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Futtrit

VIP Member
11:37am

Mr Myers refers back to the case of Child A.

He says there was a 'failure to read subtle signs'.

He says the "crucial" element is there is no evidence of air embolus.

He says the prosecution have gathered witness accounts from this trial of the skin discolourations.

He says those recollections can change over the years.

He says there is no reference to discolouration in the contemporaneous notes for Child A, which he says is "extraordinary".

He says nurses Caroline Bennion and Melanie Taylor didn't note anything remarkable.

He cross-examined Dr Harkness on the description, who was "very animated" on the "striking" discolourations and "unexpected deterioration", but did not note it at the time, or in a statement to the coroner.

He says the evidence by a nursing colleague noted, in a 2018 police interview, Child A was 'centrally pale', with limbs 'white'.

Mr Myers cross-examined her on it, and asked her about 'blotchiness', and where that had come from.

She agreed the description was different between police interview and evidence.

Dr Jayaram said Child A was 'pale blue', with discolouration 'flitting around'.

Mr Myers says the description he gave from the interview was 'very similar' to the one from the research paper.

My Myers says the description does not appear in his clinical notes at the time, or in the "lengthy statement" to the coroner.

Mr Myers says it is a "remarkable coincidence" that two doctors did not give evidence of discolourations to the coroner in a statement, or note it at the time.
 
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Hannah_204

VIP Member
I've started writing this many times and deleted it. I'm not going to lie you've really got my back up but I know that's because I have an emotional connection to the subject matter and you very clearly have not.

I could've aborted my baby the day before he was born in this country. Legally.

If he was born in the Netherlands I could have murdered him the day after he was born. Legally.

The strict guidance you speak of, the criteria for murder (if a child is already born its not fucking euthanasia or palliative, it's murder) would've been met by my son and MANY of his friends within our community.

When he was born Louie had congenital heart defects, kidney problems and various other issues. He would have met the 'very strict criteria' but instead of murdering him I decided to just love him.
Had to comment some love here ❤❤❤❤❤
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
3:49pm

Mr Myers recalls Child E's mother's statement on the 'bleed coming out of the mouth.'

A description was made around the mouth and the chin.

He says on cross-examination, it was "agreed it was not completely fresh".

He says he suggested it could have been aspirate.

The mother disagreed.

Mr Myers says there is no suggestion by any doctor/nurse of Child E screaming.

The neonatal schedule for Child E on August 3 is shown.

He says Caroline Oakley is involved in giving medication to Child F at 9.13pm, with Child F 'being near Child E at the time'.

Mr Myers says it isn't about lying, it is up to the jury to draw "a fair conclusion"

He says no-one else had seen anything that coincides with this.
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
10:46am

The respiration rate chart for Child A is shown, with what Mr Myers says is "escalating up to the point of collapse", and is in a yellow bracket (ie elevated above normal).

He says [medical expert] Dr Sandie Bohin would not accept that, saying it was stable.

Mr Myers says the defence wonder how much attention was paid to Child A, with Melanie Taylor looking after two babies.

Mr Myers says Child A received no fluids for four hours, and Dr Bohin agrees it was "sub-optimal".

He says the long line was "in the wrong place" for Child A.

He said the records show it was not correctly sited.

He refers to an x-ray review on June 8: 'Long line...to be pulled back'.

Dr David Harkness put in 9.20pm he was unable to move the long line as he had been called to another patient.

Mr Myers says Dr Harkness had a review with colleagues the following day and they agreed it was in a 'perfect place'.

Mr Myers cross-examined Dr Bohin on the long line position, which she reported was 'not in the best position'.

He says Dr Bohin didn't mention it in her evidence.

Mr Myers says the line 'was too close to the heart', and fluids were put down it, and Child A had a fatal collapse within 20 minutes of that.

He says Dr Harkness removed the line as soon as the collapse happened.
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
2:44pm

Mr Myers refers to handover sheets.

He says it is "not difficult" to see why Letby would have handover sheets in the first place.

He says the issue is why she would keep them in such quantities.

He adds if that is evidence of her intention to kill.

He says Letby's position is she "didn't throw things away".

He says Letby had a "habit" of retaining pieces of paper.

He says Letby was 'collecting' in the style of 'accumulating', not as in "collecting stamps".

Letby had said, in cross-examination, she accumulated the paperwork, not its contents.

Mr Myers asks if the jury don't think this accumulation is "random", what is the prosecution's case for them?

He says if Letby had handover sheets and only handover sheets relating to babies on the indictment, that would be significant, but a total of 257 handover were found, with 21 relating to babies on the indictment - "less than 10 per cent". He says there are no handover sheets for Child A, C or D.
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
11:21am

Mr Myers says it was accepted by the prosecution there was sub-optimal care in the cases of Child D and Child H, but in the latter they did not give much more detail.

He says for Child A, there was a 'four-hour' "delay in fluids", and the "line was placed too close to his heart" and was 'not in the optimal place'.

"There is plenty of sub-optimal care knocking about in this unit".

He says some of the sub-optimal care is 'more contentious than others'.

He says there is a "list" for Child H, including the second chest drain for Child H.

'Poor management of stomas' for Child J, and not moving Child K to a tertiary centre, a failure to have factor 8 ready for Child N, 'mistakes in ventilation' and 'getting the doses of adrenaline wrong' for Child P.

Failure to react to 'dark bile aspirates' for Child C for 24 hours.

He says Child Q was moved to a tertiary centre after three bilous aspirates.

He says that is on top of 'babies not being in the right place'.

He says babies like Child G and Child I were "prone to serious problems" and "not always" looked after sufficiently qualified staff.

He says 'with one exception', senior consultants refused to accept anything was wrong in the 12 months, except for one doctor who failed to attend an emergency as quick as she should have been in the case of Child E.
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
2:05pm

He says who Letby is, and was, is at the "heart of this case".

He says she had "never been in trouble before".

He says the jury will have formed an impression from her giving evidence of a "serious" person.

A photo of a noticeboard from her home, taken at the time of her arrest, "is a good snapshot of who she is, and was".

The noticeboard includes a photo of Letby smiling.

The noticeboard photo isn't conclusive but "isn't unimportant" - "this is the person we were dealing with at that time".

He refers to the "commitment" Letby did in training to care for "hundreds and hundreds" of babies.

He says it is "important of the type of person she is".

He says it makes the allegations "all the more unlikely", and medical professionals had spoken "highly" of Letby.

He says nurse Christopher Booth agreed she was 'conscientious and excellent', and it was "not unusual" for her to work overtime.

He agreed she was a "hard worker". He agreed she would be "upset" by the events which unfolded, as it was a "harrowing time".
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
10:32am

He says what struck him when listening to the prosecution, was that what Letby has done/not done, said/not said - that 'made her guilty'.

He says it's "as if the prosecution have a theory" and no matter what the evidence is, or isn't, is treated as to keep that theory going.

He says it "doesn't matter how inconsistent that theory is" and that "different standards are applied to Lucy Letby".

"Everything is treated as evidence of her guilt".
 
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Anol

Member
I wondered that but she said I saw a convo and I thought you would hear a conversation so I thought it must have a different meaning.
I wonder does she mean she saw the parents talking to someone and crying or something like that, so she saw it, not heard it 🤔
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
3:30pm

He says it is important to note there was no post-mortem examination - "in this, of all cases", and that absence has 'allowed the prosecution to make all sorts of suggestions'.

He says doctors failed to deal with a bleed for Child E which was identified or suspected at 10.10pm on August 3.

Mr Myers says it was "obvious" a transfusion would be required.

He says a further note by Dr David Harkness at 11pm recorded a further gastrointestinal blood loss.

He says "even here, no action for a transfusion".

He says it was "delayed a further 45 minutes".

A female doctor said it was a "serious situation" at 10pm and a "very serious situation" by 11pm, and she agreed she wished she had got there sooner, as it was a medical emergency.

He says this is "obviously sub-optimal care".
 
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Faith61

VIP Member
Just put my darling six year old to bed ready to wake up 7 😓 always find birthday eves a little tricky. Time goes so fast. Just so grateful and extra sad tonight for all the babies that should be here as happy little children. Especially thinking of O&P that should be just like my little boy right now 💔 this case has been something else. Thank god you were all here too. I don’t think I’ll follow much at all tomorrow. Don’t think I can stomach hearing any nonsense after what BNE delivered this week. X
Happy birthday to your little one, sure you and he will have the best day ❤
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
4:00pm

Mr Myers refers to the expert witnesses' evidence.

Dr Evans and Dr Bohin referred to Dr Harkness's description of discolouration as background for 'air embolus'.

He says Dr Harkness gave more detailed descriptions in police interview and in evidence than he had in clinical notes, including the 'mobility' of the colours of the discolouration.
 
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Futtrit

VIP Member
10:55am

Letby said it was Melanie Taylor who set up and connected the line and put up the fluids.

Melanie Taylor "couldn't remember which way it was".

Mr Myers says that is something the prosecution would have "absolutely slated" her is she was the one accused.

Mr Myers says another nursing colleague gave "lots of evidence", but "could not remember", in evidence, who connected the line.

He says in cross-examination, from her January 2018 police interview, the colleague said:"it appears I was able to say then it was Mel who did it".

Mr Myers says on the evidence, there is "no basis" of Letby being guilty of any offence for Child A.

He says this account is "firmly based on the experts" who agreed on air embolus.
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10:59am

Mr Myers refers to the 'overarching theory of air embolus'.

He says "at the heart of it" are Dr Dewi Evans and Dr Sandie Bohin, 'neither of whom are experts on air embolus'.

He says they relied on a research paper written over 30 years ago.

He says he asked them the clinical signs of identifying an air embolus.

They both said a sudden and unexpected collapse.

They said a skin discolouration, and the presence of air in the great vessels.

Dr Evans added 'resuscitation is unsuccessful'.

Mr Myers not one of those criterium have been applied consistently across the trial, and they have been 'chopped and changed' to suit the evidence, with 'extraordinary contortions' to fit.

"My word, it changed", he adds.
 
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