Lucy Letby Case #30

[LittleMy]

Us all when the trial finally finishes:

 

[Tofino]

Playing devil's advocate here... If you took my phone away and put me in prison and questioned me about events and messages from 6/7 years I wonder how accurate my answers would be. Even my memory of my daughter desaturating in scbu 4 years ago. I couldn't tell you precise details other than feeling immense panic. Obviously it was my daughter and emotions and hormones and lack of sleep and she was okay after increasing oxygen in the incubator literally a consultant touching a button. but after two days I stopped even registering midwifes and nurses names they changed every 8 hours. I don't know how much a nurse could be expected to remember. However in saying that, I also have a higher expectation that if you witnessed a child's death and had responsibility for their care, you would go over the details more and remember. Do you remember details from messages and critical events in 2016/7? Is there something wrong with me?

the issue I have with Lucy’s testimony, is we have stacks and stacks of ‘I don’t remember’ type responses if she is being asked about something incriminating, and stacks and stacks of ‘I remember where I was’ (not at the cotside, in the doorway, someone else did it) type answers to anything that goes in her favour.

its the pattern of her memory recall that doesn’t add up for me.

maybe that’s just a normal pattern of behaviour memory for Lucy though

 

[Here2BNosey]

Hello. I've been following these threads and the case since February time, I did try to avoid it for a while but my curiosity finally got the better of me. I have finally caught up with everything although ill admit, I didn't fully read all the early threads nor have I finished listening to all the podcast episodes.
The case is an absolute mind fuck and I'm still no clearer on how I feel. Initially I thought she was definitely guilty as there was too much sitting against her. Now though, I'm honestly not sure. The biggest thing (beside her physical presence) that Initially had me in the G camp was the notes, she had admitted it and confessed and I still think that's possibly the strongest evidence but it doesn't fully convince me for some reason, they are so jumbled and conflicting.
For me the insulin is very confusing, I don't fully understand how it is suggested that LL could have interfered with the 2nd TPN bag when she wasn't there? They are stocked in a fridge, so she either had to tamper with all the remaining bags yet it didn't affect any other babies or she had to tamper with just one other bag and luckily (unluckily) the right (contaminated) bag was selected as the next bag for that particular baby? Please someone correct me if I have misunderstood but I just can't get my head around that.
I do think some of the expert options are a bit sketchy, I understand why evidence would change as facts come to light but to go from natural causes to deliberate harm does feel a little bit like "making a murderer'.
I also think a lot of the evidence seems bitty, partial or incomplete in terms of the picture it paints around the goings on at the hospital as a whole. Are there actually lots of other deaths she isn't involved in or are these still under investigation, again I get why we can't really know that info but my brain doesn't like not being in possession of the full facts, so I do feel like that is missing information. Alongside the high stillbirth rate for a similar time frame, that doesn't necessarily say anything in regards to LL but it does raise questions.
Finally if LL was actually, truly innocent I don't see what she could actually do or say differently now to PROVE that she didn't do it? If the whole world (hospital/police etc) are convinced it was you because you were there, how do you physically prove you didn't do these things?

I haven't really covered much of what makes me think she could be G as a lot of it had been heavily discussed many times already on the thread and my post isn't intentioned to annoy or trigger anyone, just trying to share some of my thoughts and questions now I've finally reached the bottom of the thread. There is probably more but I think you've probably all suffered enough of my war and peace for now.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Just catching up on the thread, thought it was a lucy letby thread not an alcohol thread. Talk about clogging the thread up

Well it’s nice to have a break over the weekend of discussing a harrowing case. People can skip pages if they don’t like it.

 

[gigilouxx]

She describes it all as “normal behaviour for her” but that doesn’t mean it’s not suspicious
Normal behaviour for a burglar is scoping out houses and trying doors, just cos they describe it as normal doesn’t mean it’s not sinister

 

[MmmB777]

Ok so his post his correct, BM brought it up with the judge after the break (makes me think, and just my personal opinion, Lucy told him what she heard on the break) but both BM and judge said they didn’t hear it. judge said he would have said something at the time if he had. Which is what I was trying to say before but I didn’t want to be the one to say about BM bringing it up with the judge after the break because the jury weren’t there and it wasn’t reported.

Hoping and praying baby E’s mum called her a cunt

 

[Ohnoshebettadont]

I just don't understand how she can lie so much... it's coming across as really weird to me.... maybe it's just the reporting because it's coming across quite childlike... you know when you catch your 3 year old eating a bag of buttons before dinner and they flat out say "daddy said I could have them" while he's standing right and can very quickly counter what they have just told you with the truth. (Sorry terrible analogy, I'm wrecked 🥱).

Does she believe she's so convincing people won't question the obvious plot holes in her stories??

Every day she is on the stand I’m further convinced of her covert narcissism.

Covert narcissists lie instinctively, as a way to protect themselves from any damage to their self-image and to get other to do the things that they want. Narcissists do not feel remorse for the lies they tell or the damage that they cause. While they are usually very aware of what the truth is, they see lies as a justified means of getting what “they deserve,” which usually involves copious amounts of respect, special treatment, and admiration from those around them.

Lies often take the form of:

-Acting innocent, clueless, or victimized
- Forgetting what you talked about, or what they were directed to do
-Projection of their faults on to you
-Completely made up fantasy versions of events they were part of
-Omission of key facts
-Refusal to acknowledge or respond to a direct question
-Quickly changing the topic of conversation
-Direct accusations towards others


Creepy creepy woman

 

[Mysteryy]

Re: the PTSD, I find it interesting she was only diagnosed when in remand by a prison psychologist - so 2020? Well after the arrests. If it was indeed caused by her first arrest, why didn’t she just get the diagnosis herself like she did with her depression? Convenient IMO to wait till prison…. Does that mean if she’d never been put in prison she’d never have had the diagnosis and would have gone around being startled by everything??

If we are to believe her experience as genuine...

Typically with PTSD, there is a requirement for the symptoms to have lasted for a period of time before a diagnosis would be given (E.g. 6 months). There are more symptoms involved in receiving a PTSD diagnosis such as intrusive memories, reliving, avoiding, so you need more time/evidence to support the diagnosis.

You can experience trauma and traumatic events, but not all traumatic events lead to PTSD and therefore may have been a delay before diagnosis or even identification. I believe she received anti depressants prior to her first arrest (not 100%) sure though,therefore wouldn't have received diagnosis then.

Chances are, the prison environment would have retriggered her symptoms of PTSD. Being easily startled, scared of loud noises and reliving her arrest would all be likely in a prison environment. There are so many similarities that can cause people to be triggered/retraumatised, such as prison and police uniforms being the same, shouting from cells, cell doors banging. It is very plausible to me that it would have been detected in prison, rather than GP as nor everyone would identify their trauma as PTSD.

My caveat to this though, is that she can have PTSD regardless of guilt or innocence. I've worked with people who have murdered their partner and have had PTSD from their own offence, and suffered grief from the bereavement. It can seem bizarre and contradictory but isn't an indicator of guilt or innocence

 

[Tofino]

P


It’s not so much about the number of arrests, its about the fact that the police felt the need to do the repeat unannounced early morning arrests.

An arrest is done in that manner to ensure preservation of evidence and so that the suspect is unaware of their impending arrest and doesn’t try to flee before they can arrest.

Given that she had already been arrested once, the unannounced arrests second two arrests seem totally unnecessary with an element of overkill. Her parents are completely innocent in this and they must have been traumatised themselves by the police knocking the door down at 6am on two occasions.

I am not saying the arrests were unnecessary, but that the fact they were unannounced rather than inviting her (inviting is the police term rather than my words) to come down to the station with her solicitor. That would be the far more usual procedure for repeat arrests.

I may be wrong or I may not just be able to recall, but I don’t think we know when she was charged. Which again is interesting to me. If they charged her with nothing until after the 3rd arrest then to me that says a lot and is interesting. I would be interested in exact timeline with dates of each arrest and when she was charged with offence. This indicates the strength or weakness of the evidence in legal terms. Or rather, what the CPS believe is the strength or weakness of the evidence.
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She was a MURDER suspect for the deaths and attempted murders of 17 babies. I don’t really see any issue in the slightest with the police doing more than three unannounced early morning arrests/raids, whatever they were.

I can’t even believe this is even a thing. Bloody police should have been kinder, poor Lucy.

 

[LittleMy]

I was SA’d as a child. It fucked me up in many ways but fortunately I didn’t turn to murdering innocent babies.
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I’m really hoping it’s on today. I have to wait in for the plummer after a pipe has burst in my kitchen so need something to distract me from stressing the f- out.

 

[Tofino]

Suspected murderers do not get invited to the station for an interview. That doors comin off whether it’s yours, your mums or your uncles best mates hamsters 3rd cousin

If they’d have sent a text saying “Hi Lucy do u mind coming in for an interview on xyz at 3pm?” She could’ve easily wiped her phone or laptop or tablet, put the shredder to good use and spoke to a solicitor in good time to get her story straight.

‘Hi Lucy would you mind coming to the station so we can arrest you? Saves us coming to you. Ta love’

 

[Tofino]

How did they look? Did you talk to them? Did you ask them if they think she’s guilty?

they looked pretty similar to what we’ve seen except her dad was dressed casually. It was her mum I recognised first. Tried not to stare as it would be obvious but did hide behind my child at one point just to be sure it was them, pretending to talk to him on his level
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And because one was on the phone the other wasn’t really doing anything. They didn’t seem to have any shopping or anything with them. Maybe just gone for a walk.

Also made me realise you just don’t know what’s going on in people’s life. There were people sat next to them who probably had no idea they were sat by someone whose daughter is on trial for murder and attempted murder for multiple tiny newborn babies. Because I think only those of us following closely would recognise them and that’s only really thanks to the Daily Mail too.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Letby said she recalled Child K only as she was a 25-week baby, which was unusual on the unit.
Letby is asked about a Facebook search for the surname of Child K, made on April 20, 2018, at 11.56pm.

Letby says: "You still think of patients you've cared for”

So she only remembered baby K as she was small, but managed to remember and look up her family TWO YEARS later

 

[Treesy19]

Notice how today she said it was the first death for that other nurse as desig nurse. Was that part of the thrill for her? Seeing the despair of her fellow nurses? To date, I always figured she hated the babies themselves, but I’m starting to feel they were just collateral damage and her main aim was more the thrill of chaos, confusion and hurt for fellow nurses and of course parents. She was spending most of her week with both nurses and parents and so harming the babies caused these two groups or people pain.

 

[tennis ball michael]

So can we take a moment for all those who have fallen under the bus? So far I think that’s:

Melanie Taylor
The Not A Disagreement about wanting to be in room 1 disagreement- as related to JJK
The mum that was mistaken that she came down at 9 with breast milk
Dr Gibbs
Dr.Harkness
E.Powel who didn’t remember anyone coming to her with any complaints about Dr G or Dr H leaving the baby and leaving the monitor off
The unnamed nurse who froze
The mother who didn’t go to get coffee
Room 1 itself
The agreed evidence light levels in room 3
The colleagues who she got on well with/were her family but were also saying not positive comments
JJK for not thinking that another colleague positively mentioning loads how flexible LL was and winding all of the rest of the shift up was a good thing

Any more?

 

[DellaC]

Letby adds she did not know she had that many handover sheets at her house. "I did not keep track of them."

Of course you didn't keep track of them chuck...that's why they'd moved house with you and some had even made it to your parents house. You removed A BRAND NEW FULLY FUNCTIONING SHREDDER and placed hospital documents in the box, marked it KEEP and hid it in a wardrobe at your parents.

You lying shit head. Oh I honestly hope her lying tongue swells up and chokes the bitch!

 

[LittleMy]

Cross examination has begun

 

[Motherofpugs]

Her saying ‘you’re not supposed to watch a baby die’ is such an odd statement to me. It’s exactly what she did. It’s almost like an admission hidden in another context.

 

[Tofino]

All door swipe data actually proves is that your card has been used to swipe the door in that moment (1.15am in this case). A door that’s meters away from where you have been working for 5+hrs and meters from where baby collapsed. It does not prove Lucy’s location at 1am. It does not prove which direction she was coming from and going to at 1.15am. It’s far from proving she wasn’t there at all because there is no evidence of her leaving the unit or being anywhere else. in fact it’s extremely weak.

If there was a door swipe record at a different part of the hospital for just before or after 1am and it would be physically impossible to get back to NNU for the 1am then that would be strong evidence she was not there. But that doesn’t exist.

ben myers didn’t even bloody ask her where she had been fgs.

 

[F1Grid]

Confused about the issue with the lighting in the room. The picture was in agreed facts so presumably agreed by the defence? Now LL is saying the room was not as dark as that?

BM must want to cry.