Fair enough! Personally I believe she’s guilty but I’ve been concerned since the start that the evidence that we’ve heard (although as you say there is probably so much more being said in court which isn’t reported) would not be strong enough to convince a jury.
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What are your thoughts over the medical evidence - cause of death/collapses etc. do you think they’ve proven any / all are deliberate deaths/harm? Eg insulin poisoning, liver damage, air found in post mortem etc.
Wish we could watch her give evidence like in America!
Why do these serial killers feel the need to be on the stand?
Also if you thought your actions by mistake had caused one babies death you would be beside yourself and crying tears for the baby not your journey to the court. I don’t think she has normal human feelings.
Why do these serial killers feel the need to be on the stand?
Also if you thought your actions by mistake had caused one babies death you would be beside yourself and crying tears for the baby not your journey to the court. I don’t think she has normal human feelings.
There is so much evidence. It’s taken 6 months for the prosecution. None of the babies were expected to die (I’d only exclude poor baby K possibly) or have life threatening problems out of nowhere.
There are mountains of records to show they were on upward trends with health, that their stats, gasses obs were all ok - they all have to be wrong. Mountains of evidence from witnesses at the hosp ranging from parents, consultants, medics from different hospitals, all explaining that the responses to resus were insane, they’ve never seen things like it before or since, they were shocked, their babies went repeatedly from stable to deaths door, lots of the time it’s when they’ve just decided to go home or get food. Every single one was a shock and unexpected. They have compelling forensic evidence of large amounts of air. Where it’s there in veins, she has just accessed veins. There’s a large bubble of air by baby D’s catheter. There is a line of air down the spine to the rectum. Air comparable with car crashes and overwhelming infection. Where babies were fed by Letby, their stomachs and bowels are inflated like balloons. CPAP doesn’t kill 33 week old 4lb babies on low setting after a couple of days. It doesn’t happen. Or there would be dead babies up and down the country. Prem babies life expectancy would be horrendous.
A lot of the babies had an over 90% chance of survival and would still have been treated at CoCH after the downgrade. So then we’re into possibility vs probability. Even if you want to believe that (and it’s not an insult it’s a fact that if you think Letby is innocent it’s all chance) this is pure coincidence even related to Letby working overtime, you surely have to accept that this all down to her bad luck is really really slim. Her colleagues found it shocking it was all happening to her. She didn’t seem to worry until the very end.
I have seen absolutely nobody explain the triplets deaths? Or what conceivable innocent scenario there is for the insulin? Even if you’d like to say
Letby herself incompetently gave insulin at a lethal dose, inappropriately and without a prescription… this isn’t just negligence, she asks for constant updates about the baby’s hypo all day and night. Nobody did that by accident. It’s not possible and it’s not claimed by defence. The next dose was higher. Someone wanted to finish the job. If you think it could have been the shift leader, who is still a senior neonatal lead, quite frankly that’s on a par with swastika gardens imo!
You’re totally right about the sheets and the Facebook searches, they’re far more easy to explain away although personally I absolutely cannot! Especially when these things are incredibly common in cases of healthcare serial killers.
I find it totally mind boggling that someone could be more compelled by Letby’s waterworks and her saying it’s just normal for her to search people and just had no idea she had hundreds of illegal docs and was just so so upset when she tucked her I’m evil note into her diary.. than all the evidence we’ve heard that these babies were killed.
I would really like to know.. if people are able to accept that these babies were killed or harmed by air embolism, or even if there was a hypothetical case of babies being killed by air embolism, what evidence would you expect to see that is not in this case?
- fleeting embolism rashes
- pale and unusual mottling
- unusual and inexplicable air at PM
- pain, screaming, signs of discomfort
- breathing and chest wall moving but heart stopping
- strange responses to resus - as if something has passed through and begin to breathe again.
-poor outcomes, death, brain damage
- sudden deterioration
- no soft signs of infection, on antibiotics, recovering
- prominent veins
- one person having accessed circulation or been found alone with the patient before the event.
- one person frequently around the collapses
If they had let her get dressed she might have had an opportunity to destroy evidence while retrieving clothes. She would also want privacy but I imagine a policewoman would have to accompany her, and she wouldn’t like that either. Possibly anyway, I don’t really know.
Get over yourself LL, you’re a potential criminal now.
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There is no way the police wouldn’t let her put a pair of jeans and a sweatshirt on before taking her down to the station. I suspect her “ pyjamas “ were maybe joggers and a tee shirt but for the dramatic sympathy effect she called them her pyjamas. A police officer would of been with her in her bedroom while she got changed so no opportunity to do anything.
It’s all just bull for the jury.
It’s all just bull for the jury.
^ Exactly ^
Perfectly put as ever @MmmB777
Perfectly put as ever @MmmB777
I don’t think foul play has been proven by any stretch. I find it really difficult to believe she just chopped and changed her method for no apparent reason and was still able to barely leave a trace, I think some of what they allege surely couldn’t have been initially missed. The insulin is a great example tbh, because as I’ve said before they had the same evidence back then and they addressed the situation one way or another at that time. They definitely didn’t think anybody deliberately harmed that child, just given the setting (hospital constantly monitoring the victims) and amount of charges I really would expect a little bit more in terms of medical evidence
I bow to your greater knowledge.
Anyway I think her boo hooing about being treated like a potential criminal is very entitled.
You’re an alleged murderer hun.
Not that I don’t think alleged suspects and prisoners should be treated fairly. They obviously should.
Mic drop.
Given the fact it was a 6am knock by the police and the state of her house after it sounds like a raid type of scenario so I do believe the bit about pyjamas, but it’s not generating sympathy for me, her defence isn’t defencing
I’m not taken in by her tears, they only seem to fall for herself. I look forward to her being cross-examined.
She chopped and changed so that things would be believable and she wouldn’t get caught. She literally basically instantly killed baby A, how many times could she do that even with many differing people on shift? She chopped and changed in order to play on conditions babies had. And I expect because she was having fun.
So you put more weight on how they interpreted the insulin than the actual results that show somebody was poisoned?
Her actions weren’t exactly missed though were they? You’ve heard that by baby D, Dr B was actively trying to establish what had been happening and actively tried to engage with management about the correlation of Letby being around all these babies which was noticed by a colleague from Liverpool women’s. His concerns were repeatedly dismissed even after the deaths of two healthy triplets, the second of which had had absolutely every thing scrutinised and monitored after the sudden death of his brother. And yes you’re right, they had all those concerns before even realising somebody had been poisoning babies with insulin.
What do you think caught Beverley Allitt out on the insulin charges she faced, that is different to what is catching Letby out? All Shipman’s deaths of old ladies at home when he was there were treated as non suspicious by huge amounts of people for years. Although many had an inclining and it was practically a joke, so many of these killers even have nicknames related to how much death seems to surround them! Cullen’s victims were accepted natural deaths until people persistently said it was poisoning. Even in The Nurse, the doctor was more ready to accept that a man had committed suicide by raiding the drugs cabinet at the hospital than accept a nurse had given a lethal dose of non prescribed diazepam.
I thought they might be able to avoid striking her off if she was found NG cos she’ll have no hours at all since she was remanded. I do think they’d find a way though if not.
They're different colours I believe!Now that Tigger and Smudge have been confirmed to be the cats, do we think the cat instagram is hers?
Also, I want the prosecution to ask her more about Nonameplease ask her if she shagged him! Tattle wants to know.
But they haven’t shown this during the trial, have they?
They should read this out just before the jury go to deliberate...bravo!
We should get mmmbop to go outside court with a loudspeaker
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