Lucy Letby Case #41

[Futtrit]

12:50pm

Mr Myers refers to the 'list of similarities' that Mr Johnson used at the close of his speech.

He says the lists are "not similar" and "how on earth" they are supposed to show a pattern of criminal behaviour.

He says they are "masses of lists of differences"

He says it is "dead right" they are a list of "dissimilarities".

He says Child I features on eight of the lists. Child J is on 'none of them'. Child K is on one of the list. Child A and Child B on two, Child N, six, out of '11 similar features'.

He says the alternate reading is that for the babies a list does apply to, the remaining are for which they didn't. He says there is a 'mirror image', that a list which features seven babies, means that 10 babies did not have that similarity, and for one which features three babies, means it didn't happen for 14 babies.

"These lists mean nothing...unless it is linked to the harm alleged."

He says the list 'presumes a lot', that the defendant is guilty.

He cites the list of discolouration features for some of the children, which staff had not seen before or since.

He says each discolouration has to deal with individual babies, whether there was sub-optimal care, and on the quality of the evidence featured. He says for Child A, the descriptions given were 'relatively poor'.

He says for Child M, one witness saw a discoluration - Dr Ravi Jayaram.

He says the basis of Child H's discolouration was a father's account for a description of the fingers.

He says the approach of the list is 'prejudged', 'misconceived and unfair', and the evidence is "very variable" and "create a fundamentally unfair situation".

 

[Fruitshop]

Kinda worried BM is gonna sway some of the jury really hope not! She’s guilty as sin!

I’m really worried too

 

[Haveyouanywool]

What would catching her I act look like though. She is literally just pushing a syringe the wrong way for most of them. With E his mum saw her bent over him with blood on his face and he later had a massive bleed, and Baby K was attacked by her tube being dislodged. Lucy was watching her de satting and did absolutely nothing, how can a 25wk baby who can't breathe for herself self correct.

Baby E’s mum said he was screaming and bleeding.
I know he was obviously in hospital but what medical procedure was he having that would cause screaming and bleeding? If not a procedure then what we’re they symptoms of?
If you came across an adult hospital patient screaming and bleeding, with no obvious medical explanation or causative procedure would you think ‘oh well, nothing to see here’? Then, to cap it all, the patient dies.
I know babies cry (maybe not premmies though), but come on.

 

[Ilovemusic]

It’s all he can do. There is literally no plausible defence so it’s all he can do is attack attack attack. Attack the staff, the standard of care at the hospital, and try to discredit the other witnesses including the parents.

Lucky him then, more than likely has private health care and won't need the NHS!

 

[Morning_Star]

Sorry just jumpin in quickly. Last 2 months have been rit at work, and I’ve been working all hours, so wasn’t able to follow in real time, and despite trying to catch up every day, I always seem to be 20 pages behind.
But I just wanted to say thank you all for your fantastic posts: full of insight, brilliant analysis, wonderful, much needed light-hearted spin on an otherwise harrowing case to follow, and for your wonderful company. I haven’t posted much in the last few weeks because being always behind, I feared I may say something that’s already been said or sound annoying asking a question that’s already been answered. I’ll miss you all very much when this ends, so like a few people have suggested, I’d really be up for a side-thread.
Now, back to BM. Listening to him so far has been hard. I’m going to be dipping in and out, but as it’s already been said, he hasn’t really got much else to go by and he’s just doing his job. Tbh, I want him to do a good job because I don’t want LL to come back crying and the chance of there being a mistrial. I think the parents have been through hell, and they deserve closure. So let BM do his best, but he knows, and we all know, that no matter how hard he tries, it is plain to anyone who’s been following that she’s guilty.
I applaud those who’ve waited to hear everything before deciding she’s guilty. Congratulations!! I was in the guilty camp from day one (despite having a small wobble when BM first put her on the stand). However, BNE did such an amazing job cross-examining her that there’s nothing anyone can do or say to make me doubt she’s guilty. BNE has removed any possibility of doubt for me. Well done BNE
Sorry for the long essay/rant. Hang in there. It’ll soon be over & those poor babies and parents will have justice. Nothing will bring those precious little ones back, but justice is the least we can give them & their parents.
I look forward to reading all your wonderful posts. Keep them coming

 

[sebanna]

This was the "harm event" for baby C that Lucy was not on shift for.

 

[Danica Catrick]

I do actually feel a bit sorry for BM, it's like he's been backed into a corner and it's hard to defend her without it sounding either ridiculous or hurtful to the families. I think he must have searched hard for a medical expert to help him but been unable to find one.

I agree. It must be a right pain to have a client like Lucy who contradicts everything, including agreed evidence, on the stand.

 

[amsmall]

No I don’t believe he does, hence why he only had one witness and it was a bit of a moot point. He has 0 medical experts to back him up. The only evidence I believe is some tiny little holes/mistakes in the prosecutions case, which he’ll play on but which don’t negate the bigger picture when you look at both statistics of her being there either just before or during every single collapse and things such as her keeping the medical notes, her own notes which she made, the Facebook searches etc etc etc.

Thanks for clearing that up. I had visions of BM with of slides of evidence. She's still toast

 

[Ilovemusic]

11:58am

He says the jury have to be "sure of deliberate harm" and "with the intent to kill", and the jury must assess the "quality of evidence".

He says the "medical evidence is the foundation of this case".

Mr Myers says Lucy Letby denies all the allegations.

He says it must be identified harm being done, and being sure there was an intent to kill at the time.

He repeats that Letby denies doing anything like that on any occasion.

He says the case is "about an insistent intent to kill".

He says that much be considered in the context of Letby 'raising the alarm' for some of the babies, or looking after some of the babies 'before and after their events'.

He says that much be considered in the context of Letby 'raising the alarm' for some of the babies, or looking after some of the babies 'before and after their events'.
[/QUOTE]
Much like an arsonist who may stand around watching flames take hold and subsequent arrival of the fire service!

 

[Danica Catrick]

10:34am

He cites examples by the prosecution case - her presence when something happens, or not being present, or just leaving the unit, or just turning up for her work.

Her making a note, or not making a note - 'guilty'.

He says if she signs for medical records, or signs for others - 'guilty'.

A baby in her care doesn't show signs of deteriorations - guilty.

A baby does show signs of deteriorations - guilty.

He says it is "twisting and turning".

She cries when giving evidence - guilty.

She doesn't cry when giving evidence, or doesn't cry at the right times - guilty.

The problem is the consistency with which these issues happen to Lucy and not to other staff members, and how she can be shown to have manipulated records to hide her involvement.

Personally, I don't put much store on the crying / not crying thing as I don't know how I'd react in that situation and I'm very aware of the "perfect victim" trope that's used against victims of sexual assault. However, the timing of her tears (I.e. she clearly only cries for herself) has not done her any favours

 

[moo.89]

Kinda worried BM is gonna sway some of the jury really hope not! She’s guilty as sin!

I know, a good convincing closing speech can really sway the jury to establish some doubt! I hope she doesn’t get away with this on doubt!!!

 

[AllieBee]

So basically he doesn't have much of a defence other than to say everyone is lying. Pathetic

 

[Danica Catrick]

10:51am

He says the emotional reaction to such serious, upsetting and sensitive charges "is to convict".

He says the jury have to be "very careful" on the conclusions reached.

He says the prosecution "characterise" Letby, which "they are entitled to do", and he says the jury "must be alert to that".

He says the language of 'attack', 'gaslighting', 'sabotage', 'you're enjoying yourself', 'your favourite way of killing', playing god', 'calculating', 'manipulative' was sometimes "on the thinnest of evidence...or no evidence at all".

Mr Myers says Letby was in 2015: "She's a 25-year-old band 5 nurse, an excellent one - that's what she was, looking after dozens, if not hundreds of babies...day after day."

He says "you saw the real person" in her evidence and cross-examination, that she could "remember pieces of evidence" in the years she has been waiting for her trial: "There's little else to do in prison, isn't there?"


She was also "scared, anxious and struggling to hold it all together".
---

BIB - I think one thing we can agree on is that she was definitely not an excellent nurse, even if you ignore her killing and injuring babies...

 

[scot_nursey003]

Kinda worried BM is gonna sway some of the jury really hope not! She’s guilty as sin!

I’ve had to stop reading the live reporting, it’s making me too anxious!

 

[xhc___]

I’d be keen to see how BM is gonna explain the sum 250++ handover sheets in her room coupled with the obsessive fb stalks… can’t defend that really!

 

[Aberscot]

I’d be keen to see how BM is gonna explain the sum 250++ handover sheets in her room coupled with the obsessive fb stalks… can’t defend that really!

Yeah easily she collects paper , just handover note paper though

 

[MmmB777]

I’d be keen to see how BM is gonna explain the sum 250++ handover sheets in her room coupled with the obsessive fb stalks… can’t defend that really!

It’s what all “eXceLlenT NurSeS” do.

 

[gigilouxx]

I think the biggest point of this is that for BM to be right, and she is telling the truth, then soooo many people are not only lying, but are correlating with eachother. It’s just not plausible

 

[BearOnChair]

5 days seems an awfully long time, bet the jury groaned at that.

 

[Danica Catrick]

We all know doctors aren't perfect, they're human after all. The NHS is massively underfunded and struggling. Neither of these things account for why these babies became ill or died only when LL was on duty or involved somehow in their treatment.