Lucy Letby Case #43

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12:44pm

The judge says Prof Arthurs said there was no evidence on the radiograph image for Child E of an air embolus, but that did not exclude it may have happened.

He said there were no features of NEC on the x-ray.

Professor Sally Kinsey said Child E did not have a blood clotting problem.

Dr Evans said Child E was "incredibly stable", at increased risk of NEC, but suitable treated.

He said if a baby had NEC, they would become "gradually unwell" and Child E would not have coped with handling in any way, and have a distended abdomen, along with other observations.

He said NEC was not a viable explanation.

He said there was a significant haemorrhage and something must have caused this.

He noted the 'unusual' discolouration, which prior to this case he had only seen in literature as evidence of an air embolus.

He said there must have been some sort of trauma caused by a piece of equipment, such as an introducer.

He said there was no "innocent explanation" for it.

He said he has never seen an ulcer cause this type of bleed.

He said the haemhorrhage was caused by trauma.

Dr Bohin says she formed her opinion on the case, and refuted 'going along' with Dr Evans' conclusions.

She said the decision not to hold a post-mortem examination was "a poor decision".

Dr Bohin said babies with NEC do not go from being well one minute to very unwell the next.

The 16ml aspirate before the 9pm feed "struck her" as being odd, and did not match Child E's clinical picture at that point, and was "at a loss" to describe where that had come from.

She said the NGT insertion can sometimes cause "very minor bleeding" in a baby, but not a haemhorrhage.

The blood vomit was "an extremely unusual feature".

Dr Bohin had never seen a baby have a gastric haemhorrhage in this way, the court is told.

She believed Child E died of an air embolus
 
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"Letby said there was a 'purple block' on the abdomen for Child E at 11.40pm. She said it was not like Dr Harkness had described. She said she found Child E's death "very traumatic", and filed a Datix form. She said the medical team were late administering a blood transfusion."

So where's this Datix form then? Just like child A (or was it C), where she apparently asked for the TPN bag to be left for investigation but there's no evidence of this request and no one remembers her asking for it, and she herself never referred to it in any of her millions of messages discussing patients...For someone so conscientious you think she'd be chasing people for a response or at least raising it with her colleagues/shift leader etc.
 
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12:44pm

The judge says Prof Arthurs said there was no evidence on the radiograph image for Child E of an air embolus, but that did not exclude it may have happened.

He said there were no features of NEC on the x-ray.

Professor Sally Kinsey said Child E did not have a blood clotting problem.

Dr Evans said Child E was "incredibly stable", at increased risk of NEC, but suitable treated.

He said if a baby had NEC, they would become "gradually unwell" and Child E would not have coped with handling in any way, and have a distended abdomen, along with other observations.

He said NEC was not a viable explanation.

He said there was a significant haemorrhage and something must have caused this.

He noted the 'unusual' discolouration, which prior to this case he had only seen in literature as evidence of an air embolus.

He said there must have been some sort of trauma caused by a piece of equipment, such as an introducer.

He said there was no "innocent explanation" for it.

He said he has never seen an ulcer cause this type of bleed.

He said the haemhorrhage was caused by trauma.

Dr Bohin says she formed her opinion on the case, and refuted 'going along' with Dr Evans' conclusions.

She said the decision not to hold a post-mortem examination was "a poor decision".

Dr Bohin said babies with NEC do not go from being well one minute to very unwell the next.

The 16ml aspirate before the 9pm feed "struck her" as being odd, and did not match Child E's clinical picture at that point, and was "at a loss" to describe where that had come from.

She said the NGT insertion can sometimes cause "very minor bleeding" in a baby, but not a haemhorrhage.

The blood vomit was "an extremely unusual feature".

Dr Bohin had never seen a baby have a gastric haemhorrhage in this way, the court is told.

She believed Child E died of an air embolus
It's so hard to read what these babies went through :cry:
 
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The hard faced little bleep has been lying about poor baby E’s mum for so long now. Poor poor woman must be so frustrated and fed up.
 
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Baby E’s mummy if you ever read please know we all believe you and never doubted a single detail, you and baby E are in our hearts 🩷🩷 (along with the other angels) x
 
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12:53pm

The judge refers to the case of Child F.

On July 31, 2015, Child F was given a dose of insulin to treat high blood sugar levels, and he stabilised.

On the day of August 3, other than a minor respiratory issue when Child F was taken off CPAP, all was well, and he was tolerating feeds.

The prosecution allege Child F was given insulin via a nutrition bag hung up on August 4-5, and that the next bag hung up at noon on August 5, a stock bag from the fridge, had a similar amount of insulin put in it.

The jury is reminded of the relationship between insulin and insulin c-peptide levels, naturally occurring in the body, and the relationship between those two in synthetic insulin.

The defence say the proof is on the prosecution, that the jury must be sure that Child F and Child L received synthetic insulin, and that it was Letby who administered that.

They ask if Letby was intent on harming Child F, why she did not attack that baby on subsequent shifts.
 
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"She said it was something for her to remember, as was a photo of her shift pattern."

Have we heard that she took a photo of her shift pattern? I get why one may take a photo of their rota so they have it close to hand, but the way Goss has worded it makes it sound like she took the photo of her shift pattern as another 'trophy' alongside the card
 
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Letby said in police interview, she could not recall the events with Child E's mother, and could not remember any specific bleed.


She said she found Child E's death "very traumatic", and filed a Datix form.

Make your mind up Letby...was it traumatic or
" do you not recall"?😡

And as for who bathed the baby...I'm sure that particular event will stay with the parents for ever...so I know who I believe😭
That bathing the baby incident is without question the most sickening aspect of the case. Absolutely disgusting. It’s stuff like that that makes you think this is more than munchausens or hatred. Overlooking the cemetery with the handover notes too. There really are ‘no words’.
 
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I’d have exploded and caused a major bleeping scene if I was Lisa. I’d have probably had to be restrained to be honest, 1. chastising a collegue for asking for help 2. The condescending way she did it.

Even if it was all under control why is she acting like Lisa Walker’s natural instinct to call for additional support is out of order it’s what you would do/want - surely she should be praising her not the opposite.
and rightfully so. From the lay person in the street up to consultant, basic life support teaches you to always scream for/call for help if you come across a problem with anyone being unwell or unresponsive. It’s literally a reflex for me now, even if I came across someone responsive but unwell unexpectedly, I’d always alert someone near me so that you have someone to call 999 or speak to others. Professionally you can’t go wrong with asking for help too, it’s actually the opposite of a red flag to discuss something with a colleague because any of us can be so tired or overloaded with work that you are blinkered and miss something obvious.
 
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The vigour of this trunk gyration GIF is making me seasick ! 😵💫 What with that and Lucifer’s eyes everywhere this morning, the thread needs a trigger warning 😂or a bucket of cold water 💦
makes me think of a chipolata now, poor bloke
 
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"She said it was something for her to remember, as was a photo of her shift pattern."

Have we heard that she took a photo of her shift pattern? I get why one may take a photo of their rota so they have it close to hand, but the way Goss has worded it makes it sound like she took the photo of her shift pattern as another 'trophy' alongside the card
I noticed this too. I don’t remember hearing anything about that, I wonder what it’s about 🤔
 
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12:30pm

The judge says Dr David Harkness noted, at 11.40pm, Child E had a desaturation, with colour changes on the abdomen - "a strange pattern over the tummy which didn't fit with poor perfusion"

The legs and upper arms were 'pink in normal colour'. he said the only other time he had seen this was with Child A, and not since.

The patches were 1-2cm big, and he carried out an emergency intubation.

Letby said there was a 'purple block' on the abdomen for Child E at 11.40pm.

She said it was not like Dr Harkness had described.

She said she found Child E's death "very traumatic", and filed a Datix form.

She said the medical team were late administering a blood transfusion.

The defence challenged the decision not to give a blood transfusion earlier.

A doctor had said she did not believe the collapse was due to blood loss, and that blood transfusion had its risks.

She said she did not believe, "even with hindsight", Child E should have had a blood transfusion at that point.

The mother had contact with Letby after Child E died.

She said Letby bathed Child E.

In Letby's evidence, she said the parents bathed Child E.

A doctor said at the time, she believed Child E had died of NEC, and that a post-mortem examination would not tell the parents any more, and would delay their transfer back home.

She had said NEC was the most likely cause of the gastro-intestinal bleed.

No post-mortem examination was carried out.

She completely agreed, that with hindsight, she should have requested a post-mortem examination.

She apologised to the parents for not pushing for that, having wanted to avoid further distress for them.

Letby said in messaging with Jennifer Jones-Key, in response to the unit being 'on a terrible run', that Child E had a haemhorrhage, and could have happened to anyone.

She said the searches for the parents of Child E and Child F more than once on Facebook was part of a normal pattern of behaviour for her, as was taking a picture of the card for the parents.

She said it was something for her to remember, as was a photo of her shift pattern.
Hi everyone, yet another newbie here.

Thanks for your warm welcome to the newbie invasion.

Preliminaries are I think she is guilty as sin and I think Tattle (and definitely this group) is a breath of fresh air in terms of intelligent discourse and empathy for the babies and parents in this trial. The support you show each other and the well needed dose of humour thrown in for light relief are the icing on the cake. I started on Websleuths and dip into Reddit but Tattle is my home.

I wanted to comment on the BIB in the post above. Does it strike you as odd that LL does not have any curiosity about the collapses or deaths. I know some people are naturally lacking in curiosity / imagination but this coupled with bizarre comments about it being fate, meant to be, could happen to anyone just strike me as completely at odds with someone who is curious enough to search for parents of babies on Facebook.

Is she curious or not?
 
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1:01pm

A new TPN [fluid nutrition] bag was hung at 12.25am on August 5 for Child F.

Yvonne Griffiths said the fridge contains stock bags for Babiven and start-up Babiven, and insulin.

That fridge was kept locked, with one set of keys, initially in the hands of the shift leader but available on request.

There was no system for signing the keys in or out.

Child F was the only baby on that night shift of August 4-5 who was receiving TPN.
 
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"She said it was something for her to remember, as was a photo of her shift pattern."

Have we heard that she took a photo of her shift pattern? I get why one may take a photo of their rota so they have it close to hand, but the way Goss has worded it makes it sound like she took the photo of her shift pattern as another 'trophy' alongside the card
Me neither...there's a few things popping up, that I don't recall hearing about before, this is weird 🤔
Man's spilling some beans today ❤
 
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Hi everyone, yet another newbie here.

Thanks for your warm welcome to the newbie invasion.

Preliminaries are I think she is guilty as sin and I think Tattle (and definitely this group) is a breath of fresh air in terms of intelligent discourse and empathy for the babies and parents in this trial. The support you show each other and the well needed dose of humour thrown in for light relief are the icing on the cake. I started on Websleuths and dip into Reddit but Tattle is my home.

I wanted to comment on the BIB in the post above. Does it strike you as odd that LL does not have any curiosity about the collapses or deaths. I know some people are naturally lacking in curiosity / imagination but this coupled with bizarre comments about it being fate, meant to be, could happen to anyone just strike me as completely at odds with someone who is curious enough to search for parents of babies on Facebook.

Is she curious or not?
My personal opinion is that she’s so dismissive of any further discussion into the cause of death is because 1) she already knows what killed them (her)
2) any discussion of what the duck was going on in that unit would no doubt lead to “what if it’s someone on the ward” then the can of worms of evidence against her would be uncovered. She didn’t want that

Like who in the right mind would be so detached about all these sudden random deaths, she makes herself look guilty as sin just by how she refuses to even engage in further conversation about what’s going on in the allegedly failing and understaffed unit
 
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