Lucy Letby case #28

[MmmB777]

I completely agree with the bias aspect and think it comes down to multiple factors, not just their attractiveness (or lack thereof ).

A male suspected of sexual violence isn't hard to believe given that it's predominantly males that commit these offences. Add in to that, that he's in the police which is seen as a position of authority/power, makes it more believable. He had the opportunity to deceive and manipulate. With so much police attention on corruption and misconduct, it was an easy sell to the public.

With LL, a lot of it will come down to the fact she's a female and a nurse. Female serial killers are less common, and less likely to be immediately suspected of multiple murders. Add in that she's a nurse, those in a caring profession, while in a position of power and authority are more linked with a nurturing view rather than being seen as manipulative or deceptive. This makes it much harder for people to go against their initial impressions and bias.

The media have a lot to answer for in how they influence perception. For example, if it was ceremonial swords rather than snow white in her room, she'd be vilified. Dyed black hair, head to toe tattoo's and they'd be trying to say she was into the occult and the babies were sacrifices, just because they can.

Very much enjoying your posts!
Just to add regarding female serial killers..

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

Mate
If I am ever accused of anything, personal or work wise I want you as my solicitor. Total chefs kiss

She’s ace isn’t she.

 

[gigilouxx]

It’s weird isn’t it because if we go back to Wayne cousins, being a police officer, no one really spoke out saying “I don’t believe he could have done this” yet people have done from the bat with LL. Is it because of her job role? The fact she’s female? The fact she’s conventionally attractive & shes white? Is it her victim demographic?
Goes back to the conversations we’ve had on here about there is some psychological research about how “attractive” someone is & how you view them more positively… think Ted Bundy as well, he was “attractive” to many of his victims which is how he managed to lure the ones he did in that method - they didn’t think, even after hearing the news about a killer, someone as attractive as him could be killer. Very interesting research on it if you’re ever bored haha - beauty bias/attractiveness bias

I think it’s because police are often seen as authority, “bad” and there are other ways they can abuse their power which we freely talk about
Nurses are the people labelled as heroes, lifesavers and no one wants to think that someone who’s in that role and dedicates their life to caring for others would ever do something like this. But despite all the appreciation given to hospital staff some are absolute bleeps, and even fewer are horrible people

 

[Tofino]

If she was worrying all the way back in 2016 she knows she murdered those poor babies there's no other reason she would worry about police involvement other than she's guilty as sin. Besides why would an innocent person worry if they had done no wrong as it would be shown said innocent person had done no wrong.

In short lock the witch up and throw away the key. Toodaloo muthafucka as the meme goes lol

Yes I think if I was innocent I would hope the police would clear it up. I would be tit scared of course, because it’s so serious. but that was only if i was being directly accused of something criminal. Her thoughts went to the police before being accused of deliberate harm.

she said she “thought the police would get involved and I would lose my job”

Asked about why she thought the police would get involved, Letby replies: "I don't know, I just panicked."

She said she thought she would be referred to the NMC - [the Nursing and Midwifery Council] - and they would refer it to the police.

That was from police interview. actually did defence cover this yesterday or is this one of the incriminating things they just skipped over??

 

[Nurseali]

Yes of course. But people are literally saying Lucy searching people on Facebook isn’t suspicious because they do it too

but it shouldn’t be ignored she is searching the families repeatedly, some years later, of babies she’s accused of murdering. That is suspicious at this stage, and if she is guilty (which you know I think she is) then it’s incredibly sinister and ghoulish she is doing that!

Totally agree.
I admit I am bad with names but even patients who meant a lot to me I struggle even three months later to remember their full name. I think that is normal for most nurses as otherwise you would burn out if you had so many patients who resonated.

The Facebook searches are such an important part for me as it isn't normal behaviour and to me she was wanting to see grief on their pages. Grief and despair she had caused. It's like a trophy.

 

[Tofino]

Very much enjoying your posts!
Just to add regarding female serial killers..

View attachment 2145909

wow didn’t know half of female serial killers were nurses or in healthcare!!

 

[MmmB777]

wow didn’t know half of female serial killers were nurses or in healthcare!!

Yep. Importantly though, despite nursing roles being overwhelmingly done by females, it’s still male nurses that do this more than female ones! So basically, men are still the biggest guys

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Totally agree.
I admit I am bad with names but even patients who meant a lot to me I struggle even three months later to remember their full name. I think that is normal for most nurses as otherwise you would burn out if you had so many patients who resonated.

The Facebook searches are such an important part for me as it isn't normal behaviour and to me she was wanting to see grief on their pages. Grief and despair she had caused. It's like a trophy.

Tbh I think it depends on the person if it’s normal to remember the names for them. I can remember names of people in my job from ages ago whereas some people I work with can’t remember them from a week ago

 

[Tofino]

I would worry if the police was involved even if there was rumours of them even if I want innocent

she had no reason to worry police would be involved though, if she was innocent, in July 2016. She was redeployed and they wanted her to have clinical supervision and do competencies. They didn’t suspend her because they thought she was deliberately harming babies.

or is it normal for doctors and nurses who are redeployed for possible competency issues to worry about the police getting involved?

 

[AllieBee]

Totally agree.
I admit I am bad with names but even patients who meant a lot to me I struggle even three months later to remember their full name. I think that is normal for most nurses as otherwise you would burn out if you had so many patients who resonated.

The Facebook searches are such an important part for me as it isn't normal behaviour and to me she was wanting to see grief on their pages. Grief and despair she had caused. It's like a trophy.

Yes I agree. And there's also a bit of me that thinks she was hoping for a mention of herself on their pages, the 'wonderful' nurse who tried to save their baby. And also, another bit wonders whether she was checking they weren't suspicious over the way their baby had died. I'm same as you, I don't Facebook search my patients and I don't think this is normal. I have had a couple of patients try to add me on Facebook but I've just ignored their requests. My work is my work and my home life my home life, I aim for total separation as far as I can.

 

[Nurseali]

Tbh I think it depends on the person if it’s normal to remember the names for them. I can remember names of people in my job from ages ago whereas some people I work with can’t remember them from a week ago

True. My ward manager can remember names from years ago .
I do wonder if that's why she kept handovers though to retain the names and other info.

Her memory does seem...err ...well depends who is asking the questions how good her memory is.

 

[TheWitchIsBack]

I’ve been in the guilty camp since the beginning of this trial when Ben said “there sits a woman who says this isn’t her fault” not “there sits a woman who is innocent and wrongly accused” I don’t know why that has always stuck with me, yesterday she contradicted herself many times and gave different answers to those in her police interviews. Ben trying to paint the picture of poor little Lucy didn’t cast any doubt in my mind, in fact it cemented her guilt even more. Talking about her journey to and from court etc is just fluffing, and trying to distract the jury away from what’s important. I’m willing to be proven wrong and have my mind changed but for now I’m not being swayed.

I’d asked about this at the time cause in my mind something tells me that the lawyers aren’t allowed to lie… so for instance if he knows she’s guilty he has to word things in a certain way that gets the point he’s trying to make across without actually telling full blown lies!

Could any of the legal eagles that have joined shed any light on this?

I could just be talking total rit… like Lucy.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I can understand people maybe being unsure until closing arguments (kinda, i mean we're not the jury so no harm in giving your gut feeling) but don't forget absolutely everything that she is going to be asked over the next few days/week by the defence is very carefully curated by a man who is incredibly skilled at his job, and his team of however many people. The defence aren't going to ask anything or make her say anything that they think will make her look guilty. The questions will be vague, they will skip over things (example she didn't clarify anything about the "I did this" note) that don't fit her defence. Then the prosecution will come along and ask whatever they need to know the truth about.

What I found bizzare about her answers to Ben were the contradictions. She's clearly not that smart because a lot of what she said was easily disproven even by her own text messages... like did she forget what she had sent?? Surely not because they had been discussed only a few days, weeks and months prior to her taking the stand.

I just find the defence strange because she is contradicting herself but not being asked by Ben why she is doing that so it's not really being explained why she's giving different answers. I feel like Ben is too afraid to question her incase she drops a clanger and totally incriminates herself but it would help the defence if the contradictions were explained.

Ignoring them just makes her sound like she is blatantly lying and ignoring her own poor behaviour.

 

[What's your point]

It doesn't for me it's established by now she's a full on weirdo who does strange things. There's a lot of weirdos out there who aren't killers. The thing that cements the guilt for me is the stable babies having random collapses, air and insulin injected whilst she was on shift which stopped after she left. If the defence don't pull out a stasticial analysis defence or medical witnesses for the defence imo she's 100 percent guilty. Notes and facebook searches don't sway anything for me.

No me either to be honest, if anything the notes are about the only thing making me doubt her guilt because they to me at least lean heavily towards her feeling guilty because or incompetence rather than malicious acts... but then she shoots herself in the foot by saying in police interviews she didn't make mistakes so .

The medical evidence says it all to me, way more so than notes or Facebook searches.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I’d asked about this at the time cause in my mind something tells me that the lawyers aren’t allowed to lie… so for instance if he knows she’s guilty he has to word things in a certain way that gets the point he’s trying to make across without actually telling full blown lies!

Could any of the legal eagles that have joined shed any light on this?

I could just be talking total rit… like Lucy.

You talking bout the former nurse or that pesky tattle user?

 

[craig84]

new podcast

Episode 31: Lucy Letby Pleads Her Innocence

www.mailplus.co.uk

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

Just in my experience, if there has been a complaint or a death that is going to the coroner then the main worries are usually perception of incompetence and thoroughness of documentation. Your thoughts don’t automatically go to the police because you haven’t done anything malicious. You worry that your team will be criticised, the Trust sued, or if you had made a mistake, that you would have to go to NMC/GMC panel. Why would the police be involved? She knows she has done something malicious. Edited to add, these are selfish worries, your main worry would be have you inadvertently harmed someone or their family?

 

[Tofino]

Dan has a report on his twitter account, it won’t let me link it someone else can maybe try!
But he’s doing a radio report so you get to hear his voice for a change.
At the end he says she could be on the stand for weeks in her defence, before she’s cross examined !

I’ve just listened to this and he said ‘her defence lawyer indicated her evidence may take some weeks’ and then said about going into each case in granular detail. So it sounds very likely that it will in fact be weeks and it will be interesting to see if she does testify 5 days in a row the week after next as judge said court would sit as normal. That will be intense! Anyway, no immediate rush for public gallery is needed it seems!

I can’t see how the case will be finished this month though. It must be June at the earliest now surely!

 

[Serene Serena]

You talking bout the former nurse or that pesky tattle user?

Is she actually a former nurse? Has she been struck off the register already?

 

[F1Grid]

I doubt it because realistically, she could’ve contaminated the bag and caused an overdose with pretty much any drug she had access to as a nurse working in a hospital.

Insulin has been a huge common factor in so many cases though. Beverley Allitt, Colin Norris, Victorino Chua, and now allegedly LL all used insulin. In fact there's only been one nurse murderer in the UK in recent years who hasn't used it.

I feel like pharmacists will likely be asked to keep track of how many vials each unit has, and whether it matches the prescription amount. We know the NICU was apparently going through a lot more than usual during this spree, that probably should have been looked at.