforting to know the thoughts you've experienced your not alone with.
I just think people need to learn to respect others opinions and utilise the ignore button. Other than that people are learning alot and learning how other people understand and relay things, which can be useful on the thread and be practiced in real life. We are all human, we all see and experience things differently and it's good to see other people's perspectives and insights.
From what I've seen online, this thread is timid compared to some discussions.

 

[LittleMy]

It was so hard reading the mother’s statement. My son was 2 weeks overdue and I had to have an em/cs under general anaesthetic. I had developed sepsis while in labour and he was struggling, his oxygen levels were low. When he was born he wasn’t breathing and he’d swallowed meconium. He had to be resuscitated and he spent some time in NICU (just very briefly luckily for us). We were both being treated for infection/sepsis. It was a very traumatic time but at least I got to hold him and bring him home. It just brings it all back. That poor mother, no wonder she’s extra protective of the other child

 

[friedeggontoast]

Much agreement with this. Clearly a lot of people do believe the narrative of a failing hospital scape goating her too🫣

I just can’t fathom how a hospital would rather be seen to have a child killer in their staff instead of just accepting they were failing and make changes to fix it!

 

[stardust1]

I feel like there will be people (just generally speaking, not accusing anyone here) who will say ‘well the babies were really poorly anyway’ as if that means that’s the only explanation for the babies dying/collapsing. Even the defence suggested it on some of the children. And I think this is really unfair to the babies and the families when we are going to hear how unexpected and unusual it was and likely hear from multiple medical experts why this is. The sickest babies could still have been murdered. But they deserve to have other possible causes considered and not just ‘written off’ as being sick and premature.

as someone who had a poorly baby in NICU your point is absolutely lovely to read. I’d have hated him to be written off because he was ill. If them being ill and in the NICU meant a death sentence then they’d have all died but the fact is so many babies will come home from NICU and will get better so it absolutely deserves to be thoroughly investigated.

 

[Dexy]

I’m thinking about those families and little lives lost tonight more than ever.

 

[Lackofimagination]

On this thread at the moment the amount of messages I want to reply the Reaction too but I get absolutely terrified I’m going to do the instead it’s like a second of panic every time.

 

[Borntorun]

On the flip side - why would they move someone to dayshift when they suspected a higher number of babies dying in their care? That makes 0 sense to me.

I wrote a big long answer to this on the last thread, but the tl;dr answer is, it’s a typical nhs thing to do if you suspect competence issues. More staff around in the day time to help with supervision / further training

 

[Windowtothewall]

I think confusion is because the night shift carries on into the morning. It is 8-8 shift.

Baby A was born 8 June. LL started her shift at 8pm on 8 June and baby A collapsed on 8 June 8.16pm. Died at 8.58 pm (during LL's shift just after she gave her fluids)
Baby B was born 8 June. LL started her shift on at 8pm on 9th June, baby B collapsed at 12.33am 10 June after LL did his feed at 12am (she was not designated nurse, but doing blood gases and IV feed)

In both cases, they collapsed/died about 15-30 mins after she fed them or did blood gases.

 

[Parsnipface]

I think the problem we have as humans, we've all seen witch-hunts and scapegoating and bullying.
From nurses to cashiers, we have a culture of "if your face don't fit" and it's fucking shite. I have been that person who's face never fit. (Initially everyone was fine with me, then I mentioned my partner is also female and things changed rapidly) but even those situations, even with workplace bullying, could anyone live with themselves letting someone who had seemingly dedicated their life to helping babies, be then known as a serial killer of baby's?
Every way you look at this case, it's just fucking abhorrent and my heart is with those parents and families more than ever