Lucy Letby Case #41

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genuinely how can the defence do it, i know it's their job but idk i couldn't do it for any money in the world
It’s a job. It’s also a very important job. Imagine if you were accused of a serious crime and someone told you there wouldn’t be any trial or defence representation for you because no one would do it? Similarly, not everyone who is accused of a crime is guilty and so the right to a fair trial is crucial.
 
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12:23pm

Mr Myers refers to a text message sent by Letby on June 12: '...They are querying a clotting problem [for Child B].'

He says the prosecution said Letby was 'introducing cover' for events that had she had caused, "seizing on comments".

Mr Myers refers to a text message conversation on June 10, in which the colleague reported: '[Child A's] prelim report - no gross abnormalities. So now bleeds, clots or line issues.'

He says this is something Letby is talking about after being informed about it by another nurse, and is "unremarkable
 
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genuinely how can the defence do it, i know it's their job but idk i couldn't do it for any money in the world
Honestly I could. I've said as have others before if these people don't get a right to fair trial then there is no trial and they walk free. If giving them the best defence I possibly could ensures justice is done then so be it (if I was a barrister like).
 
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It’s a job. It’s also a very important job. Imagine if you were accused of a serious crime and someone told you there wouldn’t be any trial or defence representation for you because no one would do it? Similarly, not everyone who is accused of a crime is guilty and so the right to a fair trial is crucial.
I think people understand that. It's the method/verbals he's deploying. As you say it's a job but he seems like a tool.
 
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Ok so…

Obviously this is all just my own opinion.
Full disclosure, before the trial I thought “innocent”, because I didn’t believe a person could do such things on such a scale. Early on in the trial I was G but not for all counts, and for the past 6 months I have been firmly “guilty” for all charges, just so you have an idea of my biases.

I went to court today annoyed that I was only watching BMs closing and annoyed I couldn’t get off work to see BNEs closing or LL on cross. I was thinking “CBA listening to this tosser” but also wanting to see history being made as this case will be massive once it’s over.

My opinion of BM (not LL) has changed a lot today. I was impressed by him, if I was on trial I would want him as my defence.

Yes, he is bombastic, arrogant, and clutching at straws, but really that’s all he has to clutch at. He’s doing the best with what he has. He is a great orator, I found him to weave a compelling narrative (although I didn’t find most of it plausible). I think he’s very good at what he does, and having just read the Standard write up l have to say he comes across much better in person than the write up portrays.
I would describe him as being like that odd amazing teacher or lecturer you get who makes a boring, difficult subject easy to understand, that’s his style of speaking.

For the actual content of what he was saying I’ve done a bit of a thematic analysis, it broadly slots into 4 areas:

  1. “The Prosecution has a theory and they’re bending everything to fit with it.”
Basically saying LL is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t, and no matter what happens the prosecution say that means she’s guilty. Bringing up things
like wrong or missed entries made by other nurses “but when LL does it, GUILTY!”, saying the prosecution are ignoring harm events that happens when LL was off duty (on the table of events he said there was 2 or 3 missing). A lot of implying the prosecution had cherry picked stats (but BM actually did the same in his closing).
He really laboured the “innocent till proven guilty” point and was quite compelling in how he presented it, it was a stirring speech about one’s duty to the accused.

  1. “Experts ain’t tit
The crux of this argument was that the expert witnesses were not impartial, had an agenda and were firmly on the prosecution team. Also questioning how expert they actually were.
As others have said he really went to town on Dewi Evans, however I have to say this was the one thing he said today in his closing that he actually had a bit of evidence to back up. I was quite surprised by some of what I heard and saw about this expert witness. I want to check back in the live reporting to see what was said as I don’t want to say anything I’m not allowed to, but the things he said did give me doubt in the motivations of the witness (not of LLs guilt).
However he over-extrapolated this and tried to paint Sandy Bohin as unreliable “by association” but then had nothing to back this up, so then did not sound credible.


  1. “Buttering up the jury”
I think he over-egged the pudding massively here and I think this is where observers found him condescending. I think he was trying to ride on the coat-tails of BNEs success with “you’ll tell us if we got it right”. He kept on with things like “if you think a piece of evidence isn’t important or doesn’t fit, then you disregard it, it’s up to you, it doesn’t matter what I or anyone else say” (paraphrasing). But he said this too much, going on about how he has faith in the jury and how it’s up to them what evidence is important and what isn’t. He used it as a tool when he couldn’t explain a piece of evidence, e.g. Lucy saying she wasn’t allowed to talk to work colleagues and then being pictured out with them, “you’ll decide if that’s really important or not”.
IMO he missed the mark here and tried to kiss a too much, it came across insincere.

  1. “If you can’t attack what someone is saying, attack the way they say it”
He mentioned often how the prosecution have been hostile to LL in their cross examination. Went as far as almost mimicking BNEs voice when saying
“I do” after LL said “you think I pushed it [the feed] in”.
Said a lot of things about how they belittled LL, how they seemed outraged that she had dared argue back and defend herself.
The “go commando” comment was fairly well covered in the live reporting.
He also kept alluding to this being the first chance the defence has had to really properly address the jury and get their points across, like they haven’t had chance to bring things up until now.



Onto Lucy herself, this was a big motivation for me to visit court, to actually see this person (on video) with my own eyes. Others have commented on her appearance through the trial, and yes she looked more tired, miserable and heavier than her social media pictures. What struck me is how still she was. We all sat in hot courts for hours today and naturally people shifted around in chairs, scratched, drank water, fidgeted. LL could go >1 hour before any perceptible movement, just stock still and staring straight ahead for hours. It just seemed a bit weird.
Later in the day it looked like she dabbed her eyes with a tissue 3 times, but it was during the time BM was tearing Dewi Evans apart, so it seemed like an odd time to be emotional.
There was a point this afternoon where the speakers went wrong and made a horrible noise first and then quite a funny echo when BM was speaking, most people in court laughed briefly, even BM and the police and counsel. LL made no perceptible reaction. She did use that moment after when they were trying to sort the IT to have a bit of a look around the court.

Impact of todays closing on the jury:
There was only two points today that gave
me cause for concern.
Firstly; if somebody found the heaps of medical evidence to be too confusing or difficult to consider, then BM gives a neat
excuse for all this, I.e. that it was all cherry picked anyway to fit the “guilty till proven innocent theory”, and then you don’t have to trouble your mind thinking about it all, because the jury gets to decide what’s important and what’s not. I think this is why he’s popular on the Facebook groups. Hopefully there is nobody on the jury like this.
Secondly; the Dewi Evans discussion visibly swayed some of the people sitting on my side of the court and I think could have the potential to put doubt in the jury’s minds.
Otherwise anyone with half a brain could see all BM did today was well constructed, theatrical waffle.

Personally I think BM knows she’s toast and knows she’ll be up again on more charges before long. He’s just doing his job and honestly I quite enjoyed watching
him do it, as much as one can with such a dark subject matter.
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Yes I did, too much for one day
Ah fab write up, I now know who you were, theres a few of us who go alot so we usually know who’s who we’ve become friends and we go for lunch and get trains together 😆 we laugh at how geeky we sound!
 
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12:29pm

Mr Myers refers to a note by a female consultant, and suggests Dr Evans 'grabbed at' an explanation of 'pink and active' to describe a rash on Child B.

Dr Bohin, cross-examined on it, had said it was "a mistake".

Mr Myers says it was "not an innocent mistake".
 
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We don’t know BM in real life, he could be the nicest guy ever; he could be an actual hole. He must have some grit to him if he can defend those charged with the worst crimes. BNE will have defended people who were found guilty of crimes too, he’s not just a prosecutor.
 
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12:23pm

Mr Myers refers to a text message sent by Letby on June 12: '...They are querying a clotting problem [for Child B].'

He says the prosecution said Letby was 'introducing cover' for events that had she had caused, "seizing on comments".

Mr Myers refers to a text message conversation on June 10, in which the colleague reported: '[Child A's] prelim report - no gross abnormalities. So now bleeds, clots or line issues.'

He says this is something Letby is talking about after being informed about it by another nurse, and is "unremarkable
So two days before she’s told no clotting problems and this is evidence for the defence that two days later she said “they are querying a clotting problem”. Eh?
 
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Ah fab write up, I now know who you were, theres a few of us who go alot so we usually know who’s who we’ve become friends and we go for lunch and get trains together 😆 we laugh at how geeky we sound!
That’s really nice! I really wish I’d been able to make it down as I’m not too far away in Leeds. Do most people who go think she is guilty?
 
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We don’t know BM in real life, he could be the nicest guy ever; he could be an actual hole. He must have some grit to him if he can defend those charged with the worst crimes. BNE will have defended people who were found guilty of crimes too, he’s not just a prosecutor.
 
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I think people understand that. It's the method/verbals he's deploying. As you say it's a job but he seems like a tool.
He'll be desensitised to it all and will be able to switch the majority of the cases off when he gets home
 
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I think people understand that. It's the method/verbals he's deploying. As you say it's a job but he seems like a tool.
Sadly I am all too aware that most people think defence KCs are awful people but he has to cast doubt on the prosecution’s case, that is a vital part of doing his job and it does not make him a “tool”. Would you prefer it he said nothing at all and she appealed on the basis of defective representation?
 
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Dan is reporting too. Bit more descriptive
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He'll be desensitised to it all and will be able to switch the majority of the cases off when he gets home
Yeah. What about the parents though? They'll have to live with remembering what he's saying.
 
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Of course BM is giving it his all, now. He has to, as has been said may times. He's also making the most of the 'recency effect'. In psychological terms, people, when given long lists of information tend to remember the first (primacy effect) and last (recency effect) parts of the 'list' last. He'll know this. He's going for the biggest impact, now, because he'll be aiming for the jury to retain more of what is being said, for their deliberations. Hopefully, the judge's summing up and directions will bring things back into balance. So much rests on this jury. I don't envy them one bit.
 
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Sadly I am all too aware that most people think defence KCs are awful people but he has to cast doubt on the prosecution’s case, that is a vital part of doing his job and it does not make him a “tool”. Would you prefer it he said nothing at all and she appealed on the basis of defective representation?
Not exactly what I said. I understand he has a job to do. I maybe just thought he might be slightly more legally impressive than just slinging tit everywhere. Will agree to disagree re being a tool.
 
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Sadly I am all too aware that most people think defence KCs are awful people but he has to cast doubt on the prosecution’s case, that is a vital part of doing his job and it does not make him a “tool”. Would you prefer it he said nothing at all and she appealed on the basis of defective representation?
I hope you can understand emotions run high, especially for those that have followed this trial for nine months. I wouldn’t take it personally. BM has had no trouble telling the court to be disparaging of somebody that’s a “professional witness” despite expert witness work being a perfectly legitimate job so I think should ever find these comments, they won’t make him lose sleep. He’s incredibly good at what he does but people here would probably like to feel free to share their frustration. And have a laugh.
 
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Dan is reporting too. Bit more descriptive
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Yeah. What about the parents though? They'll have to live with remembering what he's saying.
i have been in court having being assaulted, and my parents/I/anyone who wanted to listen had to hear from the defence how I was probably lying despite evidence, or I was likely ‘asking for it’. Worst experience of my life. But in contrast, if my child was wrongly accused of something they hadn’t done I would want there to be no question ‘unasked’.
 
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