Great post. Well explained. Thank youHello, been lurking here and find this case really depressing. Seen many posts saying she's a scapegoat but wanted to point out that she can't be because:
Also seen comments questioning how the hospital took so long to do anything:
- The hospital initiated the police investigation themselves. They didn't need to. They have one review done by the RCPCH that gave recommendations on improvements to reduce neo natal deaths. They could have just stuck with that report as the reason deaths were increasing, as no one was blaming anyone. If they wanted to hush it up that was their chance. They brought in the the police themselves.
- Her colleagues had suspicions about her some months before the RCPCH review began. And a year before the police review began. So even before the hospital leadership knew anything, her own doctors/nurses were questioning her behaviour. So not like the police came in, and they needed to pin the blame on someone so blamed her.
- The police would have had to review all the ward's case files as on many of these charges she was not the designated nurse. So they couldn't have just picked 'LL cases' by looking through her case files only. They'd have to review each one and read the detailed notes/interview people to find where she was involved, even when not supposed to. If anyone else was suspicious, they would have spoken to them too and since no one else has been arrested, means there isn't anyone.
- She was often the only person in the room with the patients. They have door records of who went in and out, so would know if someone else had the same opportunity. They wouldn't be able to cover it up as the door records are electronic - you'd have to tamper with all of them, every day for a whole year to avoid detection. Also she herself doesn't deny being there. So a doctor or colleague couldn't be responsible if they weren't in the room, and she hasn't mentioned it in her notes or at interview.
- If she is found guilty, the parents can still sue the hospital in a civil suit. Even if she isn't they still could. So blaming her won't protect the hospital. It would have been far easier to force a transfer for her, hush it all up, then get the police involved.
- The case has taken 7 years and is still ongoing - will be for another few years. It has cost millions of pounds. Involved police, medical professionals and civilians. Police wouldn't assign budget and resources like this for a hospital cover up. They have nothing to gain.
Am uncertain on her guilt. But convinced she was behaving unethically/unprofessionally for sure. Irrespective of the charges, she should have undergone a performance and conduct review. The amount of personal patient information she had at home, was sharing on text and facebook is shocking to me. These are not secure methods. These are sackable offences in many industries. Also, her not following instructions and protocols is also shocking to me. She can't have been this overworked and prone to error if she was complaining to people that she was getting bored, and had so much time to attend to cases not her own. So I would have expected her to be more proactive in raising issues to leadership, being more thorough and following protocol after the first few deaths. None of this means she's guilty of murder/attempted murder though. I just question her work ethic based on what has been shared.
- It's very difficult in the public sector to just suspend or sack someone. You need evidence of wrong doing and to show you have followed all the right HR procedures. Or you'd have to deal with wrongful dismissal tribunals, unions getting involved etc. Also you have to think from the perspective of her colleagues - even if you suspect something is not right, it's a huge leap to think they are deliberately hurting patients. You wouldn't want to blame them and ruin their career on a hunch. It seems like in Feb the doctor had suspicions, and then soon after her shifts changed. This was probably because on the day shift they felt more people would be around as witnesses, so that might stop her, or they thought the night shifts were tiring her out and she was making errors. Not clear. I do agree she should have been more closely supervised certainly! I did read somewhere that they also wanted to introduce CCTV but the medical staff didn't want that as it showed a lack of trust. I know unions kick off about stuff like this so it isn't easy to do.
I’m no expert by all means but if you go on your profile and ‘activity log’ it’s everything you’ve liked, posted, searched, saved, poll votesis anyone else surprised at the volume and detail of the stuff they’ve got from her Facebook? I had no idea they could be so specific, are there any IT people who can explain it in VEEEEERY simple terms? Does your Facebook remember everything you e ever done?
Not even just Facebook, your phone remembers everything you’ve done. Some apps can listen to you even when you’re not using them! Everything you’ve typed, pretty much everywhere you’ve beenis anyone else surprised at the volume and detail of the stuff they’ve got from her Facebook? I had no idea they could be so specific, are there any IT people who can explain it in VEEEEERY simple terms? Does your Facebook remember everything you e ever done?
How do you know this?I've just come accross this thread so don't know if this is known info or not, but consultants at the Trust were raising concerns for quite a while and the directors were telling them to be quiet. They were identifying Lucy has the potential problem at the time of the deaths and they were told to stop raising this or they would be disciplined for bullying her. Management at the hospital did not want to deal with this.
You can download your own data from Facebook and it'll hold everything. Same for insta & snap.is anyone else surprised at the volume and detail of the stuff they’ve got from her Facebook? I had no idea they could be so specific, are there any IT people who can explain it in VEEEEERY simple terms? Does your Facebook remember everything you e ever done?
Yes I saw on tik tok a women who caught her husband out cheating by the Alexa! It records when you've asked Alexa to do something and she replayed the logs and it was a women's voice!Not even just Facebook, your phone remembers everything you’ve done. Some apps can listen to you even when you’re not using them! Everything you’ve typed, pretty much everywhere you’ve been
Think we’re all eager to hear this defence apparently her lawyer has got a few people who shouldn’t be free offThis afternoon I think. I'm very eager to see what they say.
what’s her lawyer’s name? i’m very intrigued by this (i’ve seen a poster mention it a few times).Think we’re all eager to hear this defence apparently her lawyer has got a few people who shouldn’t be free off
Absolutely. I recently got my facebook account maliciously hacked and they posted stuff that got it instantly banned. I was able to request a full copy of my account and all the photos I had posted from them and it was absolutely wild how much data was in the zip file they sent me. Definitely made me reluctant to try to get my account back or rejoin the site. You can even see every single login you have ever made.is anyone else surprised at the volume and detail of the stuff they’ve got from her Facebook? I had no idea they could be so specific, are there any IT people who can explain it in VEEEEERY simple terms? Does your Facebook remember everything you e ever done?
I shall never search any of my ex’s againis anyone else surprised at the volume and detail of the stuff they’ve got from her Facebook? I had no idea they could be so specific, are there any IT people who can explain it in VEEEEERY simple terms? Does your Facebook remember everything you e ever done?
Ooh what program was this?Police have forensic digital teams who are there to forensically examine phones. They can download everything, deleted or otherwise. Recently they have also been able to access encrochats used by massive drug rings which has been difficult. Hence the recent big arrests in this.
i watched the CSI programme that was aired recently and it was so interesting. They could recover cctv that had been deleted using technology to get images of a crime being committed and identify the perps.
most criminals I find are pretty deluded these days if they think they won’t get caught 🥹
I’m going to look it up aswell I’m not sure I’m sure he represented someone who molested his daughter yet is freewhat’s her lawyer’s name? i’m very intrigued by this (i’ve seen a poster mention it a few times).
That’s interesting as I’ve had my Netflix/Disney+/Twitter hacked and all details changed like email address be interesting to see who did itAbsolutely. I recently got my facebook account maliciously hacked and they posted stuff that got it instantly banned. I was able to request a full copy of my account and all the photos I had posted from them and it was absolutely wild how much data was in the zip file they sent me. Definitely made me reluctant to try to get my account back or rejoin the site. You can even see every single login you have ever made.
I know they disclose to each other, I meant bring out other evidence to the jury to contradict what the defence say. Sorry I wasn’t clear what I meant. I just get a thought in my head and type to quickly lolUnfortunately, this won't happen.
Both parties have to disclose all of their evidence to each, including when the prosecution have evidence that could indicate innocence.
If there's anyone intrigued about the processes with evidence and disclosure that have to be followed this is a really useful resource, quite a long read though.
That's great for you but the prosecution has to convince the jury beyond reasonable doubt to secure a murder conviction and in this case it will be quite hard to do that.Not being impatient at all. I know how courts work, I've attended lots of Crown Court trials for lot of heinous crimes, most recently a historic child sexual abuse case. My prediction on the very first day is usually right.
the 3 year old little girl case and pweirdo ring makes me shudder, I hope to absolute god they really were innocent.https://www.exchangechambers.co.uk/people/benjamin-myers-kc/
Her KC. It was shared in a previous thread.
what’s her lawyer’s name? i’m very intrigued by this (i’ve seen a poster mention it a few times).
because of my jobHow do you know this?
Are you asking if they can introduce new evidence?I know they disclose to each other, I meant bring out other evidence to the jury to contradict what the defence say. Sorry I wasn’t clear what I meant. I just get a thought in my head and type to quickly lol
Probably the evidence was circumstantial. The opening prosecutor’s speech was all circumstantial evidence. I think she’s guilty but I also think she will get off because circumstantial evidence is not good enough to convict. I think the police fear this too which is why they’re still working full on gathering new evidence on other deaths.CPS said the evidence wasn't strong enough at the time that's it.
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