The judge summing up is already impressive. It must be quite a challenge for a complex case where he’s heard all the evidence for the first time alongside the jury. He’s also had to piece together ‘this is what the prosecution say’ and ‘this is what the defence say’ when the evidence has been months apart.
- Notice
Wellthisisinteresting
VIP Member
Who opened the gates to all the newbies 
Bloody big welcome to you all, so glad you can all finally comment and vote
xx
Bloody big welcome to you all, so glad you can all finally comment and vote
xx
Cack_Conroe
Well-known member
Have you got screenshots? Was it the same girl who said she was in her sister's year at school?
This is really interesting about the schoolwork sabotage. I noticed that her spelling is not good, which on its own doesn't indicate academic ability, as some people are dyslexic, or just not good at it. But the poor quality of her lies under cross-examination showed her to be not very intelligent, despite how articulate she appears. Makes me wonder if academic ability is a sore point for her. I wonder if she has always felt herself mentally superior to others but is ashamed of her unremarkable intellect, and gets her kicks from tricking and manipulating others to feel clever instead.
My view of her psychology, similar to @Beigerac (great name btw) is that she has a combination of severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Anti-Social Personality Disorder (aka psychopathy) which in my opinion is the very dangerous combination that can make a serial killer. She is also clearly jealous and bitchy, which comes across in her interactions with other staff. An anonymous nurse who was described in court as her best friend seemed bitchy too, in texts that didn't make the reporting. Sadly, Lucy doesn't seem bulliable at all to me, so I think she'll be ok inside after the media storm wears off. She'll have the staff wrapped round her little finger and keep playing the victim.
I was not getting Munchausen vibes, because despite the needle stick "fainting" and attention seeking, I don't think she likes to look weak. I used to think the attention seeking was very much in the background to her primary motivations of sadism, power, thrill-seeking, and feeling of intellectual superiority (from tricking parents and doctors). But this info, if true, has changed my mind a bit. I still don't think she's at the level of having actual Munchausen's, but the attention-seeking might be more prominent than I thought.
Her brain must be a soup of seething hatred, resentment, entitlement, jealousy, grandiosity, bitterness, spite and cruelty. Imagine being so embittered when by her mid-20's she had a degree, a successful career, was a home owner, had a good social life and was considered attractive.
I also think she has been like this her whole conscious life, and nothing "triggered" her. Maybe something motivated her to finally cross the line into murder, but I think she's had these sick fantasies for a very long time, and probably trained to be a children's nurse specifically to hurt babies, plus having the respectability and status that she craves. She likely started off by hurting or sabotaging them in less major ways (like the heel-sticking torture that's been spoken of, and plunging feeds in), and eventually progressed to murder. It was probably a case of plucking up the "courage" for want of a better word, and getting herself comfortable. She probably built up by sabotaging the care of babies without the specific aim of killing them, just to see what would happen. I also think she might have finished off babies who were already naturally dying as practice. Then when she finally took control and played God by committing murder, it was addictive.
She caused chaos in the ward - making the medication calculation sheet go missing, the "accidental" phone call to babies A and B's parents while Baby D was dying, the not getting the camera in time. I bet she was the cause of some of the plumbing problems - one of them was from a wipe being shoved down the sink. There's a saying, when the cat and dog are fighting, the mouse runs free. So she causes chaos so she can sneak around undetected. I bet she has been doing that for a very long time.
My impression of her parents - from what I read, not what I briefly saw in person - is that they believe their perfect baby is innocent, but they know she's going down. I strongly suspect that Lucy was heavily spoiled as a child, especially emotionally rather than materially. Probably someone who grew up to believe nothing was ever her fault and everyone else was nasty and jealous.
Me-rail - I was very gifted as a child (in reality, I was just an early developer mentally), and my dad would not stop boasting about me, and making me feel better than everyone else. He would judge and dismiss my friends behind their backs, and boast about my supposed abilities to everyone he met - this was literally when I was toddler to primary-school age. I had a real nasty streak as a child, thought I was better than everyone and was consumed with jealousy about others' achievements, and was really horrible until the age of about 15. I imagine Lucy to be like this x 1000, and never maturing out of it.
Caledonianprincess
VIP Member
Posted as the last thread locked. How is everyone feeling now the verdict is so close to coming? I'm praying for a guilty verdict for all the families so they can get justice.
I don't know how much I'll be able to follow today as in a and e with mini Caledonian as he's not putting on weight as he should despite constantly feeding and he's very sleepy so much so I'm struggling to wake him for feeds (13 yesterday and had to wake him for 9 of them
)
I don't know how much I'll be able to follow today as in a and e with mini Caledonian as he's not putting on weight as he should despite constantly feeding and he's very sleepy so much so I'm struggling to wake him for feeds (13 yesterday and had to wake him for 9 of them
)
Wellthisisinteresting
VIP Member
Baby E’s mummy if you ever read here please know we all believe you and never doubted a single detail, you and baby E are in our hearts 🩷🩷 (along with the other angels) x
Last edited:
KatieMorag
Well-known member
Dragged her little heels (in her matalan shoes no doubt) getting that camera didn't she. 
On another note - thanks for the warm welcome. I'm genuinely grateful to be able to talk about this at last. It's been on my mind a lot and my very chilled husband while agreeing she's guilty doesn't actually want to analyse each individual sentence of testimony for some reason.
On another note - thanks for the warm welcome. I'm genuinely grateful to be able to talk about this at last. It's been on my mind a lot and my very chilled husband while agreeing she's guilty doesn't actually want to analyse each individual sentence of testimony for some reason.
KatieMorag
Well-known member
Actual footage of Lucy Letby going to get the camera.
nosycowmoo
Well-known member
2 things that stood out the most today, she should never have taken the stand if she wanted to get off with it and 2 Wowzers I’ve not read the write up but in person it was overwhelmingly prosecution heavy, obviously he said some of the defence but with no defence witnesses to quote it didn’t bode well. It was a really good sum up it really brought it all together. Note to self though- more caffeine needed! I listen to everything sped up usually so it’s been hard to concentrate for sooo long. All in all much better start to the week and the atmosphere in general was sooooo much better today! Phew
---
---
I imagine there’s people just waiting to sell their story and spill all
DellaC
VIP Member
Ahhhh beautiful news. Congratulations.
I've wrote you a poem.
Her name may be shitty but she's very pretty and her fella can't stop giving her wood,
So the inevitable has happened our Lucyxxx is actually up the duff!
sleeplessinwebland
Well-known member
Hello! Newbie here, been reading the last lot of threads and have cast my guilty vote.
Answering your questions I’m not ginger, Turkish delight is gross and I do not own a matalan card
Answering your questions I’m not ginger, Turkish delight is gross and I do not own a matalan card
Attachments
Some other thoughts I’ve had on the case.
Motive was discussed in depth a while ago and whilst everyone was pretty much on the money for likely personality disorders, I think that’s different to motive. She almost certainly is a psychopath/sociopath and narcissist. But then every serial killer is. If you want to confront the idea of the ultimate narcissist, look no further than Nilsen. There’s enough of his grandiose nonsense online, and then there’s also a bloody autobiography out there. And by definition, these people are definitely psychopaths because if you had any regard for other people you wouldn’t go around killing them.
But the world is full of people who are narcissists and the world is full of people who lack empathy to the degree that they could be classed as psychopaths. I’d wager that very very few of them would or could kill another person because, although they might lack certain human traits, they still know right from wrong. I mean, look at politicians. Not all, but quite a lot. These people obviously lack empathy but would they murder someone? Of course not.
So, as I see it, motive would be one of three things. The first is the old munchausen’s/hero complex. I may be contradicting what I’ve said because that’s another personality disorder. But if we look at Aunt Bev, it translated into a desire for attention at any cost. Certainly Letby is obsessed with attention. In most of her photos she’s doing something to try and get all the attention, and then there’s the text messages. But I can’t see it being the sole driver here. Not unless we’re subjected to anecdotes of her baking her own turds in the oven like Bev. I may be wrong but I think even Letby would think that behaviour as being weird.
Then you’ve got the hate and jealousy element. It’s almost certainly a factor. She seems to be jealous of everyone but what started this? Is that FB post about not being able to have kids true? We don’t know but it would certainly hold weight. I really want to know about her growing up. Was she bullied? Did she pick on people who reminded her of those she’d felt slighted by? I think that if there’s any truth to that, and I think there might be, we will hear all about it down the line.
Finally, and gruesomely, you’ve got the whole thrill element. Most serial killers are sexually driven which is likely why they need to keep on doing it. What makes me think this is a likely explanation is the sadism. We’ve seen a FB post about a baby getting scars from repeated needle pricks. It’s utterly stomach churning but I feel she was hurting babies long before killing them.
So in my view, motive is all of the above, and we’re dealing with depravity on a horrendous scale.
Anyway, just to finish on a lighter note, I wonder what became of old Dr Noname. At very least I bet his wife chopped off his Cockington and planted it up his pretty flowerbed.
Motive was discussed in depth a while ago and whilst everyone was pretty much on the money for likely personality disorders, I think that’s different to motive. She almost certainly is a psychopath/sociopath and narcissist. But then every serial killer is. If you want to confront the idea of the ultimate narcissist, look no further than Nilsen. There’s enough of his grandiose nonsense online, and then there’s also a bloody autobiography out there. And by definition, these people are definitely psychopaths because if you had any regard for other people you wouldn’t go around killing them.
But the world is full of people who are narcissists and the world is full of people who lack empathy to the degree that they could be classed as psychopaths. I’d wager that very very few of them would or could kill another person because, although they might lack certain human traits, they still know right from wrong. I mean, look at politicians. Not all, but quite a lot. These people obviously lack empathy but would they murder someone? Of course not.
So, as I see it, motive would be one of three things. The first is the old munchausen’s/hero complex. I may be contradicting what I’ve said because that’s another personality disorder. But if we look at Aunt Bev, it translated into a desire for attention at any cost. Certainly Letby is obsessed with attention. In most of her photos she’s doing something to try and get all the attention, and then there’s the text messages. But I can’t see it being the sole driver here. Not unless we’re subjected to anecdotes of her baking her own turds in the oven like Bev. I may be wrong but I think even Letby would think that behaviour as being weird.
Then you’ve got the hate and jealousy element. It’s almost certainly a factor. She seems to be jealous of everyone but what started this? Is that FB post about not being able to have kids true? We don’t know but it would certainly hold weight. I really want to know about her growing up. Was she bullied? Did she pick on people who reminded her of those she’d felt slighted by? I think that if there’s any truth to that, and I think there might be, we will hear all about it down the line.
Finally, and gruesomely, you’ve got the whole thrill element. Most serial killers are sexually driven which is likely why they need to keep on doing it. What makes me think this is a likely explanation is the sadism. We’ve seen a FB post about a baby getting scars from repeated needle pricks. It’s utterly stomach churning but I feel she was hurting babies long before killing them.
So in my view, motive is all of the above, and we’re dealing with depravity on a horrendous scale.
Anyway, just to finish on a lighter note, I wonder what became of old Dr Noname. At very least I bet his wife chopped off his Cockington and planted it up his pretty flowerbed.
This is so important. It’s common sense and reasonable that years later there may be a few discrepancies with evidence. Even for a defendant.
It’s not reasonable when the defendant is challenged with something incriminating she can’t recall it but when it supports her case she can. Over and over again.
‘I can’t remember where I was but I was not at the cot’
I mean, that is not a reasonable answer!
KatieMorag
Well-known member
Isn't it odd how few people are talking about this?! My suspicion is that the media are being extremely careful not to risk prejudicing the trial as it's so huge and so long-running. My mum hadn't heard of it. My sister hadn't heard of it and when I started talking about it got v. defensive as her little girl was in NICU for months and her immediate reaction was 'those nurses are incredible, I don't believe any of them would ever do something like that' which surprised me. But did make me wonder if some people support a NG verdict because it's too unthinkable that a parent like them could have unwittingly left their baby with a monster. I do hope the parents in the case don't blame themselves - they could never have known.
My dad had heard of it and said he (ex lawyer) really rates BM and thinks she'll get NG (not because she is but because of BM). That was a personal low point for me.
So in summary, I hate my family.
followthedolphin
Well-known member
Newbie alert - omg can’t believe I’m finally here on planet Tattle ! I feel a bit starstruck tbh having read you all on here every day for months…after following CS since October.
Thank you for keeping me smiling and sometimes guffawing ( usually @DellaC ) amid this utter horror show.
I’m not ginger - but had a ginger Granny if that helps?
Camp G
I was in the law 19 years and in court a lot - mostly family proceedings but also crime in my earlier years of practice and have been following the etiquette and shenanigans in court closely. I’ve not physically been to Manchester CC as I live too far ( not sure how I’d justify that one to the hubster) . From the reporting, BNE has been ingenious and pretty understated in his approach, which often holds more credence in person than the dramatic shouty effect approach (Bowel). Although I agree the podcast makes BNE sound catty and camp and does his gravitas as an advocate no favours!
I’ve seen some unbelievably toe-curlingly biased “summing up” from judges including one judge in the South East who basically directed the jury “ you basically have to decide whether or not the skinheads are telling the truth or not”!
I think Boss Goss is being very measured and fair.
@Tofino I’m sure BNE and team would be delighted to use your chronology of the evidence - I’ve no doubt these guys have juniors who are aware of these forums. Ultimately I have faith the jury will do the right thing for these babies and their families
Thank you for keeping me smiling and sometimes guffawing ( usually @DellaC ) amid this utter horror show.
I’m not ginger - but had a ginger Granny if that helps?
Camp G
I was in the law 19 years and in court a lot - mostly family proceedings but also crime in my earlier years of practice and have been following the etiquette and shenanigans in court closely. I’ve not physically been to Manchester CC as I live too far ( not sure how I’d justify that one to the hubster) . From the reporting, BNE has been ingenious and pretty understated in his approach, which often holds more credence in person than the dramatic shouty effect approach (Bowel). Although I agree the podcast makes BNE sound catty and camp and does his gravitas as an advocate no favours!
I’ve seen some unbelievably toe-curlingly biased “summing up” from judges including one judge in the South East who basically directed the jury “ you basically have to decide whether or not the skinheads are telling the truth or not”!
I think Boss Goss is being very measured and fair.
@Tofino I’m sure BNE and team would be delighted to use your chronology of the evidence - I’ve no doubt these guys have juniors who are aware of these forums. Ultimately I have faith the jury will do the right thing for these babies and their families
Motherofpugs
Chatty Member
Finally feel like I can follow the Chester Standard without my blood pressure rising 
Guilty as fuck on all counts of course as always.
Guilty as fuck on all counts of course as always.