Lucy Letby Case #30

[DianaBanana]

Letby said she cannot recall why she went in, but saw behind the screen that she was alone. She was 'dusky and blue and not breathing'.

The monitor was "not on".

Letby says Child G was on the 'procedure trolley' - used for procedures such as cannulation. Letby says the baby should not have been left alone on the trolley like that.

She says she picked up Child G and put her back in her cot, applied Neopuff and called for help.

Letby says she did not know why the monitor was off.

The nurse colleague "froze" and got someone else to help. Another nurse, Caroline Bennion, came in.

Letby said she was "very concerned" about three issues - a baby being unattended on a procedure trolley, alone behind screens, and with a monitor switched off.

Letby said she raised those concerns with a nursing colleague, and was keen to file a 'Datix report'. The nursing colleague was less keen, Letby says, to raise the issue, as the procedure had been carried out by Dr Gibbs.

Letby said she "took assurances" the issues would have been dealt with as discussed.


Yeah ok Lucy. Really serious event you’ve recalled yet you didn’t do anything about it. Shame as it might have helped your defence if you did. Instead we just have to believe you.

No evidence the baby was on a trolley other than her testimony as she moved her to a cot before calling anyone.

Didn't remember the monitor being off in her police interviews, but recalls it clearly now.......ok.

 

[LittleMy]

Omg cross!!!
Faaaarking hell big Nicky J straight in there. Daammmn

Saying what we’ve all been thinking lmao

 

[Tofino]

for anyone who loves a bit of drama and is interested in our scientist friend on Reddit…

He lives in California and knows someone who works at Reddit HQ….
His thread with the baby photos got censored.
He’s complained and argued about it in another thread
Accused Reddit of being contempt of court (and is compiling screenshots)
Has now been temporarily banned and even muted from contacting mods and signing his messages off as ‘the scientist’

I only went on Reddit to find out what the tiny orange sap like specks are I get on things outside like windows and washing on the line. Always wondered if it was fly poo anyone know?

 

[DellaC]

That's my hoping anyway can't let a small thing like giving birth get in the way of the trial now

Oh exactly...I mean a smashed fanny, squirty titlets and complete exhaustion just arent an excuse.......never mind looking after a beautiful lil newborn and everything else that being a Mum entails.


Pop the baba out and then back to Tattle jury service

 

[OldBlondie]

Obvs I’ve always been firmly in the guilty camp, but always said I’d be prepared to listen to the defence. So now I’m even more in the G camp after LL taking the stand. I honestly don’t know how Bowel Movement could possibly come back from this, it’s soooooooo obvious that LL is lying, I mean they’re not really offering any alternative explanations other than it was everybody in the world except LL. Even if he has some medical experts, I don’t think they will be enough to convince anyone she’s NG. The thing is the prosecution medical experts always excepted there was a possibility of another explanation such as the resus for liver injury, but it all comes down to probable versus possible. Therefore BM’s experts can only do the same, accept what the prosecution experts have said (cos ofc it’s possible), but they’ll try to emphasise that an alternative explanation is also as possible (I don’t think it is tho given everything we know)

I really don’t think the defence have anything particularly to give at this stage, I always wondered if they’d have something massive up their sleeve, but I don’t think they will have. Think it’s going to be very hard to overlook how badly LL is going to come off after her cross. And if it comes down to which medical experts you put more weight in, I know which ones I’ll be choosing, and I think after cross many will have the same opinion as me. I think we will start cross on Thursday, and I can’t wait. And as I say I don’t think LL will even care that it’s so obvious she’s lying, she’s not taken the stand to actually try and get herself off. She’s definitely a psychopath, and I think the npd that’s been discussed also is spot on

ETA I also think on cross the tears and potential fainting may occur, oh how we will all be so surprised

 

[IGiveUp22]

To be fair, the defence have done a good job so far of showing that these babies *did* suffer other sudden desaturations and require assistance *when LL wasn’t there*.
It does muddy the waters somewhat though because if they were all in constant contact then she’d know which babies were causing concerns, so she’d know which ones may well go ‘unnoticed’ for want of a better phrase.

Yeah I feel this is what he is doing by putting her on the stand. It’s not changed how I feel right now as I would like some further medical evidence to explain what they think caused the “unexplainable desaturations” just him explaining she wasn’t there for other desaturations isn’t enough. We know thewere independent reports who found medical explanations for some but not these ones. But I do think it will muddy it for the jury.

I also find it hard to remember what the prosecution said for each baby (all praise the wiki) but as he’s flying through them, I imagine the jury don’t have the ability to run back through all the info they have to compare. I think their deliberations will be VERY long.
I still go back to her being on the stand and actually answering things being massive for me. It wasn’t like she had 1 interview. She had 30. That’s 30 different opportunities to offer all of this and she didn’t…

Edited to add - I also like what someone else posted about how she’s literally saying EVERY witness must be misremembering/wrong but she’s completely accurate yet used “I don’t recall” repeatedly throughout all of this. She’d have been more convincing if she agreed with some of the statements of witnesses but she can’t, because they make Her look VERY guilty

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Poor smudge and Tiger

 

[ClaraPlum]

My personal experience of working in childrens’ outpatients, ward & unit:

- People DO tailgate after you when swiping in and you’re not meant to. If you see a colleague you will most likely hold the door open for them. If it’s a stranger you obviously don’t. Patients and randoms try it too but we obviously know to challenge them and make them go through the official way. No one is going to challenge a regular, especially if you’re in uniform.

- People will buzz you in if you forget your card or if you have problems with it (card is damaged, needs renewing, problem with the door system). It happens! A doctor isn’t going to drive an hour (or more!) just to go home when they forget their card. The clinics/wards would never run properly otherwise. All you have to do is look through the little window/security camera and think “oh it’s Clara, she’s probably having problems with her card, I’ll let her in”

- People lend each other their cards. You’re absolutely not meant to and I will never let anyone have possession of my card because I’m paranoid. But when I first started and my card didn’t work on the ward, my colleagues leant me their cards to swipe in so I could do the ward run. Someone asked to borrow my card to access the restricted room (where the drug fridge and prescription pads are) and I flat out refused in case something happened and the hospital had my swipe data

- Nurses have the keys to the drug cupboard and the fridge but anyone can easily gain access to it. Our HCAs are usually in possession to them when they’re not meant to and I know I’m definitely not supposed to have possession of them but have found myself having to get them in emergencies.

 

[OldBlondie]

This is an actual farce by LL, for K she’s not just saying that her version of events is slightly different from RJ, I expected her to say something like I was just waiting a minute or something, but to completely deny even being in the room and basically saying RJ is lying is mental. This is why I’m convinced she’s not taken the stand to try and get herself off, but it’s purely for attention and hurting the families even more. How anyone can not realise that she’s just telling lies at this point is beyond me. Never heard so much bs, it’s nearly laughable that she’s thrown so many under the bus at this stage. Are we really expected to believe that she as a single person is the only one telling the truth, and the other 130 odd witnesses that have testified so far are all the ones that are lying. If it wasn’t so serious then it would actually be funny

 

[Daisydunn15]

BTW happy international nurses day to the other nurses here. We might work all hours with no staff delivering under funded services, and we might not get a decent pay deal, but at least there's a random day where we get an email from the NMC 🥲

 

[Tofino]

Each time she was arrested, they had additional babies added to the suspicions. It seems they waited until they could charge her with all 17 babies. Rather than charge some, then add some more. I wonder if there is a legal issue for this (is there time limits on going to court once charged?).

Anyway, it doesn’t concern me how long it took and number of arrests before charging. I don’t see that it was because they had a lack of evidence. I see it as its a very complex case, essentially 17+ crimes that needed investigating and they had to cross every t and dot every i.

the neonatal review chart they refer to sometimes is essentially a spreadsheet. It documents every single neonatal record, minute by minute for every baby and every staff member over the relevant shifts. Every observation, every note on records, every prescription. Not just the affected baby but all of them on the unit because they have to determine where everyone was and what they were doing at any one time. I can’t imagine how long that took to compile over the course of the investigation. And that’s only one part of the investigation.

 

[OGJessicaFletcher]

Just listening to today’s podcast (about Friday’s court session) and they mention baby D’s mum and her testimony re Lucy being in the room around 7pm.

it just occurred to me after all that discussion earlier regarding JJK and baby N, that we now know Lucy does go into the rooms before her shifts start - she was there at 7.10pm for baby N.

I know there is swipe data and a text message at later times for baby d, but the theory of Lucy being in the room around 7 before her shift doesn’t actually seem that unreasonable now.

Could it be possible she was swiped in by another colleague? Or the Door was held open for her by another member of hospital staff? and/or the pass was already at work? (in her Morrison bag of secrets).

We know she didn’t forget it as it was swiped after 7pm. Just speculating I think LL likely premeditated her attacks. Wonder if her text to her colleague to say she was leaving for her shift was to give herself an alibi?

I think she is very clever covering her tracks hence why LL is placed at the scene every time and there is evidence to prove this yet there is always a little grey area of doubt with each baby where she has tried to cover her attacks. Lucy says herself “they will have little or no evidence”.

I wonder if she intentionally/frequently uses colleagues swipe cards to gain entry?

Then using her own swipe card after harming the babies. Just to ensure if she was caught they couldn’t blame her as she wasn’t on shift, I’ve noticed a pattern of her where abouts being constantly questioned throughout this trial and I believe it is intentional.

 

[kata420]

. . . saying she was "possibly waiting to see if she self-corrected, we don’t normally intervene straight away if they weren’t dangerously low".

This in itself is a huge lie from her. Oxygen saturations in the 80’s range of anybody that is intubated is dangerously low. There is no way you would stand there waiting to see if they ‘self correct’. That’s absolute bullshit. The alarm didn’t sound cos she must have had it silenced. Sats of 80’s is a crash call and immediate intervention. She should have been calling for help, pressing alarms and giving the baby immediate rescue breaths. The fact she didn’t act here is nothing but sinister, IMHO.

ETA: I meant sats in the 80s of an intubated patient is a crash call… there are other reasons that are less exciting for it but in a baby with potentially dislodged ETT, you would be jumping to action, not watching them deteriorate in silence. It’s sickening even thinking about it to be honest. Evil.

 

[Motherofpugs]

Dr Jayaram joining everyone else under the bus ok Lucy

 

[Cheddar Chalpupa]

Psychopathic behaviour to go into work before your work shift actually starts tbh

(mostly kidding but I do have work colleagues who do this, and go in on their days off as well?! wild horses could not pull me there )

It's like when shop workers go in on their day off and walk around like celebrities!

 

[LittleMy]

Just why?? So crass

 

[Dolly Daydreaming]

From LL taking the stand, we can see from her responses that she is (may be unaware) using a DAVRO reaction, which is v typical in people with NPD.

D - Deny - the accused will deny the report immediately. They will remain steadfast in their assertion. Responses for example could be like she has said previously "I only wanted to care for the babies".

A - Attack (yet to see this on defense, possibly will show in cross-examination responses)

V & O - Reverse Victim and offender - the attempt of the perpetrator to switch roles with the victim. Rather than accepting responsibility for their actions, they aim to make the original victim into the perpetrator. In this case, she's either blaming the hospital for xyz problems, or her possible incompetence (no accountability for seeking further training, help, etc). But either way, LL is painting a picture that non of this is her fault, she was there to care for the babies, and everyone else is at fault. LL thinks she is the victim.

Can't wait for the cross exam, to see if she does attack. I've cared for many people with NPD, and grew up in an extremely abusive household, and in someways, they are cookie-cutters of each other. Same manipulative responses!

Here endeth my ted talk

 

[DellaC]

I find this exchange very odd. It's like he's talking to a little girl.

I've never followed a murder case so I don't know what I expected from BM and LL but it wasn't this nonsense.

 

[tay65]

This is getting to the point it’s irritating me now. Stupid little cunt so all those parents who witnessed some of the worst things that could happen to their child are liars?

And according to the DM Podcast every one of the parents are in court. If the lies and selective memory is infuriating us we can only imagine the upset this must be causing the families.

 

[docmum]

Lovely to see your name pop up. You've been missed by us all 🫶
---

Ooooh fantastic news....all you have to do is pop the baby out over the weekend and you can be back with us on Monday

means a lot - having one of those off days where I do wish I had someone around for a cuddle, so the virtual hug from you was really well received - thank you. Taken some tattle downtime whilst the trial days have been so inconsistent, life has been a bit overwhelming which tends to push me away to hide from life anyway - more so when there’s quite a lot of newbies suddenly here.