I agree, it is allowed and encouraged to have group chats for your area of work. Okay there’s an assumption everything is kept confidential and is mainly used for ward updates or shift swaps etc, but sometimes it is used because people want an update. Sometimes it’s hard going home and switching off, and just getting a quick update can allow that.
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So she has been under suspicion, moved to days, gone back to nights and then had supervision of a student. Okkkk. Some good procedures in that hospital.
Managed to keep up to date with both the court transcripts & this thread today! So fast moving!! Still on the fence. Only because this is a long long process & we have only heard one side or in fact the opening statements & no supporting evidence. I think the expert witnesses will be key to the unreasonable doubt the jury will need before deliberation & a verdict given. Very disturbing statements read out by the prosecution today but that’s their job & it’s how it would be presented in any case brought to court. The fact she searched for families of one of the deceased children on an anniversary is a red flag but this could be because she remembered the child’s passing. I’m not sure I can convince myself that’s true but lots of evidence / timelines haven’t been presented yet. Thank you to the nurses providing a valuable insight. Tattle can often get a bad name but & I think apart from the odd derail everyone has a balanced view. Take care guys & girls. It’s heavy & I have first hand of a babies death in our family when our grandson died of SIDS aged 7 months. I will probably dip in & out of this if my own mental health becomes an issue. As a person working in a court I’m interested in the judicial process.
Oh wow. Again shows targeting though if that’s the case. The whole thing is so shocking and scary. My 6 month old spent a few days in NICU and I can’t imagine how these poor parents must be feeling. You just put all your trust into the staff caring for your baby whilst you’re not there :-(
Originally in 2018, she was arrested for 8 suspected murder and 6 suspected attempted murder, then in 2019, she is rearrested for 8 suspected murder and 9 suspected attempted murder.
Then in 2020 - 2 years after her first arrest she was formally charged with 7 counts of murder and 10 counts of attempted murder. It was originally 8 counts of murder but one of the murder charges were dropped
The poll is very interesting and very telling. By rights it should read: Innocent 100%, because innocent until proven guilty right?
However it sits at 2.6%.
The prosecution is laying out their case, they havent proved anything yet. Thats still to come.
Proves bias is a real thing, conscious or unconscious, it's fundamental human nature. I know we were all answering a question put to us, but did we critically think when answering.
I just find it interesting. Sorry!
I know the unsure percentage is very high. I wonder how this poll will change as the trial goes on. I'm NOT criticising , but I thought I'd share my observations that's all folks!!!
Just an observation.
However it sits at 2.6%.
The prosecution is laying out their case, they havent proved anything yet. Thats still to come.
Proves bias is a real thing, conscious or unconscious, it's fundamental human nature. I know we were all answering a question put to us, but did we critically think when answering.
I just find it interesting. Sorry!
I know the unsure percentage is very high. I wonder how this poll will change as the trial goes on. I'm NOT criticising , but I thought I'd share my observations that's all folks!!!
Just an observation.
I believe the same charges as she is facing now was always murder/attempted
I put unsure but it will likely change. I have my thoughts at the moment but until I hear the full evidence then I can’t be swayed either way.
I’ve sat on a jury before, I find the whole process really interesting.
I’ve sat on a jury before, I find the whole process really interesting.
I put unsure exactly for the reasons you’ve said tbh. I need to see more of the evidence before I make my decision.
Neonatal deaths and FOIs - a Freedom of Information request to Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
I would like to request the following information under the FOIA: 1) A listing in Word or Excel format from of all FOI requests since April 2016 for the following: - Unique FOI ID - Date of FOI request - Description of request, as recorded on the FOI system 2) The number of monthly, since...
FOI request with the number of deaths over a 5 year period. Makes you appreciate how abnormal the number of deaths they had in 2015-2016 were. I’d assumed deaths would happen more frequently on a NICU.
(Haven’t seen whole thread, apologies if already discussed)
*hugs to you* any everybody else who finds you this case overwhelming it truly is dreadful what’s happened
I'd like to know;
- how they came to decide baby A was the 'first' baby allegedly killed by LL.
- the numbers of collapses and deaths in similar circumstances across all years that LL worked there.
- if the other nurses had searched family members of the babies they cared for.
- if LL had picked up extra shifts, putting her statistically present more in the hospital than others.
- if there were any collapses or deaths in the time she was on holiday.
- if there were any collapses or deaths in the time she went on admin duties.
- if there were any collapses or deaths in the night shift babies when she was on day shifts.
- how they came to decide baby A was the 'first' baby allegedly killed by LL.
- the numbers of collapses and deaths in similar circumstances across all years that LL worked there.
- if the other nurses had searched family members of the babies they cared for.
- if LL had picked up extra shifts, putting her statistically present more in the hospital than others.
- if there were any collapses or deaths in the time she was on holiday.
- if there were any collapses or deaths in the time she went on admin duties.
- if there were any collapses or deaths in the night shift babies when she was on day shifts.
Someone said something earlier in the thread that sort of touches on what I've been thinking.
As her garden was dug up, assuming they found evidence I wonder if she had an unexpected miscarriage herself and something clicked in her brain and for whatever reason (jealousy, anger, resentment or believing she was more worthy than the parents she was dealing with) she began to murder the babies. The reason she kept looking back at the parents profiles wasn't necessarily to revel in the havock and cruelty she brought into their lives, but a way for her to get the kind of attention and grief she didn't receive herself?
It seems like a reach, but I can't think what else would be buried in the garden. If it was paperwork etc you could just go to the nearest lake/tip/random office bin to get rid of them fairly untraceabley? What else would she want to hide, but not want to be too far from her?
As her garden was dug up, assuming they found evidence I wonder if she had an unexpected miscarriage herself and something clicked in her brain and for whatever reason (jealousy, anger, resentment or believing she was more worthy than the parents she was dealing with) she began to murder the babies. The reason she kept looking back at the parents profiles wasn't necessarily to revel in the havock and cruelty she brought into their lives, but a way for her to get the kind of attention and grief she didn't receive herself?
It seems like a reach, but I can't think what else would be buried in the garden. If it was paperwork etc you could just go to the nearest lake/tip/random office bin to get rid of them fairly untraceabley? What else would she want to hide, but not want to be too far from her?
Was she released in between these arrests?
If there is a connection to the babies she seemingly targeted/their parents will this be brought up/ reported? I'm just thinking if this makes some of the victims and their families identifiable?
Yeah the first two times she was released on bail, the third time she was formally charged and put on remand in prison x
great post. My son was on NICU 4 months and whilst there there was no deaths. There was definitely babies who took a turn for a worse from no where but all the babies there with us at the same time went home xNeonatal deaths and FOIs - a Freedom of Information request to Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
I would like to request the following information under the FOIA: 1) A listing in Word or Excel format from of all FOI requests since April 2016 for the following: - Unique FOI ID - Date of FOI request - Description of request, as recorded on the FOI system 2) The number of monthly, since...www.whatdotheyknow.com
FOI request with the number of deaths over a 5 year period. Makes you appreciate how abnormal the number of deaths they had in 2015-2016 were. I’d assumed deaths would happen more frequently on a NICU.
(Haven’t seen whole thread, apologies if already discussed)
I’m glad I’m not on trial with many of you on the jury, it seems many have decided guilt before hearing both sides of the story.
The prosecution are doing what they are employed to do, make LL look guilty and saying that the poor children that lost their lives were murdered and that there were attempts to murder others. As tragic as the loss of life and permanent disability is from these events, there is the possibility that there are different reasons for the tragic events and we all should keep an open mind.
I hope the jurors keep this in mind and haven’t decided upon guilt already. Regardless of anything else LL deserves a fair trial.
So far much of what has been presented indicates an increased death rate while LL is on shift, correlation does not mean causation though where statistics occur, so do anomalies.
While many of her actions were unprofessional (texting colleagues, Facebook stalking, taking notes home, etc.) these are all things I’m aware of happening in a healthcare setting.
Lastly, if innocent, the deaths of patients (especially babies) may have deeply impacted her deeply, her looking up the family of a patient that passed as soon as she wakes could possibly just show that it was in her mind and she was sad about it.
The prosecution are doing what they are employed to do, make LL look guilty and saying that the poor children that lost their lives were murdered and that there were attempts to murder others. As tragic as the loss of life and permanent disability is from these events, there is the possibility that there are different reasons for the tragic events and we all should keep an open mind.
I hope the jurors keep this in mind and haven’t decided upon guilt already. Regardless of anything else LL deserves a fair trial.
So far much of what has been presented indicates an increased death rate while LL is on shift, correlation does not mean causation though where statistics occur, so do anomalies.
While many of her actions were unprofessional (texting colleagues, Facebook stalking, taking notes home, etc.) these are all things I’m aware of happening in a healthcare setting.
Lastly, if innocent, the deaths of patients (especially babies) may have deeply impacted her deeply, her looking up the family of a patient that passed as soon as she wakes could possibly just show that it was in her mind and she was sad about it.
This is it. Without knowing the context then we don't know. It might not be as strange as what prosecution are making out to be. Maybe it was a regular thing that staff spoke about the children via text.
Texts are not one sided...somebody may have verbally asked for LL to text an update. We don't know. BUT, if the recipient of the text deemed it inappropriate/ wasn't comfortable/found it odd, again they could have spoke up about it...
I'm just trying to go from both sides here because I really don't know what to think.
Screen shot of interest
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